zombywoof Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 .. . it is an archtop. I keep thinking I am riding with the angels when it comes to Gibsons as I never seem to have to go looking for them, they just find their way to my doorstep. This one has been in and out of my life for a while now. It is an L-12. Can't make out the first number on the FON but I have been told it is a 1938 which seems right. The guitar has remained in the same family since purchased new. Basically the guitar is an L-5 in different clothes so near the top of the Gibson archtop food chain. Very art deco looking. I believe this ws the first Gibson to be adorned with the now iconic split parallelogram inlays on the board. Beautifully made. Surprisingly modern feeling full C neck. The condition is good. It was a working musician's guitar so shows some wear and tear. The tuners have been changed out and possibly the bridge. It has one tight crack down on the butt probably caused by somebody putting it down on the end pin too hard. Comes in its original harshell Geib case. Here is the rub. This guitar has been strung with lights, medium/lights and mediums. Even tried flatwounds on it. It has been fun playing around with it to see what I could pull out of the guitar but all in all, forgetting the flatwounds, while it has sweetened up and throws out a nice round low end and some real punchy mids the upper end still sounds brittle. If anything, it sounds at its best in open tunings. In the end though, I just can't seem to make peace with an f-hole archtop. I still have time to putz around with it but I am guessing the attraction is going to remain purely physical. Such is life. Anyway here are a couple of quick pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 I can't "make peace" with them either, although I have been in love with them ever since I first saw one in a spanish guitar lesson book when I was about 7 or 8. I've had dozens. I couldn't get a pretty note out of any one of them. I've been told it takes a special hand to get the sound out of one. Maybe so. Not under any delusions anymore, but I sure wouldn't mind having an old Epi Zenith or L48 kicking around just for when the thirst strikes for that archtop tactile feedback that nothing else will slake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Please send all unloved and neglected archtops to: L5Larry c/o Greyhound Bus Station St. Louis, Missouri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayyj Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 I went out looking for a good archtop a few years back. Tried a dozen or so across several shops in Seattle, including a few Gibsons i really wanted to love and I'm pretty sure including an L12. The winners were both instrument I wouldn't have expected to go for, and both budget models: an Epiphone Blackstone and a fancy Gibson made Recording King with quilted back and sides. The RK looked gorgeous, the Epi sonething of a mess with a stripped top. At the end of the day though, the Epi won - and it was the same shop as the L12 so I got to try them side by side. The experience left me compketely bewildered as to what should constitute a good archtop, and very glad I went somewhere I could play a lot in one day rather than choosing something on the basis of spec. I don't play the Epi a great deal, but it's one I'll hang onto - every so often the urge for some Paris Swing takes me and the Epi does it better than anything else I've tried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 I am guessing the attraction is going to remain purely physical. Hmm - In this case, that might be enough! What a beauty. And is it X-braced? The best sounding archtop I've ever owned was a '30s Gibson-made Wards with X-bracing on a carved solid spruce top. Very responsively tight sound, great for fingerpicking. Second best was a 1948 L-48 with a solid pressed mahogany top & flat (braced) solid mahogany back. Seems like there's no rhyme or reason to them, so you never know where a satisfying tone might be hidden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 No sense at all. Two of my better sounding archtops from the past were a German Hoyer 16" plywood box and a Hobner (made in India) that...I dunno, was made from pallets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 I've been told it takes a special hand to get the sound out of one. Maybe so. That is what I am being told - that you can't flail away at an archtop like you would a flattop. It requires a certain touch to get the best they got to give. This is one of those guitars I really want to like but just can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 First, allow me to second Larry's comment - except the address would be a bit different. Second, Archtop acoustics were intentionally designed for the sort of sound you describe; they work marvelously with old style mikes and recording equipment. But on the other hand, the shift to mag pickups and different recording and radio mikes and equipment made them ideal candidates for electrifying. http://www.archtop.com/ac_access.html This is a site where they have batches of mag and even a piezo that require functionally no changes to the original instrument, but can give great "archtop jazz" sound. OTOH, I think that some folks who were brought up with "board" or even semi-hollow thin bodies may find a full-bodied guitar less than comfortable to play. It does take a bit of a different way of holding and a different physical geometry while playing. Me, I prefer that feel. Anyway, it's a gorgeous old guitar that deserves a loving home. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 You DO have to play them arch tops different!!!They are a strange beast, but worth it to find the techniques to get them to sound good….as a flat top player, YOU will have to chaNGE…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 http://www.archtop.com/ac_access.html This is a site where they have batches of mag and even a piezo that require functionally no changes to the original instrument, but can give great "archtop jazz" sound. Being old and set in my ways if I decided to grab the guitar a Dermond monkey on a stick pickup would be in my future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 You DO have to play them arch tops different!!!They are a strange beast, but worth it to find the techniques to get them to sound good….as a flat top player, YOU will have to chaNGE…. I keep a wonderig how much the fact that I don't use a pick and only my fingers is coming into play here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Zomby... I'm strictly a fingerpicker on my archtops nowadays. I used the antique Harmony single pup archtop flatpicking for a country/rock band I played in for a year or so, but otherwise... I think the archtop does tend to work best as an electric. I had one of the Dearmond pups on a stick back in the late '60s and used it to electrify an archtop I'd converted to a seven-string - doubled "G" as on a 12. Used it playing rock. Long story on it all. I think I may have it somewhere in a box, but don't ask where. I lost track of it probably seven or eight moves ago. OTOH, I think on a guitar such as yours, I'd today go for a floating pup hanging from the pickguard and with the "hidden" volume and tone controls. The only advantage to the old "stick" setup (mine was the fancy one with a volume and tone control, btw) is that it could be placed nearer the bridge. Frankly it was more than trebly enough closer to the fingerboard. I'd add that the old Harmony had the pup at the fingerboard, and an even shorter than usual scale that should have made it even more emphasize the lower end of tone, but still had plenty of treble for me. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Nice one, ZW! Send it on over if you don't want it! Down here in the anti-deco cheap seats we have a new photo or 2 of my '35 L50 Black Special#4 / L50, with the reversible installed ebony Schatten Archtop bridge with pickup in it.... With the archtop playing, ignore all the previous advice and treat it like a flatty or you will get confused - imagine yourself as John Lennon playing it instead of Wes. Next step to archtop love is to play a cowboy E chord, but BRUSH upstrokes continuously. When working, add open E string with thumb. Then do the same with cowboy-ish D chord! [omg] Brittle sound - get a friend to play it 5 or 6 feet in front of you, and then do some recordings with a sm57! Photos: BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 Hey BK, is that the original pickguard on that guitar? It looks downright classy against the black. I am with some others here in that for whatever reason I tend to like the sound put out by el cheapo archtops like the Silvertones and Kays better than the more expensive ones. Maybe the pressed tops are just better suited to my approach. Don't have a clue. I have never been much for advice when it comes to guitars or playing. I do, however, appreciate others chiming in (expecially when it validates what I am feeling)and while there is a certain amouht of flexibility reqired moving from guitar to guitar there are limits. I may have reached mine with an archtop. The problem is while f-hole archtops frustrate me they also intgrigue the heck out of me. And it would be cool to maybe get into some Ted Bogan-esque sock rhythm guitar. But no matter what, those boys at Gibson sure knew how to put one of these things together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Hey BK, is that the original pickguard on that guitar? It looks downright classy against the black. It is AFAIK - the other Black Specials I have seen on the internet have the same pickguard.... I have a ES125 for electric archtop duties, so I wanted this L-50 to be 'acoustic' for country blues - the Schatten pickup is very good and I can use flat-top strings (currently a set from my large box of Gibson MB12s), which makes me feel more at 'home' playing acoustically.... The strings that came with it were truly abyssmal for me (new strings and setup by Elderly). I struggled and had it setup by my local guy with the pickup. Happy camper now! Would I spend more on an L5 or L12? Nope! Not for what I play. BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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