Lowering tailpiece damages finish?

[PB26]

I’m trying to figure out if the techs at my dealer ruined the finish on my new SG, or if this is something I have to accept given the adjustments I asked them to make.

 

Here’s the deal. Last month I decide to switch to Gibson, so I buy two 2013 SGs -- brand new, off the shelf at a Gibson dealer. I get one for standard tuning (black) and one for C# drop tuning (white). I ask for 11-49 strings on the white one.

 

I take the black one home and leave the white one at the shop to get set up. When I pick up the white one, it looks like someone took an ice pick to the area where the tailpiece bolts onto the body (see pic below).

 

I ask them what happened, because the guitar was flawless when I pulled it off the shelf. In a nutshell this is the answer I get: they had to lower the tailpiece to increase the break angle, because they needed to add tension to make up for the fact that the guitar is drop tuned all the way down to C#. Apparently, the bushings aren’t installed flush with the top of the body, and as they turned the screws to lower the tailpiece, the threads mashed up the surrounding finish. The wood is also chewed.

 

This is a reputable outfit I’m dealing with here, so while I was very disappointed (because I’m picky about the appearance of my gear), I sucked it up and went on my way. The guitar sounds incredible, I should note.

 

Anyway, a buddy I haven’t seen in a long time has me over for a jam session this weekend, and when I show him the damage to the finish, he says I was crazy to let this go. This guy’s been playing for 30 years and has 20 top-shelf guitars in his stable, so I trust his judgement. He suggested I come on here and see what others have to say.

 

Let me know what you guys think. I’m hoping also that someone from Gibson will see this after the holiday is over and chime in on what’s going on. I honestly have a hard time believing that on a Gibson guitar it’s normal for a routine adjustment like that to cause this kind of damage.

 

[BobF_]

I wouldn't accept it.

[capmaster]

Your buddy is right. Anybody adjusting the tailpiece will have to take care for the finish. Moreover, tightening the bolts is likely to pull out the bushings.

 

In my opinion, and considering the final adjustment, an absolute beginner screwed the posts down all the way. The rest of their story is just pretending they were forced to make your nice guitar a construction area.

[PB26]

Thanks for the replies. Guess I shouldn't have been so accommodating (or gullible) when I picked it up. Not a happy camper at the moment.

[capmaster]

Any reputable dealer's workshop would feel responsible for that even if you didn't insist on documenting your acceptance upon protest. I think it is best to go back and talk about repair without charge and a refund for the diminition in value.

 

In case you don't find an agreement satisfying for you, it could be useful telling them that you intend publishing the dealer's name and reporting the incident to the Gibson Customer Service. Perhaps this makes them ready to negotiate.

[PB26]

Any reputable dealer's workshop would feel responsible for that even if you didn't insist on documenting your acceptance upon protest. I think it is best to go back and talk about repair without charge and a refund for the diminition in value.

 

In case you don't find an agreement satisfying for you, it could be useful telling them that you intend publishing the dealer's name and reporting the incident to the Gibson Customer Service. Perhaps this makes them ready to negotiate.

 

Yes, I'll continue to hold back on naming names publicly on the assumption that I can get this resolved. But if someone from Gibson asks me privately I will let them know which dealer it was. The person who messed this up knows it and should be ashamed of letting this guitar leave the shop in that condition.

[capmaster]

Yes, I'll continue to hold back on naming names publicly on the assumption that I can get this resolved. But if someone from Gibson asks me privately I will let them know which dealer it was. The person who messed this up knows it and should be ashamed of letting this guitar leave the shop in that condition.

Yes, definitely, despite of all their business talk.

[L5Larry]

Hold on now. The so-called damage occurred in the course of doing work at the request of the owner to make the guitar playable in a very non-standard setup. C# tuning with .011 gauge strings is a ridiculous request by any guitar design or setup parameters.

 

To make a set of 11's stay in the saddles at that slack of a tuning, the stopbar had to be lowered. The fact the bushings sit slightly below flush is an accepted variance in mfg and assembly.

 

I see no negligence here, the guitar was not dropped or broken, a tool did not slip, etc. The guitar was "marked" as a result of fulfilling a direct request by the customer, to set the guitar up for 11's in C# tuning.

 

The remedy for this is simply "clean up" the area by removing the rest of the cracked paint and leaving a nice round beveled area down to the bushing. Do this on both sides and it will look like it was made that way.

[PB26]

Hold on now. The so-called damage occurred in the course of doing work at the request of the owner to make the guitar playable in a very non-standard setup. C# tuning with .011 gauge strings is a ridiculous request by any guitar design or setup parameters.

 

To make a set of 11's stay in the saddles at that slack of a tuning, the stopbar had to be lowered. The fact the bushings sit slightly below flush is an accepted variance in mfg and assembly.

 

I see no negligence here, the guitar was not dropped or broken, a tool did not slip, etc. The guitar was "marked" as a result of fulfilling a direct request by the customer, to set the guitar up for 11's in C# tuning.

 

The remedy for this is simply "clean up" the area by removing the rest of the cracked paint and leaving a nice round beveled area down to the bushing. Do this on both sides and it will look like it was made that way.

 

If I understand you correctly, then, what you're saying is that you can't change the height of the tailpiece on a 2013 SG without causing very unsightly damage. Note that it's totally irrelevant if you're correct in suggesting that my set-up request was unreasonable. Why? Because of course people raise or lower the tailpiece for all kinds of reasons, which presumably is why Gibson makes it adjustable. So again, your claim amounts to saying you shouldn't move that tailpiece for whatever reason unless you want things to get ugly.

 

And that brings me back to the original question implied in line #1 of this thread: Is it possible that on a guitar of this caliber, you can't move the tailpiece without wrecking the finish?

[L5Larry]

Iommi plays C# and uses 9's and never had an issue.

 

Oh, excuse me, I didn't realize this was a Tony Iommi fanboy thread!

 

And by the way, have you talked to Tony recently about his setups, played his guitars, or looked under his stopbars for paint damage? Upon a quick google search, it seems that the photos of guitars that Tony is actually playing (versus just posing with), are mostly wrap-around bridges.

 

Anyway, as I said before, the fix-it is simply to ream out the area of damaged paint!

[jaygl]

Take it back. It's completely unacceptable for the tech to have damaged the guitar like that.

[Gontur]

Hold on now. The so-called damage occurred in the course of doing work at the request of the owner to make the guitar playable in a very non-standard setup. C# tuning with .011 gauge strings is a ridiculous request by any guitar design or setup parameters.

 

To make a set of 11's stay in the saddles at that slack of a tuning, the stopbar had to be lowered. The fact the bushings sit slightly below flush is an accepted variance in mfg and assembly.

 

I see no negligence here, the guitar was not dropped or broken, a tool did not slip, etc. The guitar was "marked" as a result of fulfilling a direct request by the customer, to set the guitar up for 11's in C# tuning.

 

The remedy for this is simply "clean up" the area by removing the rest of the cracked paint and leaving a nice round beveled area down to the bushing. Do this on both sides and it will look like it was made that way.

 

?!?!? Have you ever played a guitar before ?? C# tuning with 0.11 ridiculous?????

I usually play my SG in drop C, 0.11-0.54 string gauge. Setup? It took 15 min to my luthier. Guitar plays flawlessly and no damage to the nitro-lacquer finish.

[Pesh]

Take it back, for sure. Repair and refund, or replacement guitar! A proper tech, as said above, wouldn't allow this.

[EVOL!]

Yes, take it back, let them know this is unacceptable, and ask them to make it right.

[capmaster]

Hold on now. The so-called damage occurred in the course of doing work at the request of the owner to make the guitar playable in a very non-standard setup. C# tuning with .011 gauge strings is a ridiculous request by any guitar design or setup parameters.

 

To make a set of 11's stay in the saddles at that slack of a tuning, the stopbar had to be lowered. The fact the bushings sit slightly below flush is an accepted variance in mfg and assembly.

 

I see no negligence here, the guitar was not dropped or broken, a tool did not slip, etc. The guitar was "marked" as a result of fulfilling a direct request by the customer, to set the guitar up for 11's in C# tuning.

 

The remedy for this is simply "clean up" the area by removing the rest of the cracked paint and leaving a nice round beveled area down to the bushing. Do this on both sides and it will look like it was made that way.

Oh, excuse me, I didn't realize this was a Tony Iommi fanboy thread!

 

And by the way, have you talked to Tony recently about his setups, played his guitars, or looked under his stopbars for paint damage? Upon a quick google search, it seems that the photos of guitars that Tony is actually playing (versus just posing with), are mostly wrap-around bridges.

 

Anyway, as I said before, the fix-it is simply to ream out the area of damaged paint!

?!?!? Have you ever played a guitar before ?? C# tuning with 0.11 ridiculous?????

I usually play my SG in drop C, 0.11-0.54 string gauge. Setup? It took 15 min to my luthier. Guitar plays flawlessly and no damage to the nitro-lacquer finish.

Let's think reasonably about it. C# tuning using .011" - .049" will lead to string tensions close to .009" - .042" in standard E tuning. What's wrong with that?

 

Looking at the second picture in the OP reveals that screwing the posts all the way down was nothing else than a bad mistake. I go even further and dare saying it had nothing to do with the setup. Some clueless person wanted to tighten them instead of adjusting.

[PageZOSO]

Let's think reasonably about it. C# tuning using .011" - .049" will lead to string tensions close to .009" - .042" in standard E tuning. What's wrong with that?

 

Looking at the second picture in the OP reveals that screwing the posts all the way down was nothing else than a bad mistake. I go even further and dare saying it had nothing to do with the setup. Some clueless person wanted to tighten them instead of adjusting.

 

 

I agree that he requested work to be done on his guitar..........either way you look at it he didn't request them to damage the guitar. If it was me I would bring the guitar back and tell them that you are not pleased with the damage that occurred during the setup and what do you intend on doing about rectifying it.

 

At the end of the day it is a guitar and their meant to be played and scratched. I enjoy playing all my Gibsons, Fenders etc..BUT I want to be the first to GIVE THEM LOVE SCARS.

[PB26]

Thanks again for all the replies. I guess next step is to raise the matter with the dealer, which I don't feel as weird doing now since so many of you are suggesting this should not have happened.

[L5Larry]

If it was me I would bring the guitar back and tell them that you are not pleased with the damage that occurred during the setup and what do you intend on doing about rectifying it.

 

Nobody has proposed any solutions, or even suggestions, to the OP's original quandary, other than me.

 

Whining, *****ing and complaining IS NOT A SOLUTION! Saying it's somebody else's fault, and somebody else's problem IS NOT A SOLUTION!

 

Just exactly what do you think is the remedy is?

 

Do you think the guitar should be replaced because of less than 1/4 square inch of chipped paint under the stopbar (whenever I pick up a stoptail Gibson, the first thing I do is make sure there's paint around the stopbar bushings)? Maybe a full refinish (which would devalue the guitar by 50%)?

 

Do you have any suggestions? Turn this thread into a dialog of ideas and solutions, instead of a whine fest.

[capmaster]

Any reputable dealer's workshop would feel responsible for that even if you didn't insist on documenting your acceptance upon protest. I think it is best to go back and talk about repair without charge and a refund for the diminition in value.

 

In case you don't find an agreement satisfying for you, it could be useful telling them that you intend publishing the dealer's name and reporting the incident to the Gibson Customer Service. Perhaps this makes them ready to negotiate.

Nobody has proposed any solutions, or even suggestions, to the OP's original quandary, other than me.

...

Do you have any suggestions? Turn this thread into a dialog of ideas and solutions, ...

Quoted above an early post of mine into this thread. Reading carefully will reveal it's full of ideas and solutions. B)

[SoundMaster]

Original post deleted by author.

[jaygl]

Nobody has proposed any solutions, or even suggestions, to the OP's original quandary, other than me.

 

Whining, *****ing and complaining IS NOT A SOLUTION! Saying it's somebody else's fault, and somebody else's problem IS NOT A SOLUTION!

 

Just exactly what do you think is the remedy is?

 

Do you think the guitar should be replaced because of less than 1/4 square inch of chipped paint under the stopbar (whenever I pick up a stoptail Gibson, the first thing I do is make sure there's paint around the stopbar bushings)? Maybe a full refinish (which would devalue the guitar by 50%)?

 

Do you have any suggestions? Turn this thread into a dialog of ideas and solutions, instead of a whine fest.

I'm pretty sure "take it back as it's unaceptable" would indeed qualify as advice on what to do................and yes, saying it's someone else's fault and to take it back, is the solution as it clearly was(the tech's fault)........

[PB26]

 

 

2. Damage is clearly present beyond the little 1/8th inch or so circumference of 'loose' finish (I like to peel it off). Therefore, it is likely

that the top of the stud itself dug into the finish.

 

 

 

Yes, the wood itself is actually chipped/damaged, and you may well be right about the cause. I think I'm actually going to send the dealer this thread to look over.

[sgplayers]

This is appalling to think a Luthier would do this in the first place. drop c and the 11-49 is what I use on my white S-G also and I have not had any problems like this. They should of told you this kind of damage could happen . but they would be wrong. I know how you feel about ethics and not telling their name but they deserve what they get for this.

[rct]

WoW. Actually taking it out of the case and playing an hour a day will do more damage than that in a month. I wish that was all that was wrong with some of mine.

 

rct

[BigKahune]

.

If you love the way the guitar plays and sounds, use some touch up paint and play it.

 

If the guitar ain't doin' for ya, return it for a replacement.

 

 

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