Jump to content
Gibson Brands Forums

Donovan J45 Signature Model


mojoworking

Recommended Posts

Lawdy, I do hate the cherry burst.

 

aaaaarrrriiihhh, , , hilarious, , , you cannot be serious zomb*. .

 

Nick - I see exchange of different flavors and tastes as a sign of health and sanity. Bursts, squares/slopes, sandwishes, songs etc. - I'm sure you know.

 

 

 

*well, thinking about it, I'm not too keen on the old pinkish/yellows either - but when they turn warm and brown, , , like bread, , , , they totally groove. . .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 57
  • Created
  • Last Reply

 

 

*well, thinking about it, I'm not too keen on the old pinkish/yellows either - but when they turn warm and brown, , , like bread, , , , they totally groove. . .

 

They were pretty garish when they were new. When my poor old J-45 came back from Gibson in 1968 with a new top in cherry sunburst, I hated it so much I stripped it and kept it disguised as a J-50 for 30+ years until I found someone who could replicate the original 1948-'50 'burst.

 

If I had kept the cherryburst, it might have mellowed down to that gorgeous faded ruddy yellow/brown that we now see on Gibsons from that period today. Coupled with the original dark mahogany back and sides (which it still has, and which Gibson didn't touch in 1968 except for a light overspray), that could have been a pretty stunning combination.

 

But who was willing to wait decades for that to happen, even if we knew it would?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Every time I think of Donovan I think of that scene in "Don't Look Back" in the hotel room with Donovan's people touting him as the "new Dylan." Donovan goes through "To Sing a Song for You" with his people smiling and applauding thinking the crown was about to be passed. Dylan literally grabs the guitar and launches into "It's All Over Now, Baby Blue." The look on Donovan's and his people's faces says it all.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Every time I think of Donovan I think of that scene in "Don't Look Back" in the hotel room with Donovan's people touting him as the "new Dylan." Donovan goes through "To Sing a Song for You" with his people smiling and applauding thinking the crown was about to be passed. Dylan literally grabs the guitar and launches into "It's All Over Now, Baby Blue." The look on Donovan's and his people's faces says it all.

 

 

 

Donovan was just starting out when that was filmed and like everyone else he was in awe of Dylan. He soon outgrew the "new Dylan" image given to him by the music press and turned into one of the most important pop/psych/folk artists of the late 60s.

 

Back to Gibsons: also in the hotel room when that was filmed (at the Savoy Hotel in London) is John Renbourn, a master folk blues guitarist and a long-time Gibson J50 user. He can be seen on sofa with banjo player Derroll Adams

 

front.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Zombywoof's vid: WHAT was that tug of war going on at t = 2:16? After Zimmy got his guitar back, the master of iron fist lyrics wrapped in a velvet glove shoots a quick dagger glance at Donovan after delivering the 1st line of 'Baby Blue ("You must leave now, take what you need, you think will last").

 

Back to guitars: Nice of Bob to have his stripped & refin'ed Nick Lucas 13 fret as the pass-around guitar.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To Emin7's reference to the transition in "Atlantis" at t = 2:28, it reminded me of the signature riff in The Stone's 19th Nervous Breakdown, slightly, with an extra note or 2, a key change, and a dissolve. Which ironically occurs in this vid at 2:28:

, which was apparently lifted from Bo Diddley's
.

 

Back to sunbursts: the variety is part of their appeal. If it weren't for the cloudy, almost maudlin Norlin bursts of the '70's, it would be difficult to appreciate the intense, saturated Iced Teas & Cherry's.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Every time I think of Donovan I think of that scene in "Don't Look Back" in the hotel room with Donovan's people touting him as the "new Dylan." Donovan goes through "To Sing a Song for You" with his people smiling and applauding thinking the crown was about to be passed. Dylan literally grabs the guitar and launches into "It's All Over Now, Baby Blue." The look on Donovan's and his people's faces says it all.

 

 

 

That's almost painful to watch.

 

For many of us, this was one of Dylan's first "great periods", about the same time as "Mr. Tambourine Man" (probably my all-time favorite Dylan song). The song Donovan was doing was self-consciously Dylan-esque. It's a sweet song, but not remotely in the same league as what Dylan was doing then.

 

As smack-downs go, this one was pretty definitive. Don't get me wrong. I like a lot of Donovan songs, going back all the way to "Catch the Wind", which I used to do pretty early on. But Donovan as the next Dylan? Nah, not even close.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I under no circumstance see myself in a heated debate whether the one D is bigger or more important than the other D.

 

That one D is bigger and everything else than the other - but that's not what it's about, gentlemen.

 

In broader perspective the 2 D's aren't even in the same league, , , but then again if we look back on when they first unfolded, they both stood tall. Perhaps then the other D even put out weightier stuff those years when the first D went home to get plenty of rest and family-life pulled his teeth out (lords bless him).

 

Regarding size and artistic weight, don't forget the one D was 5 years older than the second D. 5 years is A LOT when you are young as we all might recall. There were lots of reasons for admiration. But the fact the one D actually got a bit anxious about the second D only shows how good second D was. And he was indeed a splendid folk-guitarist and singer, , , writer too, , , especially for his age - COME ON !

 

I refuse to see the hotel-room scene again as it has become a symbol of a rivaly that is so utterly irrelevant today. Yes, the first D 'won', , , but then soon was beaten by Y's search for a Heart of Gold, , , or the C.S. Moon Shadow or. . .

 

Of course when it comes down to it, no one touches the first mighty D and (his Quinn).

But now let the smaller D get some air - he deserves it, , , and as I stated here before - and wrote to my pale the other day - covered ground the first D never touched :

 

Mother Nature, outer space and nothing less than Eros himself. Quite interesting if you think it over.

 

That said, I saw a first D exhibition of paintings this summer - the third room was nothing but heavy erotica. . .

Alrite, first D - - - D for daring - debute and delirious ,-) Congratulations !

 

@62burst - I hear what you mean, but find the comparison rather rustic.

That type of break belongs to everyone - already did back then. But the repetitive free-form outro (which also belongs to everyone) continues the Hey Jude idea, doesn't it.

 

@mojoworking - never was aware of the Renbourn detail. Maybe I'll revisit the clip anyway - thanx for the tip.

 

Now let us rejoice and sing and ring. .

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They were pretty garish when they were new. When my poor old J-45 came back from Gibson in 1968 with a new top in cherry sunburst, I hated it so much I stripped it and kept it disguised as a J-50 for 30+ years until I found someone who could replicate the original 1948-'50 'burst.

 

If I had kept the cherryburst, it might have mellowed down to that gorgeous faded ruddy yellow/brown that we now see on Gibsons from that period today. Coupled with the original dark mahogany back and sides (which it still has, and which Gibson didn't touch in 1968 except for a light overspray), that could have been a pretty stunning combination.

 

But who was willing to wait decades for that to happen, even if we knew it would?

 

Growing up in England in the 60s I had no idea the venerable J45 had already been around for years in traditional variations of brown sunburst.

 

The first one I ever saw (outside of b&w pictures of old country pickers) was Donovan's and I'm sure that cherry sunburst was the ONLY colour it was available in during the period 62-69, when it was replaced by the square shouldered version. The identical J50 was available concurrently in blonde of course for just a little more money.

 

I also had no idea about adjustable bridges at the time and learned afterwards that some players didn't like them. I recall that virtually all Gibson jumbos had adjustable bridges in the 60s and it was being touted as some kind of advancement (which it was, at least as far as being able to change the action easily).

 

So my first introduction to Gibson's workhorse jumbo was Donovan's cherry sunburst J45 and to this day whenever I see one I'm 16 again and the summer of love is about to happen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Growing up in England in the 60s I had no idea the venerable J45 had already been around for years in traditional variations of brown sunburst.

 

The first one I ever saw (outside of b&w pictures of old country pickers) was Donovan's and I'm sure that cherry sunburst was the ONLY colour it was available in during the period 62-69, when it was replaced by the square shouldered version. The identical J50 was available concurrently in blonde of course for just a little more money.

 

I also had no idea about adjustable bridges at the time and learned afterwards that some players didn't like them. I recall that virtually all Gibson jumbos had adjustable bridges in the 60s and it was being touted as some kind of advancement (which it was, at least as far as being able to change the action easily).

 

So my first introduction to Gibson's workhorse jumbo was Donovan's cherry sunburst J45 and to this day whenever I see one I'm 16 again and the summer of love is about to happen.

 

But you must have been aware of The Fabs J-160E's - were you able to tell the difference. .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

But you must have been aware of The Fabs J-160E's - were you able to tell the difference. .

 

Oh yeah, but although the body shape is the same, the differences are many. I ended up buying a J160E in the late 60s and to say I was disappointed is an understatement.

 

As you probably know the J160E has a big block of wood inside the body at the neck joint where the pick-up is mounted and this kills it acoustically. Unamplified it must be half the volume of a J45 or J50. The Fabs connection gives it a high nostalgic appeal for me though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh yeah, but although the body shape is the same, the differences are many. I ended up buying a J160E in the late 60s and to say I was disappointed is an understatement.

Thought something like that might have happened. .

 

 

As you probably know the J160E has a big block of wood inside the body at the neck joint where the pick-up is mounted and this kills it acoustically. Unamplified it must be half the volume of a J45 or J50. The Fabs connection gives it a high nostalgic appeal for me though.

 

I do -

 

Apart from that, it's time for you to finally get a J-45 home, no kiddin' . . .

 

Enjoy dreaming

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I under no circumstance see myself in a heated debate whether the one D is bigger or more important than the other D.

 

That one D is bigger and everything else than the other - but that's not what it's about, gentlemen.

 

In broader perspective the 2 D's aren't even in the same league, , , but then again if we look back on when they first unfolded, they both stood tall. Perhaps then the other D even put out weightier stuff those years when the first D went home to get plenty of rest and family-life pulled his teeth out (lords bless him).

 

Regarding size and artistic weight, don't forget the one D was 5 years older than the second D. 5 years is A LOT when you are young as we all might recall. There were lots of reasons for admiration. But the fact the one D actually got a bit anxious about the second D only shows how good second D was. And he was indeed a splendid folk-guitarist and singer, , , writer too, , , especially for his age - COME ON !

 

I refuse to see the hotel-room scene again as it has become a symbol of a rivaly that is so utterly irrelevant today. Yes, the first D 'won', , , but then soon was beaten by Y's search for a Heart of Gold, , , or the C.S. Moon Shadow or. . .

 

Of course when it comes down to it, no one touches the first mighty D and (his Quinn).

But now let the smaller D get some air - he deserves it, , , and as I stated here before - and wrote to my pale the other day - covered ground the first D never touched :

 

Mother Nature, outer space and nothing less than Eros himself. Quite interesting if you think it over.

 

That said, I saw a first D exhibition of paintings this summer - the third room was nothing but heavy erotica. . .

Alrite, first D - - - D for daring - debute and delirious ,-) Congratulations !

 

@62burst - I hear what you mean, but find the comparison rather rustic.

That type of break belongs to everyone - already did back then. But the repetitive free-form outro (which also belongs to everyone) continues the Hey Jude idea, doesn't it.

 

@mojoworking - never was aware of the Renbourn detail. Maybe I'll revist the clip anyway - thanx for the tip.

 

Now let us rejoice and sing and ring. .

 

 

The John Renbourn thing is interesting because the Dylan movie was filmed before his (Renbourn's) first solo LP was issued so he wasn't well-known at the time (although he'd released an album backing US singer Dorris Henderson in 1965). I'm guessing there was a buzz around London at the time about Renbourn the hot young acoustic player and that's how he was invited back to Dylan's London hotel.

 

Here's a couple of stills I took from the Don't Look Back film showing Renbourn (with beard). In the second pic there's the banjo player Derroll Adams (balding) sitting at his feet. And that may even be Dorris Henderson sitting next to Renbourn.

 

renbournDylan_zps3920f0ec.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, Renbourn was probably up and drumming as the next ace at the time.

 

The J-50 on the cover above followed him many years forward - both with ceramic and rosewood adjustable saddle.

 

Here's a pretty funky thing from soon formed Pentangle - an important and well crafted group full of sharp folks.

 

My favourite double-bass player Danny Thompson fx -

 

 

http://http://youtu.be/_q9of8OhkeQ

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The screen shot of Renbourn conjures up a whole different flashback to the English folk/rock scene the paralleled the US one. Think Pentangle, Fairport Convention Fotheringay, Steeleye Span, etc, and enormous vocal talents like Jacqui McShee, Sandy Denny and Linda Thompson.

 

Man, there was a lot of musical talent loose in the world in that period.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The screen shot of Renbourn conjures up a whole different flashback to the English folk/rock scene the paralleled the US one. Think Pentangle, Fairport Convention Fotheringay, Steeleye Span, etc, and enormous vocal talents like Jacqui McShee, Sandy Denny and Linda Thompson.

 

Man, there was a lot of musical talent loose in the world in that period.

 

Amen! But don't forget June Tabor when it comes to voices. Just an amazing bunch of folks making beautiful and interesting music. Guys like Ashley Hutchings never really got their due. For me it was Fairport Convention - at least through the Full House LP. Not that Babbcombe Lee was a bad LP but the departure of Thompson was hard not to notice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Amen! But don't forget June Tabor when it comes to voices. Just an amazing bunch of folks making beautiful and interesting music. Guys like Ashley Hutchings never really got their due. For me it was Fairport Convention - at least through the Full House LP. Not that Babbcombe Lee was a bad LP but the departure of Thompson was hard not to notice.

 

Thank the gods he did leave though.

What a solo career he's had.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank the gods he did leave though.

What a solo career he's had.

 

I want to say his first solo LP Henry was the worst selling record in the history of Warner's Bros. I was so anxious to get that record I nagged a local radio station until they gave me their advance white label promo copy. It is not like they were going to give it a lot of airplay anyway. Still got it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fantastic piece. As someone born too late (in 1968, unfortunately), I marvel at the relaxed casualness and the abundance of talent so pleasing to my ears. I'd love to know more about England's geography via a musician's take. As another guy in the US, England has always held a peculiar fascination. How could a country so geographically small boast such a line of incredible musicians per sq. mile?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

John Renbourn fans may enjoy this blog piece I wrote a while ago. The Gibson J50 gets plenty of coverage:

 

http://www.emptymirr...n-renbourn.html

 

Hello ! - That kind of first hand stories are invaluable if you ask me. They glue all the facts and figures together on a site like this - with something third.

 

Wonder when the J-50 was from - somewhere between 1955 and 1964 ?

 

The Davey Graham story is good fun. Did that party-mistake result in Renbourn, Dylan, Taylor, McTell and all the others getting their blonde slopes. . .

 

;-)

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As another guy in the US, England has always held a peculiar fascination. How could a country so geographically small boast such a line of incredible musicians per sq. mile?

 

Was it all that English rain and nowhere to go but back and forth between radio and guitar. . .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

John Renbourn fans may enjoy this blog piece I wrote a while ago. The Gibson J50 gets plenty of coverage:

 

http://www.emptymirrorbooks.com/features/music/on-the-road-again-with-john-renbourn.html

 

 

Great, great stories, and it reminds me of a lot of experiences at about the same time, even though I am a few years older than you. There was an after-show party at a friend's house with Allen Ginsberg and about 20 loud, stoned, and drunk people listening to and playing music. Pearl was supposed to be there after the show as well, but a friend of mine somehow managed to convince her to go with him instead. I never forgave him for that.

 

And the story of Renbourn's J-50 back busted by the airline mirrors the story of the similarly-busted top of my old J-45, as does your tale of hitchhiking great distances with impunity. I did a lot of that back then, and can't believe I survived it. Heaven definitely protected the not-so-innocent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's a couple of stills I took from the Don't Look Back film showing Renbourn (with beard) ... that may even be Dorris Henderson sitting next to Renbourn. renbournDylan_zps3920f0ec.jpg
Good stroeis, all. And good catch on Doris Henderson..."Watch the Stars". Renbourn is a favorite. Him, RT, and Martin Carthy were thefirst Celtic guys I as exposed to. He also used an ES335 awhile w/Pentagle.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Growing up in England in the 50s and 60s was a frustrating time for guitar fans. Not only were the great American brand names unaffordable to us, but until the mid/late 60s they simply weren't available in the stores in any great numbers.

 

Every UK guitarist knows the story about how in 1959 Hank Marvin of the Shadows acquired what is now believed to be the first Fender Stratocaster in Britain (and probably Europe too).

 

We lusted after American guitars and marvelled at university campus footage showing students protesting about Vietnam (or whatever) and these kids always had Martin or Gibson acoustics for the obligatory sing-along of We Shall Overcome or Blowin' In The Wind. It just didn't seem fair.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...