NSD! (WGS Content)

[Ryan H]

Ordered some new speakers for my 2x12 cab that I'm running my 1984 JCM800 into. This box showed up at the door this afternoon...

 

 

And upon opening it (actually two boxes very well taped together), I was presented with these:

 

 

WGS ET65 and Veteran 30. Took about an hour to get them installed (PRS really over-engineered this cab...two dozen screws just to remove the back panel!) and let me tell you...these were worth every penny.

 

Tamed the harshness that the JCM can be known for, still kept all the bite, gave me some extra bass and midrange to play around with. The amp sounds much fuller when cleaning up a dirty tone with the guitar's volume. And lastly, there's just some cool almost 3-D effect...it feels like i'm running the amp through a surround-sound system, and this is a closed-back cab!

 

Overall, extremely pleased with it. Sounds full yet articulate on the clean sounds, and really fat with a nice upper-midrange bite on the dirty sounds. Can't wait until these things break in.

 

-Ryan

 

(And yes, I will try to get some sound samples soon)

['Scales]

Nice bit of gear Ryan

 

If you don't mind me asking - what size of venues are you playing?

 

The reason for the question is that I have the opportunity to pick up a 77 JMP and Quad in great condition at a sweet price - but man, I cannot imagine ever being able to crank the thing. Its just that massively loud that even a decent pub or club gig (even without mic through the PA) it would still be on a low setting - where I'm assuming I'd not be getting the best out of it.

 

Ok - an 800 through a twin cab won't be quite as loud but still I reckon it'd be in the (extreme volume) ballpark?

 

Its a hard decision - a great deal on what could become the worlds biggest paper-weight if I can't use it. I know there are attenuators but not sure whether that really makes sense compared to a less potent amp being driven hard...?

 

cheers. 'S.

[Jon S.]

Congrats! I love WGS Speakers. I've got the ET65 in my Tweed Deluxe right now, and it sounds great.

[Ryan H]

Nice bit of gear Ryan

 

If you don't mind me asking - what size of venues are you playing?

 

The reason for the question is that I have the opportunity to pick up a 77 JMP and Quad in great condition at a sweet price - but man, I cannot imagine ever being able to crank the thing. Its just that massively loud that even a decent pub or club gig (even without mic through the PA) it would still be on a low setting - where I'm assuming I'd not be getting the best out of it.

 

Ok - an 800 through a twin cab won't be quite as loud but still I reckon it'd be in the (extreme volume) ballpark?

 

Its a hard decision - a great deal on what could become the worlds biggest paper-weight if I can't use it. I know there are attenuators but not sure whether that really makes sense compared to a less potent amp being driven hard...?

 

cheers. 'S.

 

I had the same train of thought when deciding whether to purchase the Marshall or not. I heard everyone say "don't buy one unless you can crank it, or it's a waste". I kindly give those people my third digit.

 

Big 50-watt Marshalls are not only for rock stars selling out stadiums. They sound just fine at low volumes, particularly an 800, since it has a master volume. In the case of a non-Master Volume amp, your options are either crank it (not practical), use an attenuator and crank it, or stick to distortion/overdrive pedals.

 

Regardless, these old high-wattage amps are great platforms. You can't get the "big amp sound" out of a little 5-15 watt amp. It comes from massive, heavy transformers, big glass (EL34, 6L6), and the power to drive the hell out of those speakers.

 

I never get the Master above 3, but the amp still sounds incredible by this point. That's enough to fill a decent sized auditorium. I play at about 2 at home, and it still sounds plenty good to my ears.

 

So my opinion; a big Marshall is a great platform. They have great base tone, clean or dirty.

 

A low-wattage amp driven hard will not sound like a high-wattage Marshall at any volume. It's a different amp sound.

 

-Ryan

['Scales]

Thanks for that info.

 

This ones 100W and I'm sure it has a master volume.

 

So, if you crank it within the channel and the back the master right down (as you described) does that effect the sound/tone (as opposed to the loudness - which is obviously greatly lessened) - and if so in what ways and do what degree?

 

Thanks again - my usual rig is 2 Fender SS amps on stage at same settings with one also running through the PA - so 'Big Amps' I'm not so familiar with - but keen to learn.

[Ryan H]

Thanks for that info.

 

This ones 100W and I'm sure it has a master volume.

 

So, if you crank it within the channel and the back the master right down (as you described) does that effect the sound/tone (as opposed to the loudness - which is obviously greatly lessened) - and if so in what ways and do what degree?

 

Thanks again - my usual rig is 2 Fender SS amps on stage at same settings with one also running through the PA - so 'Big Amps' I'm not so familiar with - but keen to learn.

 

It does change the tone, since it's reducing the signal going to the power section. You're hearing mostly preamp gain.

 

And this is where I advise you to stop thinking about it. If you start comparing the tone that's practical (the master backed down to a non-lethal volume) to the tone that's impractical for everyone but Nigel Tufnel (cranking the master), you're digging yourself a hole. Judge the amp base on how it sounds to you, in the way you would use it. Don't worry about whether it could sound better or different if it was cranked. Worry about if it sounds good; period.

 

I've heard my Marshall cranked, and although it sounds better to my ears, it still sounds damn good at bedroom volumes, and the difference isn't significant enough to justify burning through a pair of EL34's every week.

 

-Ryan

[pippy]

Congrats on the pair of speakers, Ryan.

I'm not familiar with the Warehouse brand but if they do all you describe (and I don't doubt you for a minute) they must be pretty great.

 

...I advise you to stop thinking about it. If you start comparing the tone that's practical......to the tone that's impractical for everyone but Nigel Tufnel (cranking the master), you're digging yourself a hole. Judge the amp base on how it sounds to you, in the way you would use it. Don't worry about whether it could sound better or different if it was cranked. Worry about if it sounds good; period...

+1.

 

P.

[Ryan H]

Congrats on the pair of speakers, Ryan.

I'm not familiar with the Warehouse brand but if they do all you describe (and I don't doubt you for a minute) they must be pretty great.

 

They're great speakers, and very affordable. I think these two cost me $70 each (Canadian). A pair of new Celestions (Made in China) would easily cost me $150 each. And WGS is Made in the USA. Quality speakers without the markup of a "benchmark" speaker company like Celestion..

 

-Ryan

[Twang Gang]

Nice bit of gear Ryan

 

If you don't mind me asking - what size of venues are you playing?

 

The reason for the question is that I have the opportunity to pick up a 77 JMP and Quad in great condition at a sweet price - but man, I cannot imagine ever being able to crank the thing. Its just that massively loud that even a decent pub or club gig (even without mic through the PA) it would still be on a low setting - where I'm assuming I'd not be getting the best out of it.

 

Ok - an 800 through a twin cab won't be quite as loud but still I reckon it'd be in the (extreme volume) ballpark?

 

Its a hard decision - a great deal on what could become the worlds biggest paper-weight if I can't use it. I know there are attenuators but not sure whether that really makes sense compared to a less potent amp being driven hard...?

 

cheers. 'S.

 

I think you should go for the Marshall and cabinet. You mention you are currently using two Fender solid state amps plus going through the PA. Your tone through the Marshall even with master way down will be sweeter I'm sure. Of course I am a tube amp guy for almost 50 years - but I really think you will enjoy it. Plus if you ever do get the "big" outdoor gig, you have amp with plenty of power and no need to go throught the PA and muddy up the vocals etc. Powerful tube rigs with good cabinets are getting harder and harder to find as we all move to smaller amps with lower power and a lot of effects pedals. Grab this one while you can

['Scales]

Thanks TG - it certainly is tempting i

The Fenders are nice little mid-90's US amps and I think are run via PA mainly cos the sound man likes to record off the desk, They are fine for covers in pubs and the Fulldrive gives a bit of grunt - but they certainly aren't Marshalls and I'd quite like to put a heavier rock band together to play with a bigger powerful sound and a big amp would appear to be a fine way to go

 

What I was wanting to be clear on is whether a Marshall would lose what to me makes a Marshall so great - that superb low end crushing sound - if master volume is employed at lower levels, as I've not used amps with master volume other than a couple of rubbishy small amps where it did impact significantly. Whilst I can well live without being schooled on 'judging things on what sounds good to me' (not being an idiot) what Ryan mentioned about the amp still sounding nearly as good at low MV levels is reassuring and what I was looking to get a handle on. If you have a view on that from your experience I'd be keen to hear it too.

 

cheers.

[Ryan H]

What I was wanting to be clear on is whether a Marshall would lose what to me makes a Marshall so great - that superb low end crushing sound...

 

The Bass control on my Marshall stays permanently below 2 on the dial. It has plenty of bass and low mids, even at low volumes. Hit it with a good overdrive or boost pedal and you're into crushing hard rock/classic metal tones.

 

-Ryan

[quapman]

 

What I was wanting to be clear on is whether a Marshall would lose what to me makes a Marshall so great - that superb low end crushing sound - if master volume is employed at lower levels,

cheers.

 

 

Hey Scales...

 

I'm thinking you already know that answer. I believe what you are referring to is the "sweet spot" when clipping and amp.

The answer is yes. The only way to get what you are looking for I believe is to crank it.

 

I may be one of the ones Ryan flipped his 3rd digit to. And that's fine. But I had a 50W head and 4x12 cab back in the day.

I know the sound you are talking about. I was there many times. And when not being there I craved it at lower volumes.

 

Yes it may sound just fine at low volumes. But there is no denying the sound of the sweet spot.

 

The whole point of these beasts is to do just that,, crank them.

Not to put pedals in them.

 

just my 2 cents from having owned one back in the 80s.

[Ryan H]

The whole point of these beasts is was to do just that,, crank them.

Not to put pedals in them.

 

Note the correction. It was their intended purpose at the time. Things are repurposed as time goes on. Gone are the days of being able to crank these 50 and 100-watt beasts without noise complaints. But they exist, and their purpose is to create great sounding music; regardless of volume. That's why attenuators were invented.

 

Remember, the Les Paul was invented by a Jazz musician for playing Jazz without worrying about feedback. Look at it now.

 

-Ryan

 

(P.S. You know I'd never give you the finger, Kevin ;))

['Scales]

thanks guys, some useful insights there.

 

Found this on youtube - some approaches to volume management - cos yes, those venues allowing big volume are sadly a dying breed. I went and saw a good friend's band play at one last week and it was so cool - like back the late 80's again. makes you realise its sadly becoming a rarity these days.