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Not for me since I never touch fretboard edges when playing. That's why I found fret sprout on an Ibanez of mine during two very cold and dry winters just accidentally when restringing. It didn't bother me anyway when playing, and so don't nibs, nubs or whatever.

I don't mean to suggest that EVERYONE buys a Gibby based on the feel of the neck.

 

There are many players who, for them, it is not even the first priority. Many Gibson players, too.

 

But rather, I suggest that it seems more than silly that Gibson would downgrade this aspect of their guitars.

 

There is more to the feel of a neck than nibs and nut. There are plenty of guitars that have great necks that don't have these features. But who ever says, "I can't deal with the smooth edges caused by the nibs"? As far as this particular aspect goes, there WAS a period of an issue with string spacing, but this is corrected by correcting the STRING SPACING. The majority of the complaints they had were from those that didn't understand that.

 

It went something like "why doesn't my Gibson play like my PRS"? Well, there are those that know why and those that don't. They are adressing the wishes of those that don't.

 

The trend I am seeing is Gibson is adressing the issues of novices and ametuers, while ignoring the imput of experts and proffesionals.

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What.. are you saying you do have first hand experience?

 

Does it make you walk with a limp after ?

 

 

 

:P

 

No, but I've always wanted an invitation to one of her parties, but it seems they are a ladies only event! Anyway, is Ann Summers a real person?

 

Ian

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The case isnt the worst I've ever seen but I think it would have looked better in black the tan/brown is fugley.As for the Les holograham it is just horrible,my opinion.I used to own a couple of Gibson gothic guitars and on the back of the headstock was a picture of Orville Gibson,that was done real classie.As for the nut all I can say is ?

_57.jpg

I had to find a photo of a gothic off of e-bay so Whom evers I used I hope you dont mind and thank you.

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I don't mean to suggest that EVERYONE buys a Gibby based on the feel of the neck.

 

(Well for me how the neck feels is one of my top priorities when purchasing any guitar) :mellow:

 

There are many players who, for them, it is not even the first priority. Many Gibson players, too.

 

(Okay, but I don't care about those people) [biggrin]

 

But rather, I suggest that it seems more than silly that Gibson would downgrade this aspect of their guitars.

 

(Amen) [thumbup]

 

 

The trend I am seeing is Gibson is addressing the issues of novices and amateurs, while ignoring the input of experts and professionals.

 

(You hit the nail on the head & this is the most disturbing part of their thought processes to me. And I believe it will cost them sales.) [blink]

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As for the hologram - I can't not laugh when I look at it - It must be a joke, I seriously can't imagine anyone at Gibson actually signing off approval on that.

 

I agree - that looks like something they stick on some of my grand kids toys. It cheapens the look and I believe Les Paul would find that abhorrent. Rabs was right - it does get worse. I need to start not reading anymore of these 2015 Gibson threads unless it's to announce they came to their senses and got rid of some of this crap.

 

The G-Force alone will prevent me from buying any Gibson that has it installed. I admit to being a traditionalist and it just doesn't belong on there. Sorry. [bored]

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I don't mean to suggest that EVERYONE buys a Gibby based on the feel of the neck.

 

There are many players who, for them, it is not even the first priority. Many Gibson players, too.

 

But rather, I suggest that it seems more than silly that Gibson would downgrade this aspect of their guitars.

 

There is more to the feel of a neck than nibs and nut. There are plenty of guitars that have great necks that don't have these features. But who ever says, "I can't deal with the smooth edges caused by the nibs"? As far as this particular aspect goes, there WAS a period of an issue with string spacing, but this is corrected by correcting the STRING SPACING. The majority of the complaints they had were from those that didn't understand that.

 

It went something like "why doesn't my Gibson play like my PRS"? Well, there are those that know why and those that don't. They are adressing the wishes of those that don't.

 

The trend I am seeing is Gibson is adressing the issues of novices and ametuers, while ignoring the imput of experts and proffesionals.

The feel of a guitar neck is crucial for me, but this is about profile, radius, and fret wires, and about fretboard material, in particular when the fret wire is of the "fretless wonder" style so that the fingertips will have to touch the timber or board finish when fretting. In the end it is a package thing for me. I wouldn't like small radiuses on very slim necks, everything else is not a problem for me.

 

I don't think they make robo tuning stock equipment for novices and amateurs. Some professionals endorse that stuff, and I completely understand why. It is awkward and embarassing when a guitar goes out of tune on stage, in particular while playing, and when it takes a few minutes break to get it right. For most guitars it WILL take minutes if stability is an issue, and it is always an issue on stage.

 

Axes with TP-6 finetuners and Floyd Rose vibratos are a completely different story, much more stable in tune and fast when in need of corrections. All of my stage stuff except for my Telecasters has finetuners, TP-6 or FR, no robo tuning here up to now, but I don't think it is that bad in general.

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Well, yes. Yes. And Yes.

 

Sales is short term. Longer term is integrity.

 

Also, what they may be loosing is the SKILL they have in building.

 

It takes far longer to re-learn how to build something than it does to unlearn it. They might want to read some of their own publications about Gibson history, the Norlin era, as well as how long and painful a process this has been for them. I am surprised because Henry should know this first hand. He DID bring them back much of the way. Does he need to experience failure?

 

This is true, opinion but true: As far as integrity goes, NONE of the features they have added to this new line-up is going to be something the "pros" are going to use. When, and if, a Gibby with the new headstock signature is found onstage or in otherwise in the hands of an influential player, the "features" are going to be taken off the guitar. When gear is discussed in magazines, and the influential players are asked about it, what are they going to have? If these are ever discussed, it will be in the context of having been removed.

 

That's going to make the company look silly, at the least. And what effect will that have on the reputation?

 

As for these guitars themselves, as far as any rememberance or "collecter" value, they can only be interesting footnotes of failures. "Remember when Gibson tried...?"

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Well, yes. Yes. And Yes.

 

Sales is short term. Longer term is integrity.

 

Also, what they may be loosing is the SKILL they have in building.

 

It takes far longer to re-learn how to build something than it does to unlearn it. They might want to read some of their own publications about Gibson history, the Norlin era, as well as how long and painful a process this has been for them. I am surprised because Henry should know this first hand. He DID bring them back much of the way. Does he need to experience failure?

...

I agree completely. Remember it took them years to reinstate a Custom Shop deserving this name.

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I don't think they make robo tuning stock equipment for novices and amateurs. Some professionals endorse that stuff, and I completely understand why. It is awkward and embarassing when a guitar goes out of tune on stage, in particular while playing, and when it takes a few minutes break to get it right. For most guitars it WILL take minutes if stability is an issue, and it is always an issue on stage.

 

Using them? I doubt it.

 

I will give 2 reasons why this would not work:

 

1), IF a guitar is prone to go out of tune, it would be "fixed" if it is to be used as a stage guitar. It isn't so much a matter of getting it into tune, but rather, that it STAYS in tune. If it has a bad nut or bridge, strings not stretched, etc. The real problem is a guitar that goes out of tune in the first place. When ever this happens, the consequence has already been heard. No player will put up with this- they will address the problem so it does NOT go out of tune in the first place.

 

Robo-tuners do NOT address this.

 

2) Look at what we have for tuners now. We have stage tuners, strobe tuners. There are tuners on racks that tell you in real time what the note is being played. Stomp-box tuners that mute. For any rig, the options for tuners are so diverse and "modern" a player can literally look down and tell where he is at, and tell how much and what he has to do to get something out back in. In most cases, before anyone even hears a bad note.

 

Question: Can anything on a headstock be as good as what you can get to address tuning as what can be had into a rig?

Question: What IS the process/technique for tuning in a live situation? If something is out while you are playing, you going to risk activating the G-force? It ain't no good there, is it?

Question: if you are going to tune a guitar BEFORE you use it during or before a show, wouldn't you use something BETTER than the crap on the headstock? like something more accurate?

 

Another point: unless you are going to change ALL your guitars for a particular stage rig to this system, it does you no good. The one oddball guitar is not going to change your process or steps.

 

And, the biggest thing WHY it wouldn't actually be used where it matters, is that you are asking for problems if you use a guitar with it. It's more of a risk than a solution. Your chances of having a tuning issue GREATLY increase having it there.

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Well cant wait to hear the reviews because I will NEVER own any of it.

You will enjoy this then (granted he does come off as a bit of a basher, over exaggerating his experience ( I hope )

 

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/gibson-les-pauls/314486-played-few-2015s-today-unmitigated-disaster.html

Warning: I will preface this mini review with a fair warning: If you dare purchase ANY of the 2015 models online, without holding one in your hands, you will be greatly disappointed on several levels. These are not your father's Gibsons.

 

I stopped into the GC in Grand Rapids on my travels for work, with the specific intent of checking to see if they had any of the 2015s in stock. Low and behold, they had two.

 

The first one I picked up was a Junior in the Vintage Sunburst. What a TOTAL hot mess! First off, the fit & finish was the absolute worst I've seen from Gibson in quite some time. They've taken a step backwards, if you can believe that. The backs on these are finished natural, so the transition from the dark of the vintage burst happens along the bottom edge of the side near the neck. It looked as if Stevie Wonder did the tape work in the paint room. The finish transition very was jagged and uneven, and that's being kind. They also chose very odd spots along the side to spray random sections of the dark (black?) paint. In the neck pocket, you could clearly see bleed through of the glue, which was painted over leaving the nitro bubbled up in several spots. The neck pocket in general was a total mess finish-wise. In all, the finish on the body was pretty horrid. Several sanding marks, and evidence of uneven final buffing. Smelled good, but looked like garbage.

 

Moving toward the neck, the rosewood was hacked in SEVERAL locations from fret filing. It was REALLY bad. A total butcher job. Comparatively speaking, the board on my '14 MM is flawless. I was totally stunned regarding how badly the rosewood was butchered... file marks EVERYWHERE.

 

On to the neck profile... this in my opinion will be the total death blow for the 2015 lineup. From the 12th fret down, it's nearly unplayable. And that's no exaggeration. I've played ALL types of neck profiles, but nothing like this. It provides almost instant cramping of your hand, and an EXTREMELY awkward and unnatural feeling. I really can't put into words how bad that section of the neck is.

 

Fretwork was mediocre, aside from the butchering of the rosewood, which was the ABSOLUTE WORST I have ever seen on ANY guitar at ANY price point. It made a Squier look like a PRS. No joke, no exaggeration.

 

Continuing up the neck, it becomes more playable, and quite like a Classical acoustic profile. Yes... a Classical guitar profile on a Gibson. WTF? An Ibanez Wizard is MUCH more playable... this is just weird and uncomfortable. Where they came up with this is beyond me.

 

Further on, you'll hit that wonderful brass zero fret nut. Another unmitigated disaster. Also appeared to be installed by Stevie Wonder, with a boat load of finish flaws in the surrounding area. It looked like a bolt-on, afterthought piece that didn't really belong on the guitar. Setup was subpar, and there was plenty of fret buzz to harsh the minimal playing enjoyment. Not sure what happend to this "pro setup" from the factory, but I wasn't seeing, feeling or hearing it. The sales manager told me that they recieved explicit instructions from Gibson to NOT perform ANY setups on the 2015 line... they are forbidden.

 

Further down, you'll run into the god awful Les Paul 100 script on the face of the headstock. It looks worse in person... it's bad. Real bad. Probably one of the worst things on the guitar, is the Les Paul Holograph sticker on the back of the headstock... it's right below the much maligned G-Force tuning system (so yes, it is exposed) and it looks like a very cheap version of the "INTEL Inside" sticker you'd see on a computer. It's f**king horrid. It's about a 3/4" x 3/4" square sticker (under the clear) with Les waving is hand. Thing is, his hand is just a big blob, and bares no resemblance to an actual human hand. Again... WTF is this? It looks SOOOO f**cking cheap, and it's there to stay, under the clear and prominantly displayed.

 

The face of the headstock was a hot mess too, with a bunch of sanding marks in the clear, and again a poor buffing job. I can once again honestly say, it is some of the absolute worst QC & fit and finish I've seen on any guitar in a very long time.

 

I also played the Studio in whatever blue finish they offer. Also a total hot mess. Fit and finish was very similar to the Junior, so it wasn't an anomoly. Maybe a notch better, but not much. A total turd for $1300. Same unplayable neck profile as the Junior. The small frets on both guitars weren't really an issue when compared to the "straight as a 2x4" neck profile & wide fretboard.

 

In summary... these guitars suck total ***. I've owned at least a dozen USA made Gibsons in the past 6 years, so I have a good point of reference. These are from a totally different planet, with craftsmanship that is easily trumped by Asian made guitars in the $300 price range. I love my Gibbys, so I'm not a hater... just calling it like it is. I wanted them to be good. I wanted to buy a 2015 Junior. I'd rather buy an Epiphone... and I hate Epiphones. Truth.

 

Sorry to come off so harsh like Buzz Killington, but I'm still reeling in disbelief about how bad these guitars were. Shocked. Stunned. And I've seen plenty of crap from Gibson. This takes it to a whole new level.

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I gotta admit the hologram looks pretty goofy.

robo tuners should simply be an option.

But who cares about the case??

Really?

I don't think it looks that bad to be honest but I could never imagine giving a rats a$$ what a case looked like.

 

Actually,, I don't care what they want to do. If I don't like the new stuff there is plenty of used options out there.

I just don't know why everyone gets so worked up about this stuff.

I really don't care. I don't know why some care so much.

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i'm sure that in a sweatshop somewhere in China, as we speak, some wisea** is making counterfiets with the hologram, but only Les Pauls MIDDLE FINGER is waving at us !! [laugh]

Haha, yes I must admit when I first saw that hologram this picture came to mind and I thought it would actually be more appropriate picture than the one they are actually using :unsure: ;)

 

lespaul_zpsa5abe49c.jpg

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I gotta admit the hologram looks pretty goofy.

robo tuners should simply be an option.

But who cares about the case??

Really?

I don't think it looks that bad to be honest but I could never imagine giving a rats a$$ what a case looked like.

 

Actually,, I don't care what they want to do. If I don't like the new stuff there is plenty of used options out there.

I just don't know why everyone gets so worked up about this stuff.

I really don't care. I don't know why some care so much.

Just for the record... im not actually worked up about any of it really... even though I do find some of it a bit baffling..

 

And if I can ever afford one and go and try one of those new double cuts (and the neck isn't an issue) none of this will stop me buying it at all, I will change the tuners and rip the stupid hologram off and make it mine...

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Just for the record... im not actually worked up about any of it really... even though I do find some of it a bit baffling..

 

And if I can ever afford one and go and try one of those new double cuts (and the neck isn't an issue) none of this will stop me buying it at all, I will change the tuners and rip the stupid hologram off and make it mine...

 

Isn't the hologram under the clearcoat? That'll be instant FAKE!!!!

 

rct

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Isn't the hologram under the clearcoat?

 

rct

LOL

 

Man I really hope not... but I wont worry about it as if I do buy one it will be to keep.....

 

What I sometimes do with guitars is keep all that stuff on and the plastic covering on the scratchplate etc until im sure its a keeper, then it all gets ripped off.. or the guitar gets sold on as new.

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No, but I've always wanted an invitation to one of her parties, but it seems they are a ladies only event! Anyway, is Ann Summers a real person?

 

Ian

Yes she was... look it up on Google :)

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Haha, yes I must admit when I first saw that hologram this picture came to mind and I thought it would actually be more appropriate picture than the one they are actually using :unsure: ;)

 

lespaul_zpsa5abe49c.jpg

 

 

That may(?) be more in line with what he'd think of the 2015 line? [tongue][biggrin]

 

CB

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Haha, yes I must admit when I first saw that hologram this picture came to mind and I thought it would actually be more appropriate picture than the one they are actually using :unsure: ;)

 

lespaul_zpsa5abe49c.jpg

 

 

That may(?) be more in line with what he'd think of the 2015 line? [tongue][biggrin]

 

CB

Hmmm... I guess the thought of already owning all the guitars he wants was the only thing that would have made him smile. [rolleyes]

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Heres a more level headed review... seems that not many people like the new neck much (look at the space between the bottom E and the edge of the fretboard, then compare it to your own LP) (even though it may be the angle of the shot and no nibs that are contributing)

 

 

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/gibson-les-pauls/314689-bd-2014-2015-traditional-today-also-tried-15-classic-pictures.html

Gave the new 15's a spin today to see what the fuss was about. They had a Traditional and Classic at the one I stopped at. First impression is yes the Headstock is ugly but for me is not a deal breaker. The G force is nothing of my interest and would be swapped for traditional tuners and the brass nut did not bother me. What bothered me a whole bunch was the neck. First I do prefer a 60's style neck so the Trads were not going to be 100% comfortable for me to begin with. Also I did not plug any of these in as I only had a 1/2hr to spare in the store and wanted to spend some time with just the guitars and not worry about finding "my tone". The 14 neck was chunky but played well and the 12th inlay did not seem to affect my playing. I was not very comfortable on it and could not slam home the notes as fast as I would like on the higher frets basically around the 14th on but again that is just me. Other than that I liked this guitar.

 

On to the 2015 Traditional. I did forget to mention that hologram in the back is absolutely hideous and is very hard to make out. I thought I got a good picture of it but even my camera wanted nothing to do with it and was blurred extremely bad. I did not think .005" would make a big difference on the neck but for me it did a lot. I had both guitars next to me and after sitting the 14 down it took me 15 seconds to start playing around with the 15. My hands cramped just playing around the 1 through 5 frets and my gosh get down to around the 12th fret I felt like I took 3 steps back in playing guitar. I was not enjoying this at all. Again this is just my preference but WOW what a difference I noticed from 2014 to 2015.

 

Again since I like a slimmer neck and I own a 2013 Standard I was glad a Classic was there to give their 60's neck a try. I first fooled around the 1st through 5th frets and it was beautiful. I really really liked it. Then around the 7th to 10th again, glorious. I was digging it. 12th fret ROAD BLOCK! What the hell happened? This thing took me right back to the 15 Traditional where it just felt all wrong. I was not having as much trouble but I just absolutely could not bond with this neck from the 12th on. Maybe I needed more than 10 minutes? Again it was just one guitar out of thousands and I am just one opinion but man a tale of two necks on this Les Paul Classic.

 

Both of them had great QC except the Traditional did have one spot on the binding that was a bit ugly. Other than that both had good fret work and the finish is nice and everything else seemed to be a well put together couple guitars. The one thing is the covers on the back do seem to look a bit on the cheap side as well.

 

Bottom line the price these are commanding I feel Gibson is taking a step back. The price does not fit the product in my opinion. I really dug the 2014 Traditional besides the neck. Although I do not care for the Cherry burst I see they make a 2014 Traditional with the 60's neck that I am hoping to pull the trigger on in a month or so.

 

20140928_115708_zpsc8106fa1.jpg

 

20140928_115751_zpsc9517434.jpg

 

20140928_115742_zpse72d73b2.jpg

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Listen guys and gals...

 

Stop with the sexual orientation slang or this thread will be gone, and vacations will be handed out.

 

proceed

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Well, by looks alone, it seems more akin to Epiphone, than Gibson! Now, there's

NOTHING "wrong" with Epiphone's. They are, excellent...especially at their price

point. Which is kind of the point here...Gibson's that look more like Epiphones

all the time, but at 5-6+ times the price, and 28% higher still, this coming year,

is NOT a good direction, for Gibson to be going, if they want to command that price

difference. IMHO...

 

CB

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You will enjoy this then (granted he does come off as a bit of a basher, over exaggerating his experience ( I hope )

 

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/gibson-les-pauls/314486-played-few-2015s-today-unmitigated-disaster.html

Warning: I will preface this mini review with a fair warning: If you dare purchase ANY of the 2015 models online, without holding one in your hands, you will be greatly disappointed on several levels. These are not your father's Gibsons.

 

 

Sorry to come off so harsh like Buzz Killington, but I'm still reeling in disbelief about how bad these guitars were. Shocked. Stunned. And I've seen plenty of crap from Gibson. This takes it to a whole new level.

Good review.

 

I would guess that these two samples are the exceptions as far as the quality mistakes, (sometimes a store will get leftovers or the bottom of the barrel), but as to the features, it's likely a good tale.

 

Also, judging by the what you describe ARE problems with the quality control aspects, it suggest to be that Gibson has changed or is in the process of changing HOW they build. The techniques and so forth.

 

For example, the file marks. That to me is more than a complaint. Gibson was doing very little hand fret work in the recent past. Either with that new plek machine or not. Before plek came, they used to just take the top off the frets if anything. It might not of been the best or most complete work, but that could be a more detailed subject. But when you bring in plek, you loose the skills base of having employees skilled at fretwork. Now, seeing file marks all over suggest someone is trying to do fretwork, but lacks the skill. But more so, it points to a new process or step being done at the assembly level.

 

As for the finish work, it may suggest some different process taking place, or different steps, but could also mean different employees transferred to different places in the production line. It could be trying to use poeple more places, or loss of certain employees, or, employees who don't care for whatever reason. Not saying I know, but rather, the finish issues you describe are unusual in the scope of the severity that it suggest a change in the building process.

 

What sounds troubling the most is that it suggest the company is out of control. not being managed. Besides a change of specs that the market has already proven don't sell, the issues that would be reported back to the company that QC would want to address in the factory level are complaints that are of this very nature. How do you go from being succesful on a certain level and then set up for failure so quick and obvious?

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