dating/valuing an early 70's J-50?

[williemyers]

hey guys, first time here...

I've got a J-50 that I purchased new from a Charlotte, NC dealer around '72, I think. I need to sell it to friend, but we're not sure what a fair value would be. There are a couple of things unique about it, so I thought perhaps some of you guys could share your knowledge? Thanks in advance.

 

There's no internal paper Gibson sticker - there may have been one at some point - but on the back of the headstock, stamped in to the wood, is the number "950359" and "Made in USA". One thing that I haven't seen on internet photos of J-50's is that the headstock cover of the truss rod adjustment has "J-50" in script etched on to it. It's pick guard is a "tortoise-shell" teardrop and it has a ceramic saddle.

 

As for mods, I've replaced all the tuners with Grover gold Rotomatics.

 

So then, any clues on what it's age and value might be?

 

Again, thanks in advance

[zombywoof]

The best you are going to get quickly is 1970-1972. I have seen 1972 guitars with the model on the TRC but that does not mean it did not appear in other years as well.

 

Value - these guitars are not collectible especially those made from 1971 on. I know that guitar shops will ask in the $1400 range for a '72 or so. Not sayng they get that but it is what they ask. I would say realistically you would be in the $$800 to $1K range. The replaced tuners will not impact the value so do not worry about them.

[Cranky Boy]

In case You wonder why Your guitar less in demand, or has a lower resale, is because a Company named Norlin bought Gibson in the late 60's. Norlin was a manufacturer, but not a guitar maker. All they knew was how to make money at all cost. They decided that the was to sell guitars that never get returned on Warranty was to build them like a tank. They never had very many of them break, but by building them so strong, they overbuilt all of the bracing. Building a really strong guitar is very good if You want them to last forever, but it is very bad for the buyer who wanted a guitar to sound wonderful. Of course, there are exceptions, and some of the guitars from the Norlin era really sound awesome.

 

If they put the right pieces of tonewood together just right, a good sounding guitar would be the result. Sometimes they got it right, and some of them sound awesome despite the thing being built like a tank. If You weigh a guitar that Norlin made, and weigh one from the factory today, the current model will weigh considerably less than a Norlin guitar. In most cases, a light guitar will have considerably better tone than an overbuilt one. Norlin also made guitars with adjustable bridges. The top of Your guitar is the part that vibrates to create great tone. Bridges that are fitted in a way that makes the saddle and top one piece, again, better tone. In most cases, adjustable bridges don't allow the saddle and strings to vibrate as well with the top. The result of installing an adjustable bridge, in most cases, results in less vibration of the top. Again. The result is worse tone than older Gibsons, and modern Gibsons.

 

About the only way to know if Your guitar is one of the really good Norlin era guitar is to install a new set of strings, and compare the sound against a modern or older guitar with a new set of strings on board. If Your guitar sounds great, and similar to the non-Norlin guitar, You are one of the lucky ones. If I had a Norlin era guitar that sounds awesome, I would keep it as opposed to selling it for half of the price of a non-Norlin guitar. That is unless the buyer is unaware of the Norlin thing, in which case You could probably get more like $1500 or more for your guitar. I don't think that it is Your duty to tell the buyer that Your guitar comes from the worst era in Gibson history. In that case, let the buyer beware. If it's a really nice J50 I would ask $1500, and if the buyer brings up the Norlin thing, then the two of You could negotiate a deal. But if I had a really beautiful 1972 J50, I would not start my asking price at $1000. I would ask $1500 and see if it is worth that much to a buyer.

 

If Your guitar was hanging on a wall at a Guitar Center store, I guarantee You that they would have a $1700 tag or more on it if is a beautiful example. The fact that Your guitar is a one owner adds value just like a one owner car. Also, if the original case is very nice, and You have all of the paperwork and any hang tags that were on the guitar when it was on display at the dealer, that also adds value to Your guitar. Many people just plain want a Gibson, and they could care less if it is a Norlin built guitar or not. They will be thrilled just to own a Gibson. I'm sure that You were thrilled when You brought it home and opened the case for the first time. Any nice Gibson is a very desireable thing to own. When You played it for the first time, it sounded awesome, and probably still does.The negotiations of the sale depends upon how close of a friend the buyer is. Caveat Emptor.

[zombywoof]

In case You wonder why Your guitar less in demand, or has a lower resale, is because a Company named Norlin bought Gibson in the late 60's. Norlin was a manufacturer, but not a guitar maker.

 

The story is incredibly more complicated that this. Hard to get this whole thing straight but as a starting point it was Ecuadorian Company Limited Industries, a Panamanian holding company, that purchased a controlling interest in CMI, Gibson's parent company, in late 1969. Bottom line though is that Gibson had been under the control of somebody who did not know how to make guitars as early as 1965 when Arnie Berlin took over CMI from his father Maurice. Little doubt though that the years from 1971 until the mid-1980s are generally considered Gibson's "dark age."

[Cranky Boy]

Oh, There were far deeper things that were going on back then, but I was just trying to simplify why he was told that his guitar is considered sub par by many Gibson owners who can afford to buy guitars from any era. I was also telling him that his guitar could be one of the nicest sounding guitars that Gibson ever put out. In my opinion, a J50 from any time in Gibsons history is a guitar that I personally would love to own. Also, if it's in very nice shape with paperwork and case candy, I would pay well more than $1000.

 

That's all. just trying to let him know in a summarized, easy to follow way. That's all. I'm a new guy here, and I only know what I've gathered in my recent internet Gibson surfing,and not a complete listing of every company that wanted to or did buy Gibson. That, IMHO, could get pretty boring and sort of pointless. Peace, CB

[zombywoof]

You will have to forgive me as I am a research historian by trade so delving into the history of something is just something I do without thinking. It is my nature to be curious and to unravel puzzles. I just came off a 6 month binge working on Woodrow Wilson's war on a group of local radicals during War War I. I walked around all day humming "I Didn't Raise my Boy to be a Soldier."

 

I am also old enough to have been around guitars way before there was an interweb, forums, books, or whatever. There was no way on the face of the earth I could have figured out when my first Gibson was made. The best part though was we did not care. We did not know anything about bridge plates, "tone woods," bracing, or any of that. All most of us knew was what out ears and fingers told us. Lawdy, I miss those days.