GibsonKramer Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 you know what guys? We will never know if Gibson "blew it" or not, will we? Gibson does not release to the public their new guitar sales, model by model, every year. Reading through all the posts on the 2015 models it is clear that a large number of us posting here are making great predictions that Gibson will "fail" in sales this year. Really? How would you know, you don't sit in their board room and look at the numbers. I hate to say it but it seems that a lot of us here almost seem to be rooting for failure, so we can say "I told you so" I hope Gibson does just fine selling their 2015s and the more I read the more I read of people buying the guitars with the G Force, nut, and neck, and actually liking them. Sure, of course I have also read of a handful, really just a couple, of guys who bought and had immediate problems with the G Force, but they are covered under warranty. Gibson sells all over the world, I would like be be a large shareholder getting 20 million dollars every year in dividends and laughing to the bank about such a "unmitigated disaster". I really don't take it that personally. And its just an observation. Doesn't effect me in the least. Well, unless it makes previous years models more valuable and I actually sell some day. Try decaff, my man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dg77 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 you know what guys? We will never know if Gibson "blew it" or not, will we? Gibson does not release to the public their new guitar sales, model by model, every year. Reading through all the posts on the 2015 models it is clear that a large number of us posting here are making great predictions that Gibson will "fail" in sales this year. Really? How would you know, you don't sit in their board room and look at the numbers. I hate to say it but it seems that a lot of us here almost seem to be rooting for failure, so we can say "I told you so" I hope Gibson does just fine selling their 2015s and the more I read the more I read of people buying the guitars with the G Force, nut, and neck, and actually liking them. Sure, of course I have also read of a handful, really just a couple, of guys who bought and had immediate problems with the G Force, but they are covered under warranty. Gibson sells all over the world, I would like be be a large shareholder getting 20 million dollars every year in dividends and laughing to the bank about such a "unmitigated disaster". Very true, we don't have the insight into numbers but clearly there is a new direction. It reminds me a lot of the recent changes to Apple's philosophiesover the last two to three years. Things started shifting when Steve jobs left and even more after he died honestly. I wonder if it's just taking gibson longer to get out from under the Les Paul control for lack of a better word than out took Apple. It's like they had a'll these ideas and could never get them out there and someone took down the red tape so they went crazy with the changes instead of slowly bringing them along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masliko Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Gibson is alienating about 90% of their customer base I have to respectfully disagree My point is that people on this forum, the MLP forum, people who own and play Gibson guitars are NOT, in my opinion, Gibson's "base". Why? Because "we" already own Gibsons, and how many times have I read "I only buy used, I would never pay for new guitar, I can't afford it" So, WE are not the marketing demographic that Gibson is interested in selling NEW guitar too, Gibson knows that and they know that there are tens of millions of potential NEW gibson guitar buyers out there and in order to both keep and increase their share of the total NEW guitar market they have to market themselves as innovative and the guitar to most aspire to owning, and they are smartly doing that by raising price and being the first to have adjustable nut and auto tuners. It is irrelevant to Gibson that YOU do not like the G Force and the new prices, YOU are not the targeted demographic, Gibson does not really care at all what YOU think. All just my opinion and you can curse and flame me all you want, but at 65 years of age and having sat in many majority shareholder meetings, I think i know "business" You are spot on IMO.All the serious Gibson users i know,would all buy used if they had a choice,because its usually the better option-because you can always almost get a new guitar at a great price. In a way this also feeds into the Chibson issue.As far as I'm concerned the Chibson issue is actually is a good thing for Gibson because now you have to be seriously careful when buying used Gibsons . I know a lot of people who have said "I really wanted to buy a used one but there's to many fakes-so i have to go to a music store to buy one so i know I'm getting the real the thing".....and people are right in thinking this.One of my mates almost got burnt for $2500 on a Chibson, just the other day.Yes,he wasn't a guitar expert and all of us started somewhere-but that's my point. People who buy Chibson are not going to buy a Gibson,they have either got no money,to stupid or just not interested.I personally think they're insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimi Mac Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 I think it's a manufacturing run. It will sink or swim with the fans of what it has to offer.. I think next year or the year after there'll be plenty of models and runs offered without G-force or auto-tuners of any kind on them. I suspect Gibson is investigating the market acceptance of such a guitar and will be taking notes after a full year's worth of sales history. Then after that they will have non-auto-tuner guitars selling like hotcakes to those that didn't like them or want them to compare to the sales numbers in order to have a complete market research report and will then know what percentage of manufacture of them to maintain... It's my suspicion that this is simply a longevity based endeavor that required the tooling of the plant be changed to accommodate so they could make an honest effort into getting to the bottom of true market response/acceptance. I can't see that this is what they will do forever, I just don't see it being possible... There will also likely be further period runs where they may do the same thing again if the acceptance and market desire warrants it in the future... It will probably come and go in cycles of manufacturing runs, likely based on production year runs... As for the woes of this thread author, I can only say that's too bad. It doesn't sound like the norm and it sounds like yours is/was defective in some manner. It might have been worth the attempt if you really liked the style, finish, and whatever else made you buy that model in the first place to see if a replacement by the same model from the seller did the same thing... I'd be moderately curious to know what percentage of new buyers of this product are experience the same or similar issues and what percentage are not having troubles with them and think they work flawlessly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundMaster Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Original post deleted by author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Gibson does not release to the public their new guitar sales, model by model, every year. Gibson sells all over the world, I would like be be a large shareholder getting 20 million dollars every year in dividends and laughing to the bank about such a "unmitigated disaster". Gibson is privately held and therefore is not required to report anything. Gibson is privately held, so no shareholder is getting 20 million anything. A dividend of 20 million? Holy crap, if the entire guitar industry went public and you were the majority in each company you'd see only 20 THOUSAND yearly. If you were lucky! rct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norton Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 A dividend of 20 million? Holy crap, if the entire guitar industry went public and you were the majority in each company you'd see only 20 THOUSAND yearly. If you were lucky! are you 14 or something? ever sat on the board of large profitable companies? I have, and yes, 20 million a year in dividends for each majority shareholder is....common...maybe later in life you will have a more realistic sense of how profitable some companies are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norton Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 I'd be moderately curious to know what percentage of new buyers of this product are experience the same or similar issues and what percentage are not having troubles with them and think they work flawlessly... we will never know those percentages but over on the MyLesPaul forum a number of new 2015 Les Paul buyers are quite happy with their G Forces, and from what I have read the few that have had problems were quickly swapped out under warranty with new units with no further issues also at MLP forum, there are some working musicians reporting how much they like the G Force while performing and some are purchasing units to retrofit their other guitars with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 A dividend of 20 million? Holy crap, if the entire guitar industry went public and you were the majority in each company you'd see only 20 THOUSAND yearly. If you were lucky! are you 14 or something? No. Do you always assume that anyone that doesn't agree with you is 14? ever sat on the board of large profitable companies? No. I have, and yes, 20 million a year in dividends for each majority shareholder is....common...maybe later in life you will have a more realistic sense of how profitable some companies are k. Any idea of the average number of guitars Gibson can make in a year, less overhead, get the margins, figure out how much is actually coming back? Any idea how many guitars are sold in America in a year, do the math, figure on dealer costs, see what the industry in general turns around? I didn't think so. There's a really big difference between sitting on the board of a large, publically traded company and "the board" of a small potatoes privately held manufacturer. Sure, you've sat on boards. Good for you. I've been around guitars my entire life. The word "millions" is hardly ever applied on the profit side. Maybe when you've sat on a few more boards you will have a more realistic sense of how profitable guitar companies are. For some great reading, look at debt ratios for the biggest three makers/retailers, that is, Fender, Gibson, GC/MF. Maybe then with all of your studly experience you will understand why the are not public, and not generating anything in dividends. rct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundMaster Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Original post deleted by author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saturn Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 This awesome topic was in real danger of being pushed down to Page 2. I just couldn't let that happen. Please continue...... B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnBeingHuman Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 I have a G-Foce and think its fantastic i've had no problems with it all. I even made a simple little youtube video showing how easy it is to use. Not sure why people have an issue with it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3jylPHSq84 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjaysonic Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 My question about the G Force system is will it still work in 50 years? You can buy an original 50s guitar ( if you have deep pockets) and everything will work. The G Force works off a rechargeable battery, and these tend to stop holding their charge after a few years. Are Gibson committing to providing replacement batteries for the system for the next 50 years??? Just a thought. I like the idea of the G Force but I just don't think they have thought it through. I have just got hold of a 2013 Studio and the standard classic tuners are the nicest, smoothest tuners I have had on a guitar. Keep it simple I say. If it ain't broke........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Actually a lot of those 50s plastic tuner buttons rot off and have to be replaced. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulf B Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 I have a LP 2015 Classic and the G Force tuning system tunes my guitar every time without any problems. No problems. Excellent guitar :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjaysonic Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Actually a lot of those 50s plastic tuner buttons rot off and have to be replaced. Actually, yeah that's a truth that you are telling, I kind of glossed over that fact to make my point! I guess if the G Force freaks out it can always be replaced like any other tunining system. I would still like to know what the life span of the battery is though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sutil Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 I love the 2015 line of LPM Gibson guitars... They don't look like a traditional Les Paul, although I wouldn't mind having a Classic Les Paul I like that this one comes without a pickguard. So I do like the look, originally I bought one that was more brown , like the back of the translucent ebony model , it was all brown, like wood and smelled like chocolate.... Definitely the best guitar I've owned and is an entry leverl Gibson! But my strats feel like toys now, I love the chunky neck and the brass nut... All top notch... Now, the tuners.... When I got the first one the tuber worked flawlessly and even though I knew, just by feel that it's not a good idea to tube it manually I would still adjust it a lottle bit here and there evn though the tuner itself woul make the guitar sound as crisp and as in tune as I've ever heard... I returned that guitar because it chipped right in the middle of the body and in only a couple of days that chip was getting bigger and bigger, went back to the store and they told me they had to send it back to Gibson, it would be around a 3 to 6 week turnaround .... That was unacceptable for me at the time, so I said, hey, why don't I just return it? And get a new one in 2 to 3 days? Sure that works... I got a brand new LPM, but obviously, it happens to me everytime, I thibk I'm doing the best thing, the right thing at the moment and so I open the box, then the brand new case and surprise surprise.... This one is kinda black... Not the entire body but the front is a more purpleish black... Not a big deal, I did prefer the wood looking one, but ehatever with a few adjustments it played the same, sounded the same and tuned the same... But now after about a year of owning it I've noticed the tuner doesn't tune as accurate as before, hell , it doesn't tune it right at all... I don't know how the G Force tunning system actually works, someone here maybe could enlighten me on that... But is it similar to other tuners where they read the vibration of the guitar? Or are they calculating by tension and how many turns it takes, because I downloaded the manual and it says that if we change gauge we need to re calibrate the guitar, also, I've done custom tunings with my TC polytuner on strobe mode to be super exact... I save it, I recall that preset and poom, still out of tune... However slightly... All I have to do is re tune the g string and hi e , but still, what's the point in having electronic tuners if you are going to be tuning it yourself after the fact... When it works, it's awesome... You can tune accurately fast and change tunnings in a matter of a couple of seconds... But I do not know if it's the G Force itself or the fact that I messed around with the floydrose bridge and neck eelief as well as changed gauges ... In the manual it states that all those little tweaks might make the tuner not work properly, but like I said, I've done presets and it still doesn't tube it super accurately anymore... And I'm one of the ones that loves that system, so I really hope I can find what's wrong... If not I will be removing it... I read here that someone asked if they have succesfully replaced the g force tuners with a regular classic tuners? Please! Anybody? Is it hard ? Is it even possible? Seems like it... But this is my first Les Paul, everything is a little different than fenders... The way you swap electronics and the way you set up the guitar is comoletaly different... Hopefully changing hardware is not that hard.... Any help, tips, advice, links would be greatly appreciated... Thanks! And I saw now at GC they brought back the 2015's with the tuners removed... Don't need to say anything about that, obviously... Hahaha but I may or may not buy a 2016 Studio, since they dropped the price considerably... For 799 looks like a nice guitar made with better wood... The only thing is I'm now spoiled by the adjustable metal nut that makes the guitar brighter, more articulate and chords sustain eternally... Ok, someone please help! Maybe I missed the answer somehow on this thread... Sorry if I'm asking for something that was already answered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 I love the 2015 line of LPM Gibson guitars... They don't look like a traditional Les Paul, although I wouldn't mind having a Classic Les Paul I like that this one comes without a pickguard. So I do like the look, originally I bought one that was more brown , like the back of the translucent ebony model , it was all brown, like wood and smelled like chocolate.... Definitely the best guitar I've owned and is an entry leverl Gibson! But my strats feel like toys now, I love the chunky neck and the brass nut... All top notch... Now, the tuners.... When I got the first one the tuber worked flawlessly and even though I knew, just by feel that it's not a good idea to tube it manually I would still adjust it a lottle bit here and there evn though the tuner itself woul make the guitar sound as crisp and as in tune as I've ever heard... I returned that guitar because it chipped right in the middle of the body and in only a couple of days that chip was getting bigger and bigger, went back to the store and they told me they had to send it back to Gibson, it would be around a 3 to 6 week turnaround .... That was unacceptable for me at the time, so I said, hey, why don't I just return it? And get a new one in 2 to 3 days? Sure that works... I got a brand new LPM, but obviously, it happens to me everytime, I thibk I'm doing the best thing, the right thing at the moment and so I open the box, then the brand new case and surprise surprise.... This one is kinda black... Not the entire body but the front is a more purpleish black... Not a big deal, I did prefer the wood looking one, but ehatever with a few adjustments it played the same, sounded the same and tuned the same... But now after about a year of owning it I've noticed the tuner doesn't tune as accurate as before, hell , it doesn't tune it right at all... I don't know how the G Force tunning system actually works, someone here maybe could enlighten me on that... But is it similar to other tuners where they read the vibration of the guitar? Or are they calculating by tension and how many turns it takes, because I downloaded the manual and it says that if we change gauge we need to re calibrate the guitar, also, I've done custom tunings with my TC polytuner on strobe mode to be super exact... I save it, I recall that preset and poom, still out of tune... However slightly... All I have to do is re tune the g string and hi e , but still, what's the point in having electronic tuners if you are going to be tuning it yourself after the fact... When it works, it's awesome... You can tune accurately fast and change tunnings in a matter of a couple of seconds... But I do not know if it's the G Force itself or the fact that I messed around with the floydrose bridge and neck eelief as well as changed gauges ... In the manual it states that all those little tweaks might make the tuner not work properly, but like I said, I've done presets and it still doesn't tube it super accurately anymore... And I'm one of the ones that loves that system, so I really hope I can find what's wrong... If not I will be removing it... I read here that someone asked if they have succesfully replaced the g force tuners with a regular classic tuners? Please! Anybody? Is it hard ? Is it even possible? Seems like it... But this is my first Les Paul, everything is a little different than fenders... The way you swap electronics and the way you set up the guitar is comoletaly different... Hopefully changing hardware is not that hard.... Any help, tips, advice, links would be greatly appreciated... Thanks! And I saw now at GC they brought back the 2015's with the tuners removed... Don't need to say anything about that, obviously... Hahaha but I may or may not buy a 2016 Studio, since they dropped the price considerably... For 799 looks like a nice guitar made with better wood... The only thing is I'm now spoiled by the adjustable metal nut that makes the guitar brighter, more articulate and chords sustain eternally... Ok, someone please help! Maybe I missed the answer somehow on this thread... Sorry if I'm asking for something that was already answered try here http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/forum/151-g-force-and-other-gibson-tech-guitars/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcePaulie Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 What’s the problem with using the G Force manually? When it is off of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveFord Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 The very low gear ratio if I recall correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauloqs Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 I had G-Force on a 2017 Les Paul Standard HP for a little under 3 years. I never had any issues with it. It stayed in tune and it was super convenient to change tunings. It was a bit more laborious to change strings, though. With that said, in two instances, I’ve spent 5 minutes with a 2015 SG with G-force and realized how terrible they were. 5 minutes with each guitar is all it took. Gibson improved them drastically in 2016 and 2017. The 2015 G-Force were awful. If it were my guitars, I’d replace the G-Force with Grover locking tuners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 On 6/16/2019 at 6:31 PM, AcePaulie said: What’s the problem with using the G Force manually? When it is off of course Nothing major. As Steve said, the gearing is low so lots more winding to do. Its also pretty stiff so its harder work. The major problem for me was stability, rarely tuning accuracy. The guitar needed tuning a bit more frequently. I used G Force for well over 3 years so I got to know it pretty well. Having said that I never pushed it hard. Never used it outside of concert tuning, and always tuned strings individually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 I rarely used a tuner at all for years. I just used to imagine a orchestra tuning up, and I tuned to that. Worked well. I lost that ability after a couple of years hearing a tone deaf singer in the workshop next to my office. I also do not learn by ear so well now. I thought I would have that ability for always, but no more. Seems that skill needs ongoing practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Re: G Force and other changes/innovations. It was clear to me when I first came here that emotions were involved. I had trouble understanding that. That vitriolic hated is irrational and so cant be met on rational terms. That G Force was not quite good enough is one thing, but the whole concept is offensive to many. Most of them would never even use it. It wasn't just G Force. One member was just as upset about the tang hole in the pickup ring (to hold the removable pickguard on). He couldn't see it (if he's playing), his audience couldn't see it. It would never show up in a photo. So it was just the idea of it being there that triggered the reaction. A pickup ring is easy to replace and not worth a rant IMO. I'm glad I stuck around, because I learned a lot and got to know lots of you, but I still think your all batsh1t crazy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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