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Guitar copyright


houndman55

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Posted

Hey,

 

So how come companies like Gibson and Fender can't control compeditors from copying their guitar shapes? I mean the stratocaster and les paul shape are like the most common guitar shapes in the entire world. And companies like ESP, Jackson, BC Rich, Schecter etc. make truckloads of money stealing the explorer and flying v shape and adding a bit of metal into them. I read somewhere that in order for Fender or Gibson to successfully sue a comapany they need to like use the of the specific guitars official brand name "stratocaster" or "les paul" and certain measurements in the headstock and whatnot. Is that true?

Posted

In case they are copying designs like shapes and sizes very close, companies can be sued despite of giving them instruments different names.

Posted

.

The headstock designs, logos and names are typically trademarked or claimed as trademarked. For instance, guitars using the Gibson script headstock logo are illegal. Gibson sued Ibanez in the 70s over headstocks, but that was settled out of court.

 

Body shapes can be copied when the patent runs out - anyone can copy the body shapes - which is basically what you've got now with both Gibson and Fender shapes.

 

 

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Posted

Hey,

 

So how come companies like Gibson and Fender can't control compeditors from copying their guitar shapes? I mean the stratocaster and les paul shape are like the most common guitar shapes in the entire world. And companies like ESP, Jackson, BC Rich, Schecter etc. make truckloads of money stealing the explorer and flying v shape and adding a bit of metal into them. I read somewhere that in order for Fender or Gibson to successfully sue a comapany they need to like use the of the specific guitars official brand name "stratocaster" or "les paul" and certain measurements in the headstock and whatnot. Is that true?

 

Early 70's called, want you to call them back when you get a chance.

 

rct

Posted

.

...

Body shapes can be copied when the patent runs out - anyone can copy the body shapes - which is basically what you've got now with both Gibson and Fender shapes.

 

.

There are countries where persistent utility patents apply to products after patent expiration. They never expire here in Germany. You are not allowed to copy a watch, camera, car or whatever and sell it here simply by using another brand name on it unless owning the original manufacturer or being owner of the rights otherwise - refer to the Gibson/Epiphone or Fender/Squier relationships.

Posted

I was told many years ago by the workers at Fender that "you can't patent the shape of a piece of wood". Don't know if its true or not.

 

The shape of the wood to a very fine degree, that is, anyone willing to sit down and measure it all, and find the infringer within whatever tolerances are established. Sorta like you can't restrict a box on wheels as a car, they all pretty much look alike basically. Like our hosts tried to stop Paul Reed from making single cut, switch up top, 4 knob, two humbucker guitars. You can't stop that.

 

It's the headstock shape, dimensions, the script used to write the name, the coloring and placement, all those things that say Tokai did by making "Love Rock" look ridiculously like "Les Paul" from a distance, or Ibanez writing their name in exactly the gold lettering and script such that the I actually looked like the F in the other company.

 

The headstock shapes and service marks were the content of the original legal stuff. If it looks like ours from <whatever reasonable distance was decided>, you can't do it. While it caused a lot of littler names to go away, it caused the stronger ones, Ibanez in particular, to start making their own guitars, and created the absolute plethora of original designs and copies that we have today.

 

rct

Posted

Gibson has sued before.. I believe that they did this to PRS on their single cut LP shaped models...

 

Gibsons argument was that on a stage the audience could mistake the two guitars..... And the judge at the time said something like "Only an idiot could not tell the difference between a LP and PRS at the point of sale"..

 

So you can make similar shaped guitars.. But when I was really studying the shape of guitars I realised that a LP is basically shaped like a traditional acoustic or classical guitar but with a cut away.

 

So check.... This looks pretty much just like a lot of acoustics which are based off classical guitars (imagine it without that cut away). The curves may be slightly different but the basic shape is there.

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remove the sound hole

Imawrwbwe3wrbwrbge2_zps61a55b4a.jpg

 

add some pickups.. and you have a Les Paul :)

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Posted

Then there's Fender threatening to sue Gibson which led to the reverse Firebird so maybe they can patent a piece of wood?

 

Either way, I'm glad Fender did as the reverse model is much better looking to my eyes.

 

 

 

Posted

Y'all got your points but what's the case of Rickenbacker? They supposedly have a very strict control of any copies of their guitars or basses. In fact even you can find a copy they're not very common. So if a smaller sized company like Rickenbacker can run things their way why can't Gibson or fender?

Posted
... what's the case of Rickenbacker? ...

Companies with "regular/traditional" style guitar bodies police headstocks and logos. Rickenbacker, with it's unusual and unique in the mainstream body shapes, is willing to spend the money to police headstocks, logos AND body shapes. But they can't stop everyone - particularly makers of illegal copies. There are some legit companies making Rickenbacker body clones and they tend to make the bodies just different enough to escape legal entanglements.

 

Ever heard of Duesenburg - - carefully skirting the edge.

 

c3spb.jpg . . c2spb.jpg

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