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LP Custom picking up radio station


Manfred33

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Posted

Hey all, I have an '06 Epi LP Custom that I bought a few years ago, and recently I have had an issue with the guitar picking up a radio station while plugged in and sitting in the stand. When I am playing it, it is not an issue really, but when i turn the volume down and put it in the stand or lay it down it will do this. Now, I have to add some more details to this that might affect answers....

When I bought the guitar, we lived in north GA and not real close to any radio stations that i am aware of, so never had an issue there. Now, we live across the street from a low-power FM and AM station(s), but with that being said, I have other guitars that are NOT picking up the radio station when plugged in, so that makes me doubt that the proximity has anything to do with it. I am guessing this is maybe a shielding issue, but makes me ask how this Epi LP Custom could possibly have a shielding issue, it is not a inexpensive/poor quality guitar, but I don't know. I don't know if a shielding problem can develop over time or what. I don't have that much knowledge of guitar electronics issues hence my posting here.... Anyways, would be great if I could get some spittballing about what this issue might be....or maybe it is really simple and no spitballing required.

On a different note, msp_tongue.gif i have a problem with the G string on this guitar as well, in that it does not like to stay in tune, specifically after I bend the string in any way or if it sits for a while. Don't quite understand this problem, as I have an Epi SG that also exhibits this issue. However, I had the nut replaced on the SG to a bone nut and although it still has the problem, it is not nearly as bad as the LP, which has the original factory nut. The guy that changed out the SG nut said that Epi uses plastic nuts which are not very good obviously, but is this a problem inherent to Epis? The G string not staying in tune? If not, what could possibly cause this problem? I have an Epi Casino that has no problem whatsoever....I love that guitar! Anyways, I realize this is not an "Electrics" issue per se, but wasn't gonna start another thread for it...

 

Thanks in advance!

Posted

So i haven't checked the message board in a week due to work and being busy, but I am really very dismayed and annoyed that I have not even managed to get one single response on this.... I mean, did I ask a stupid question? Is this not worthy of a reply? I just don't understand how there is so much discussed on this message board, topics of all kinds and no one has any contribution to my post at all?

Posted

If the electronics are otherwise in good shape, I'd consider copper shielding tape in the pickup & control cavities. You'd have to make sure you shield the "tunnels" that connect all the cavities as well, and you have to run a wire from the shielding to ground.Gotta be careful in the area of the jack though. If the prong makes contact with the shielding, you'll "ground out" and get no sound at all.

 

Could check the wiring harness while you're at it. If the guitar is bone-stock, the wiring may be acting as an antenna since I don't believe Epiphone uses shielded wire in their harnesses.

 

Sorry, that's all I got...

Posted

K, your dismay is noted, I remember seeing this and I didn't say anything, I should have.

 

The first thing I'll say is that one of us gets radio stations and one of us doesn't, and one of us lives across the street from a radio station and one of us doesn't.

 

So yes, proximity is the problem.

 

Other guitars are not doing it because they are, in one way or another, better shielded than your Epiphone. It isn't about cheapness or anything, shielding is something that just not every body does. Coupled with pickups not well potted, or not potted at all, amp to guitar proximity, and just general positioning of the guitar, and you have problems.

 

You don't say you are wireless, so I'm assuming you are not. The cable is a big antennae, so if that cable isn't doing it with other guitars, no matter what their relationship to the amp, it isn't the cable, it's back to the guitar.

 

You'll probably have to do some internet looking at how to shield and ground a guitar, and use the words radio station in your search. Others have overcome it, some have never managed to overcome it. Your entire electrical system in your house is another gigantic antennae, and it too can direct the radio station right out yer amp. But other guitars are not doing this, so that probably isn't too big a contributor.

 

Good luck with it. It's a tough one, it can be really pesky especially if recording. With some work on the guitar you will probably get past it.

 

The G problem being out of tune sounds like the nut. Put some pencil lead in there next string change. If that doesn't help. a very small file, even a nail file, will put enough width on the slot to stop the problem for the most part. If you file, move the string out of the slot, file only a little, put the string back in, tune up, wheedly wheedly wheedly, check tuning, rinse, repeat. You'll get it eventually, just don't want to go too all tough guy on the file job.

 

rct

Posted

Replace the original tuning keys with better "tuners" if the "graphite nut lube"msp_biggrin.gif doesn't work... mellow.gif Sounds like that one tuner is "slipping" dry.gif I just had the tuners on my 12 string replaced, a couple started "slipping" and it wouldn't stay in tune either angry.gif

6e8431ec-7e84-417d-b79e-37c4dbfc0106_zpsa0370f95.jpg

 

Posted

So i haven't checked the message board in a week due to work and being busy, but I am really very dismayed and annoyed that I have not even managed to get one single response on this.... I mean, did I ask a stupid question? Is this not worthy of a reply? I just don't understand how there is so much discussed on this message board, topics of all kinds and no one has any contribution to my post at all?

 

I'll reply to whichever threads i choose. [angry]

 

The answer to your question lies somewhere in RCT's post.

Posted

Treating plugs and jacks with a good contact cleaner would be what I did first.

 

Transition resistances caused by tarnish, sweat etc. between jacks and plugs, or dust within a pot between wiper and resistive track, may act as rectifier since most metal oxids actually are semiconductors. I always care for clean contacts and never experienced radio receiving with my own gear.

 

In general, it's never about a guitar, one of its parts, or any other single component working as a radio detector. Some combinations may accidentally build up one, others won't. The entire chain of pot - turned down in your case -, cable and subsequent input circuitry will have to work together when demodulating radio frequencies.

 

Hope this helps.

Posted

I'll reply to whichever threads i choose. [angry]

 

The answer to your question lies somewhere in RCT's post.

 

You know, i went back and I re-read my two posts and....., wait a second, hang on..... nope, nope, I don't see anywhere where I requested you by name.

Sooooo, thanks so much for your input, but you should have stuck to your guns and not posted at all....

Posted

To everyone else that provided useful input, which was everyone except Deeman.... THANK YOU. I do very much appreciate it. I have a pretty good knowledge of radio transmitters and receivers, but needed to have a better idea of what in a guitar's electronics could be causing this to happen and I know that shielding was one of the possible issues. So again, thank you, I will give some of these ideas some thought and decide which ones to try.

I don't like to go off on a rant, but when I see my post, which is legitimatley asking for help, get glossed over day after day, because "people choose what threads they want to post to" eusa_clap.gifeusa_wall.gif, and other threads get all kinds of responses, well, I get a bit riled up. SO, sorry for getting uppitty, just was looking for some help.

Posted

I forgot to add that some people cope with radio transmitters by using EMG or other active pickups. Something to think about.

 

Deeman is alright. He breaks guitars and stuff, but we overlook it.

 

Sometimes people just don't have an easy answer for a question. Sometimes it's a bit more complex than a simple paragraph and a fix that is 100%. Radios are a problem, often not easy to deal with, and that might make for scarce answers. It's a guitar forum, and it doesn't always make sense, so stay with it there Chief.

 

rct

Posted

Well, I understand that it wasn't an easy question to tackle, but I wasn't really looking for the 100% spot-on answer, just wanted a little brainstorming.... Especially with a question dealing with radio stations, there can't possibly be any right answer to every problem. I get the p/u thing, my Ibz has DiMarzios, a big reason (I am sure) why I don't have any problem with that guitar. The Epi Casino has P90s, not sure if that is the reason why it is not having issues. I don't necessarily want to change p/us, but again, something else to consider- I am not at all against it. I upgraded the Humbucker in my Strat that I love.

I am sure deeman is just fine, was just replying in kind..... It's good of you all to overlook his foibles. rolleyes.gif

Posted

Sometimes answers take longer to answer than were expected...but "eventually" an appropriate and polite reply will remedy the situation...be patient...might take a week or more to get the "right" answer...sometimes...dry.gif

Posted

I say fight fire with fire. get the biggest loudest amp possible and crank it so your guitar picks up on the radio station! :)

Posted

I forgot to add that some people cope with radio transmitters by using EMG or other active pickups. Something to think about.

...

rct

In my opinion, the most fascinating fact is that passive EMGs are very quiet, too. The TB-HZs I put into my Gibson EB 13 basses are the quietest magnetic pickups among all. No buzz when 10 cm or 4" close to a fluorescent light. The P90 Les Paul of a bandmate is buzzing like hell at fifteen times the space, and the Gibson and PRS humbuckers of another bandmate buzz as loud as the EMG-HZs of my bass with coil split engaged. The previous is referred to clean tones.

 

EMGs have a very effective shielding obviously. I guess doing that to other pickup makes would change their tone significantly, so I think it would be no sensible option. One has to decide between EMG or the rest so to say.

 

Of course, piezos clearly beat EMGs, but they will transduce body noise, too. So they are no real alternative for high-gain application. Anyway, blowing piezos through a VOX AC30 will deliver the tone of Keith Richards' "Jumpin' Jack Flash" intro. [biggrin]

Posted

I say fight fire with fire. get the biggest loudest amp possible and crank it so your guitar picks up on the radio station! :)

[biggrin][thumbup]

Posted

You know, i went back and I re-read my two posts and....., wait a second, hang on..... nope, nope, I don't see anywhere where I requested you by name.

Sooooo, thanks so much for your input, but you should have stuck to your guns and not posted at all....

 

I reread your second post and you did come off as somewhat entitled and that is why i responded the way I did. If you read my post i also told you that I seconded another posters' suggestions so i was being helpful as well as letting you know that people respond to what they find interesting or what they know.

 

Just relax, it's the internet.

Posted

I reread your second post and you did come off as somewhat entitled and that is why i responded the way I did. If you read my post i also told you that I seconded another posters' suggestions so i was being helpful as well as letting you know that people respond to what they find interesting or what they know.

 

Just relax, it's the internet.

 

Exactly. None of us here (or very few if any) are customer support representatives and we owe other folks here nothing. We do it out of kindness. If someone wants to get entitled and sulk, please do it elsewhere.

Posted

Well put Scott.

Often request for help threads get lots of views but hardly any response - which tends to mean no-one knows (or is sure enough of) the answer to have anything of value to add. Sometimes threads are just of little interest so no response. Its not intended as an insult to not respond if you have no interest/knowledge of the topic raised.

 

Hope you find a solution though as it would drive me nuts - unfortunately I don't have a clue so can't help at all.

Posted

I do hope OP gets it worked out. Definitely look at the copper tape for shielding. I shielded the crap out of both my guitars that aren't epis and it fixed a LOT of the noise problems with them. Oddly my Epi, in my sig, has zero issues with noise.

Posted

... I have a pretty good knowledge of radio transmitters and receivers, but needed to have a better idea of what in a guitar's electronics could be causing this to happen and I know that shielding was one of the possible issues. So again, thank you, I will give some of these ideas some thought and decide which ones to try.

...

... I wasn't really looking for the 100% spot-on answer, just wanted a little brainstorming.... Especially with a question dealing with radio stations, there can't possibly be any right answer to every problem. ...

It's not about a trivial task here, and experiences seem to be scarce and accidental as well. So except for the general usefulness of clean contact surfaces, my contribution was also just a guess.

 

I think the brainstorming attitude is the best one. Any good idea without evidence or explanation can be of help I believe.

Posted

I should have added that the copper shielding will do nothing about the 60 cycle hum you get from a single coil. Learned that with a few Strats, but it IS very effective at blocking radio and electrical interference provided it's done correctly.

 

As I said earlier, you'd have to get copper shielding with conductive adhesive (cheaper ways to do it, but then you have to solder all the shielding pieces together), then shield the pickup cavities and the tunnels that connect them and the tunnel that runs to the control cavity.Don't forget the control cavity itself. That's key to the shielding working at all. Make sure you extend the shielding about an 1/8 inch above the lip of the control cavity. You then fold this over the top of the lip where the cover mounting screw holes are. Trim it with an X-acto knife or something similar so nothing shows once you put the cover on.

 

You need to attach a wire to the foil somewhere out of the way and solder it to ground.

 

Shield that back of the cavity cover with the copper tape. Trim to fit with the X-acto.

 

Once you re-install the cover & screw it down, it becomes a part of the guitar's circuit. Essentially, you've built a Faraday cage around your electronic components and it WILL block radio and electronic noise from being picked up by your guitar.

 

Do NOT fall for, or buy into the "star grounding" nonsense. The way your pots are wired together is fine and you will NOT create a ground loop as long as your pickups are passive.

 

Just be sure when you re-install your pots, switches, etc. that no bare "hot" leads come in contact with the copper shielding or you'll have NO sound at all, and that's probably a bit more noise cancelling than you're looking for.

 

Good luck...

Posted

...

Do NOT fall for, or buy into the "star grounding" nonsense. The way your pots are wired together is fine and you will NOT create a ground loop as long as your pickups are passive.

...

Star grounding is the best way of doing it in any application. Remember that any conductive loop may act as antenna.

 

By the way, all of my Gibsons and Fenders came star grounded stock since decades. Most of them are passive.

Posted

If your amp has a switchable ground try flipping that bad boy.

 

If it is a frequency/antenna situation like capmaster describes you might try a different length cable. This would apply to FM.

 

If its the AM giving you the problem then shielding will help.

 

Σß

Posted

Star grounding is the best way of doing it in any application. Remember that any conductive loop may act as antenna.

 

By the way, all of my Gibsons and Fenders came star grounded stock since decades. Most of them are passive.

 

If you're talking about "star grounding" as being all the ground leads wired to the back of the volume pot, yes, you're correct. If you look at some of the websites that purport to walk you through shielding a guitar, a lot of them instruct you to disconnect all the grounding from the back of the pot (the idea being that they'll be grounded by contact with the shielding when you re-install them), and run all the ground leads (including the one from the input jack) to a small washer and ground them to the shielding itself. That's completely un-necessary. You can safely leave your wiring harness as is (unless you're replacing it) and re-install it in the guitar.

 

Star grounding certainly won't hurt anything, and truthfully looks much neater and makes for a tidier install, but functionally, there's no advantage to undoing your current harness and wiring all the grounds to the shield. As I said, a ground loop won't happen with passive pickups no matter how many ground points are in the cavity, so there's no need to over-complicate things if you decide to shield your guitar.

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