teach42 Posted October 26, 2014 Posted October 26, 2014 Looking to get my first acoustic and eyeing this find on CL: [http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/msg/4731543203.html/url] My only concern is that I can't find any references to a natural finish on an Epiphone anywhere! There's a Gibson with a natural finish, but I don't see any Epi ones in the interwebs. Think this a knock off??
cliffmac Posted October 26, 2014 Posted October 26, 2014 Looking to get my first acoustic and eyeing this find on CL: ["]http://chicago.craig...43203.html/url] My only concern is that I can't find any references to a natural finish on an Epiphone anywhere! There's a Gibson with a natural finish, but I don't see any Epi ones in the interwebs. Think this a knock off?? EJ160e only came in the sunburst finish and that dates back to 97 according to epiphone wiki
teach42 Posted October 26, 2014 Author Posted October 26, 2014 EJ160e only came in the sunburst finish and dates back to 97 according to epiphone wiki I saw that too. And that serial number doesn't look right for an Epi either, does it?
cliffmac Posted October 26, 2014 Posted October 26, 2014 I saw that too. And that serial number doesn't look right for an Epi either, does it? Not at all obviously because its just an epiphone someone thinks they can pull a fast one
el capitan Posted October 26, 2014 Posted October 26, 2014 Funnily enough I was looking at an old UK Guitar mag yesterday & a London dealer was advertising EJ160E's in sunburst & natural £319.(1997)
teach42 Posted October 26, 2014 Author Posted October 26, 2014 Funnily enough I was looking at an old UK Guitar mag yesterday & a London dealer was advertising EJ160E's in sunburst & natural £319.(1997) But was that Gibson or Epi? The Gibson has come in a few flavors, including natural. I can't seem to find any record of an Epi in natural. Which is too bad. I like the look of that a lot more than the Sunburst. And of course, that CL deal is a little too good to be true ;)
cliffmac Posted October 26, 2014 Posted October 26, 2014 But was that Gibson or Epi? The Gibson has come in a few flavors, including natural. I can't seem to find any record of an Epi in natural. Which is too bad. I like the look of that a lot more than the Sunburst. And of course, that CL deal is a little too good to be true ;) search the Gibson version and it comes in natural with drawings on it (not so much). It comes in a all white version as well
el capitan Posted October 26, 2014 Posted October 26, 2014 WHAT IS THIS THREAD ABOUT? Who would make fake epi's? There was a J160E by Vintage,different headstock,now discontinued(like the Epi)
Gralst Posted October 26, 2014 Posted October 26, 2014 In about 1999 I bought a half dozen Epiphone Texans and a half dozen Epiphone EJ-160E Epiphones (from c.1997) from Music 123 on a scratch and dent deal to flip on E Bay. Four of the Texans and three of the EJ-160E were in natural. The serial numbers were obliterated (to void warranty claims)on some but on the one or two of the Texans there were 1995-1997 Peerless numbers and on a couple of the EJ-160Es that I could tell were 1997 Samick numbers... and I later learned they were discontinued to avoid cutting into the sales of an Epiphone "Peace Model" that was planned (I don't know if there ever was an Epiphone Peace Model) but as I recall the Gibson versions tanked so they may have lost the idea about an Epiphone version. The guitars I bought were fully functional but cosmetically disfigured. I sold them on E Bay for between $180 and $220 (The EJ-160E fetched a bit more but I don't recall any exact amounts for any of them)...so, yes, Virginia. There were natural EJ-160Es and natural Korean-made Texans...well, whatta y'know ...
el capitan Posted October 26, 2014 Posted October 26, 2014 Thanks,Graist. Japanese Epi's (elitist/maccas)Korean Excellentes.Excellent! Chinese Texans ej160e's.....hmmmmmmm...ok for the money. A Kalamazoo guitar -literally another world.
teach42 Posted October 26, 2014 Author Posted October 26, 2014 In about 1999 I bought a half dozen Epiphone Texans and a half dozen Epiphone EJ-160E Epiphones (from c.1997) from Music 123 on a scratch and dent deal to flip on E Bay. Four of the Texans and three of the EJ-160E were in natural. The serial numbers were obliterated (to void warranty claims)on some but on the one or two of the Texans there were 1995-1997 Peerless numbers and on a couple of the EJ-160Es that I could tell were 1997 Samick numbers... and I later learned they were discontinued to avoid cutting into the sales of an Epiphone "Peace Model" that was planned (I don't know if there ever was an Epiphone Peace Model) but as I recall the Gibson versions tanked so they may have lost the idea about an Epiphone version. The guitars I bought were fully functional but cosmetically disfigured. I sold them on E Bay for between $180 and $220 (The EJ-160E fetched a bit more but I don't recall any exact amounts for any of them)...so, yes, Virginia. There were natural EJ-160Es and natural Korean-made Texans...well, whatta y'know ... Wow. That's pretty interesting. So based on the pics you can see in the ad from the original post, you think it looks legit? If so, I think that's gotta be a decent deal.
teach42 Posted October 27, 2014 Author Posted October 27, 2014 Wow. That's pretty interesting. So based on the pics you can see in the ad from the original post, you think it looks legit? If so, I think that's gotta be a decent deal. Did some more research. Saw the Used stamped on the headstock which seems to indicate that it was sent to mirc and refurbished there. That's why the serial number doesn't match Epi numbering. They give it a new serial to prevent anyone from going back to Epi for warranty work. So it looks like it is legit after all, just a Peerless factory second in a color that seems largely undocumented. Gonna take a look at it Tuesday! Thanks for the help!
cliffmac Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Funnily enough I was looking at an old UK Guitar mag yesterday & a London dealer was advertising EJ160E's in sunburst & natural £319.(1997) from what I can see the naturals come with signatures and cartoonie drawings, totally ruined the finish of a gorgeous guitar.
cliffmac Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 In about 1999 I bought a half dozen Epiphone Texans and a half dozen Epiphone EJ-160E Epiphones (from c.1997) from Music 123 on a scratch and dent deal to flip on E Bay. Four of the Texans and three of the EJ-160E were in natural. The serial numbers were obliterated (to void warranty claims)on some but on the one or two of the Texans there were 1995-1997 Peerless numbers and on a couple of the EJ-160Es that I could tell were 1997 Samick numbers... and I later learned they were discontinued to avoid cutting into the sales of an Epiphone "Peace Model" that was planned (I don't know if there ever was an Epiphone Peace Model) but as I recall the Gibson versions tanked so they may have lost the idea about an Epiphone version. The guitars I bought were fully functional but cosmetically disfigured. I sold them on E Bay for between $180 and $220 (The EJ-160E fetched a bit more but I don't recall any exact amounts for any of them)...so, yes, Virginia. There were natural EJ-160Es and natural Korean-made Texans...well, whatta y'know ... true but according to epiphone wiki they were very very cheaply made plastic buttons cheap glue parts and the headstocks were off but yes Samik was contracted to make some. I stand corrected
cliffmac Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Wow. That's pretty interesting. So based on the pics you can see in the ad from the original post, you think it looks legit? If so, I think that's gotta be a decent deal. if you want a cheap *** guitar carpenters glue and plastics
Gralst Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Wow. That's pretty interesting. So based on the pics you can see in the ad from the original post, you think it looks legit? If so, I think that's gotta be a decent deal. I haven't seen the original post's photos or text (I get an error message) so I can't say. I can say with absolute certainty that there were natural EJ-160Es made so it's very likely legitimate. I can also say the natural versions were made right along side the sunburst ones using the exact same materials and I believe they're still made in Indonesia by Samick. Both versions also had goofy looking signatures. The "graphics" someone previously referred to were on the Gibson "Peace Model". which were a limited run of seven hundred and fifty and these had a really lofty price tag. I can't tell you if the guitar you have under consideration is a good deal because I have no idea what is being asked for it. I wouldn't worry about it being a counterfeit but it is possible that it's a "B" stock or "Second". As I said, in the early days of being on E Bay I bought and sold quite a few guitars and there were a lot (especially Epiphones) of second quality instruments some Internet outlets were selling wholesale and the flaws could be anything from a ding received in shipping to an impossibly twisted neck or mis-placed bridge so one does take their chances with such deals. I will say one thing. I go back to when the Gibson J-160E was a ladder-braced, laminated bodied odd ball that didn't make a particularly good acoustic or electric guitar. Most of the interest was and still is because of the Beatle connection. About ten years ago I was able to A/B the Epiphone solid top version against what I think was the Gibson "Historic" (ladder-braced)version. As an acoustic guitar the Epiphone sounded "better" (whatever "better" means)and neither one sounded particularly good electrified. I never wanted a J-160E but I spent a lot of years lusting for an Everly Brothers J-185 and the day came when I owned one and the reality didn't live up to the lusting. Just saying it's always a good idea to get some hands-on experience with the considered guitar before going for it. As far as Epi-Wiki goes, it's a noble project and the guy behind it should be proud of his endeavor but at the end of the day it is actually just a compilation of catalog and marketing specs and subject to the errors found in marketing and catalog copy as well as the exaggeration and accentuation of the positive aspects of the product. I know Epi-Wiki makes every effort for accuracy but that isn't always possible or even reasonable to expect when the source material's intent was marketing hyperbole and not product specification documentation.
byrds1965 Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Looking to get my first acoustic and eyeing this find on CL: [http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/msg/4731543203.html/url] My only concern is that I can't find any references to a natural finish on an Epiphone anywhere! There's a Gibson with a natural finish, but I don't see any Epi ones in the interwebs. Think this a knock off?? The link goes to nothing for me. If this is an Epiphone: I own one too also stamped a used. Guessing like another said mine is a late 90s Samick or Peerless made. My Peerless 2005 shares the same exact body as this but the Natural has a larger headstock and different font on the Epiphone inlay so I lean towards the Samick plant made. Yes Epiphone did make the EJ160E in both Natural and Burst. The 90s early 2000s Samicks and Peerless models I have seen use the same exact body as the new IB Texans. If the body shape is the same as the current IB Texan I would say legit too without being able to see. If close go and see and play it. If you know Epiphones every factory varies and still does but if anything looks crude or misspelling like in name on headstock obvious fake. Most of the fakes I have seen, very few, pretty obvious they were fakes. One last thing the sigs on the EJ160Es vary from looking like ballpoint pen to wide paintpen looking . The early Peerless and Samick made ones, the John Lennon sig very sharp like a gold ballpoint pen sig. Should have added my Natural is in Black and my Burst has the Gold sig both look identical in script. Hope that helps.
byrds1965 Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 In about 1999 I bought a half dozen Epiphone Texans and a half dozen Epiphone EJ-160E Epiphones (from c.1997) from Music 123 on a scratch and dent deal to flip on E Bay. Four of the Texans and three of the EJ-160E were in natural. The serial numbers were obliterated (to void warranty claims)on some but on the one or two of the Texans there were 1995-1997 Peerless numbers and on a couple of the EJ-160Es that I could tell were 1997 Samick numbers... and I later learned they were discontinued to avoid cutting into the sales of an Epiphone "Peace Model" that was planned (I don't know if there ever was an Epiphone Peace Model) but as I recall the Gibson versions tanked so they may have lost the idea about an Epiphone version. The guitars I bought were fully functional but cosmetically disfigured. I sold them on E Bay for between $180 and $220 (The EJ-160E fetched a bit more but I don't recall any exact amounts for any of them)...so, yes, Virginia. There were natural EJ-160Es and natural Korean-made Texans...well, whatta y'know ... Mine looks the exact same as the photo here. Mine also has a "white" typed thing sticker over the Epiphone sticker in the guitar as the poster and you guys mention but I can't see from the post. I would guess as discussed they wanted to try out had some made up and then got rid of them. I bought mine as stamped as a USED used from GC when I saw one pop up. One last thing to help tell if fake: I have only seen them with the 15th fret inlay as in this photo. LARGE! The early Peerless and Samick made one are exactly like this exactly like the Gibson. The current EJ160Es I see now with better body shape do the NARROW fret at the 15th. Hope all this helps you.
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