Collector etiquette

[Gibson Artist]

I was watching a video today where a collector of vintage equipment said one of the things collectors do not like or find rude is when the buyer asks what they paid for the item. they do not mind if you know what the general blue book price of an item is, but they do not like to disclose what they themselves payed for the purchase price.

 

Then it hit me, 2 weeks ago in a thread or 2 i had asked a few people here what they paid for some old classic 30s Gibsons and could not figure out why nobody replied to me? Just wanted to take the time to apologize, i did not know the rules of etiquette when it comes to antique guitars. If there are any other advice you could give on buying vintage instruments id love to hear it.

[blindboygrunt]

That's because they pay over the odds because the desire to have it is greatest

[capmaster]

In my opinion, a collector neither would admit a bargain. I think that keeping prices silent is an unwritten code of honour among collectors.

 

Joe Bonamassa for sure is a player, not a collector. The price he paid at Guitar Point, Maintal, Germany, for his 1960 Les Paul named Runt was published but seems to be off the web meanwhile. Anyway, I remember it had been said to be 240,000 EUR.

[jedzep]

I guess I missed the topic, because I've always welcomed trading price ranges. It's not like we're all in a small circle of access to old guitars. They exist far and wide. Some guys take the vintage/antique trade too seriously, and not just with instruments, but I love to hear about incredible finds as well as a guitar bought a little high because of the great desire to have.

 

I paid $1950 for my '35 L00 and a cool $1000 for the '31 L0. They both had issues that I'm more than happy to tackle. More if you want.

 

There's no etiquette. Just ask and see what happens.

[BluesKing777]

There's probably an element of humiliation and embarassment after they realise what they did in the heat of the hunt!

 

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

[milod]

I think we're all different, whether it's about talking cash on guitar collecting or how many cattle we have.

 

Some of us might brag about this good "find" and may or may not say how much. Others... It's just taken care of at home whatever is to be done or not done with it.

 

m

[tpbiii]

I am a collector and I feel that way. But I think it is more because I was raised hillbilly than because I collect. We generally raise minding our own business to an art form.

 

Let's pick,

 

-Tom

[Joe M]

I once had a collector tell me he always said he paid less than what he had when he bought a guitar and always more than actual when he sold one....😜

[skilsaw]

I don't think it is ever good etiquette to ask how much something cost.

Real estate, vehicles,divorces,charitable contributions, weddings and funerals are all off base. Collections are the same.

 

If a person wants you to know, they'll tell you. And sometimes it is just as bad for them to bring up what they paid.

 

Maybe I'm stuffy old school.

[DenverSteve]

I don't think it is ever good etiquette to ask how much something cost. Real estate, vehicles,divorces,charitable contributions, weddings and funerals are all off base. Collections are the same... Maybe I'm stuffy old school.

 

I think this is right. No one wants to be asked what they paid for their possessions. Even if they say they "scored a great deal" on something, that great deal is relative to what they believe is a great deal - and not what someone else thinks. Asking what someone paid for something is just not done unless they are a good friend and they say, "guess what I paid for this?".

[bobouz]

I think we're all different, whether it's about talking cash on guitar collecting or how many cattle we have.

Quite true.

 

I don't like to talk or think much about money.

But I've got a friend who lives to chat about it.

 

Finally had to tell him that it bores the hell out of me!

[zombywoof]

Never been much of a collector. But I have been outrageously lucky when it comes to guitars to the point where there is really only one I am seeking. Not a terribly expensive one so just got to find it. With prices often all over the board though, talking about money spent does help folks who are looking for some kind of a yardstick to figure out what is a killer, average, or terrible price tag.

[Frances50]

I don't mind if it's a genuine question from someone who is thinking about buying a similar guitar from the same dealer/seller. Then I do a private message and discuss it that way.

[QuestionMark]

I own about 39 instruments in my collection. Only a handful were purchased new. I have found that the only time other collectors do not like talking about what they paid for instruments in their collection is when they are dealing at the moment on a possible purchase or sale. A seller will usually just reply to an offer with something vague (and part of the negotiation) like I have that much or more than that into it or, as part of the negotiation say they have X dollars into it already...which if they are honest was their purchase price and fixup price on it. Sometimes, of course its just negotiation, too.

 

Othewise, if not in a purchase/sale negotiation...depending on the tone of the conversation I haven't really found collectors to find it poor etiquette to discuss what they bought or sold at. But, it depends on the tone of the conversation and intimacy (or lack of) of the collection conversation.

 

I know I love telling people I bought my 1956 NY Epiphone FT30 (pre-Texan) for $400 or that I bought a 1965 Gibson B45 12 for only $350 then even traded it for a used $1000 1994 Gibson Gospel Reissue and then how the buyer sold the B45 for $1700...but, how it took 18 months to do so (something I didn't want to put up with and that I wanted the Gospel Reissue.) I've also had other collectors tell me how they bought such and such for such and such when it was selling for high in the market, but that they sold it at a loss to use the proceeds to obtain another instrument they wanted.

 

I even saw George Gruhn at a vintage guitar show once and we both briefly traded buy/sell pricing stories in line with the market conditions at purchase time vs. the present market at the time with no reservations.

 

Owning annually updated and past versions of Vintage Guitar Magazine's Vintage Guitar Guide Book and being familiar with high/low prices in the present and past is always a helpful necessity in the guitar collectability world as most guitar collectors do...and, then the conversations on guitar prices freely flows because each party knows the other knows the values already. Rarely have I found the Blue Book of Vintage Guitar prices is the point of credibility, but usually the second source of data. George Gruhn's book doesn't describe prices, but past guitar features...always a helpful source between collectors to know specs of model years.

Having VG Mag Vintage Guitar Guide in hand when discussing past/present sale purchase prices is also always okay.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Jazzman Jeff aka QM

,

[Jayyj]

I've met examples of collectors who don't discuss prices, and collectors who talk about nothing but. My least favourite collector is the one who won't shut up about the killer price he got on sone rarer than hen's teeth guitar but somehow never mentions how it sounds or played: and you know he's exactly the type who sees grandma selling her husband's pre-war D28 for $20 at a yard sale, sucks his teeth and offers her $10 because, you know, it's pretty beat up and he's really only buying it out of charity. I much prefer the guys who blush when you ask how much they paid and say "Well, it was way too much really, but once I'd played it I just couldn't bring myself to leave without it".

 

On a forum? I don’t see any harm or rudeness in asking - if people don't want to share they won't post. Personally I'm happy sharing if someone wants to know.

[L5Larry]

.... and you know he's exactly the type who sees grandma selling her husband's pre-war D28 for $20 at a yard sale, sucks his teeth and offers her $10 because, you know, it's pretty beat up and he's really only buying it out of charity.

 

This is exactly how the "vintage" guitar business was born back in the early/mid 70's. And on top of that, the "seed" funds (pun intended), usually came from selling recreational smokey treats.

[gottabetweed]

Because most collectors collect for the love of the item. Discussing price takes away from the appreciation of the item for the item's sake, and takes it to an investment/monetary discussion. Not all collectors are rich. They may overextend themselves, or overpay for a highly prized, rare item. Asking them how much it cost takes them back to the acquisition, and not to the pride of owning the item.

 

Plus it is just classless.

[jannusguy2]

recreational smokey treats.

 

Yay for recreational smokey treats! You don't mean Slim Jims, right?

[j45nick]

Yay for recreational smokey treats! You don't mean Slim Jims, right?

 

 

What, you think he means something else? Let's see, what could that be.......? Bacon?

[QuestionMark]

Because most collectors collect for the love of the item. Discussing price takes away from the appreciation of the item for the item's sake, and takes it to an investment/monetary discussion. Not all collectors are rich. They may overextend themselves, or overpay for a highly prized, rare item. Asking them how much it cost takes them back to the acquisition, and not to the pride of owning the item.

 

Plus it is just classless.

 

Totally agree with your first paragraph.

 

Regarding the classless aspect...it really depends on the situation. It might also depend on whether it is one collector talking to another as well as what they in collecting for. If I am at a vintage guitar show, the majority of people there are collectors talking and hanging out there for the same reason...so there is a bond where most collectors (at booths or at the event) freely talk to one another about what they paid and are selling at...just as a matter of shop talk.

 

At the music jam I run, people regularly show off their latest new or used acquisition and tell fellow jammers what they paid for it...all with their love and excitement of having the instrument outshining whatever they paid for it...as no one cares.

 

I could see, however, in some environments a stranger asking another stranger how much they paid for their instrument and getting a startled/stonewalled-like response for example if someone approached me at a gig and didn't talk about my music or guitar collecting, but just jumped in with asking me how much I paid for my guitar. I guess if I were selling a guitar, I might not share that info, if I had no idea of the other person's knowledge of collectable instruments. For example, I have some guitars that I bought in the early 90s when I was collecting guitars (before there was the so-called collectable guitar market and before everyone thought every old guitar was collectable, when they are not.) As its possible someone who has only been playing guitar and having G.A.S for 3 years may not understand if I say I bought a guitar for $280 in 1991 for it and would be open to selling it for $900. Rather, I would focus on how much VG Mag's Vintage Guitar Guide shows the high/low of guitar is now. On the other hand, if the 3 year guitar owner/G.A.S. inflictee demonstrates a knowledge of past and present and potentially (one never knows) future values of instruments in terms of collectability and love of the instruments...I certainly would share how much I purchased the guitar for in 1991 as well as to demonstrate how some models have historically gone up in price in the collectable market (referencing, of course, that some also have not.) That would be good bonding with a potential buyer/seller, not anything considered classless if they asked.

 

What people forget is there is owning and playing a guitar and then there is owning and playing and collecting guitars and then there is owning and playing and collecting guitars in the collectable guitar market...with only fine often grey lines separating all three (and, of course, none of the perspectives better than one another, just different.)

 

This goes on in any collectable item marketplace...whether it be car collectors, gun collectors, civil war item collectors, salt and pepper shaker collectors, antique collectors, etc. ie. Owning and driving a car and driving and owning multiple cars is different than driving, owning, and collecting cars. I am not a car collector. It would be weird if someone asked me how much I paid for my 2001 SUV if I was selling it. If I was a Corvette collector talking with another Corvette collector, it would be common practice among collectors to talk about how much one was purchased for, how much time/money was put into it, what its now worth or selling for...etc. Hope this illustrates how its not classless to discuss such in one environment, but might be in another.

 

Jazzman Jeff aka QM

[tvguit]

I wouldn't consider the question rude but I also wouldn't expect an answer unless you know the collector well. Cash flow is a sensitive subject in all fields, not just in guitars.

 

Websites like Gbase.com, Reverb.com and Vintageandrare.com can be very helpful resources in assessing values in the vintage guitar market. The Vintage Guitar Price Guide is also a great resource: http://www.amazon.com/Official-Vintage-Guitar-Price-Magazine/dp/1884883346/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1416177826&sr=8-1&keywords=vintage+guitar+price+guide

 

My 2015 price guide should be here on Tuesday. It's fun to track changes in value for both the market as a whole and individual models/years.

[Dave F]

 

My 2015 price guide should be here on Tuesday..

 

 

Got mine a week ago and as I usually do I passed on last years to a friend.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[62burst]

To the OP (Gibson Artist)- no apology necessary, though decent of you to offer one. Did not see your original post in the other thread where you were looking for recent sale info on '30's Gibson small body flat tops. The reasons for lack of replies are probably as varied as the state of each guitar, buyer, and/or seller. Generally figure on around $3K +/- 10% for private sales, more towards 4K for established dealers. Sometimes a question in a thread gets buried with new replies, or sometimes people value humility and actually find the number of guitars they have accumulated to be a bit of an embarrassment, trying to deal with a messed up guitar priority in an era of a tough economy where frugality bests the ostentatious. Or maybe most folk in these parts have more recent guitars, and don't have experience with the particular guitar in question.

 

To John S (tvguit) - Love the 1948 SJ-200 you recently got in. The photos of that one pretty much define the beautiful patina that an old instrument can have. Also- didn't get to tell you how cool, your recent sale of the L-00 to Jeff Tweedy. Now the little guitar will be heard by thousands. Just bears witness to those of us who play guitars that are only a year or two old, how we are merely stewards of these "future vintage" instruments, and never know who will be playing them someday, or what songs they will sing.

[Dotneck]

I don't think there is any problem for someone trying to determine the current market value of any item. But I do find it rude (usually) to ask someone what they paid for an item. I think it just as rude for folks to brag about what they they paid for the item (doesn't matter if they paid a lot or a little). Other folks may feel differently but that's the way I feel...

[QuestionMark]

Think in' about it, the tone of the conversation and how things are said would have a lot to do with different perspectives. Anyone bragging would of course be rude. As would asking about price in a rude manner. Sharing information in a friendly manner when asked in a friendly manner between guitarists or collectors can be just what it is, a friendly sharing of info if either feels comfortable about sharing such. Yes?