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shakey64

NECKS on Epi Dots: are they all chunky? vs Sheraton?

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Got the itch , again for an EPI DOT. Ive previously owned 2..a cherry and natural..2007 and 2011. Love the guitar and sound, but couldnt bond with the chunky beefy necks. Playing solo's from about 8-14 fret area was not too comfortable for my smaller

hands. On the last Dot , I actually got a cramp...so away it went to Ebay, like the previous Dot. But, I still miss the sound! Someone told me..."Check out the Sheratons..they have slim taper necks"..and another guy..said..No , they are about the same. Be great if they were a tad thinner.

Also..i read other day...that the older Korean models of Epi Dots, have thinner necks..is that true? Compared to the newer 2000 later CHina models?

thanks!

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I just got a 2001 sheraton ii and it has a very comfy slim neck. It's my first Epi and my first semi-hollow so I can't compare to those. It feels very simalar if not thinner than my 60's style gibson les paul neck. I love it.

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Never had a dot but my first 335 pro had a huge neck compared to any of my Sherrys. Now the ice tea 335 pro I just got has a slim neck so I think it varies by guitar but the Sheratons do tend to have slimer necks.

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that's kind of weird. the DOT PRO haven't even been out that long..maybe over a year?? You've had one with a chunky neck and one with a thinner neck>? Seems crazy. Id like to try one out. I just called my nearest Guitar Center...and they have NO DOTS in stock..next GC is 3 hours away. I might just have to take a gamble. Im curious to know how much better the new DOT PRO pickups are compared to the older 2000 era DOTS.

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I think the pros have been around since 2012 that's what year my first one was I sold it to get an ice tea one and its brand new. I really like the different sounds you can get with the pros coil tapping, but I also like the standard pickups in both my sherry 2s..so try if you can every guitar even in the same models are different creatures.

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Can't speeak for the Sherry, but I have an '08 Dot (China) and it's neck is "chunky". I also have a 2010 Elitist Casino (Japan) that has just the greatest slim neck. Unless I'm mistaken, Dot's are "known" for "fat" necks.

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Funny...

 

I have two relatively recent Dots... neither would have what I'd call a clunky neck.

 

Then again, I think a lotta that's subjective.

 

m

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I had a new natural Dot and a new Dot Deluxe about three years ago. They had "chunky" necks. I recently bought a 2005 cherry Dot and guess what? It has a chunky neck. As an earlier poster noted, Dots are known for fat necks. They are very comfortable necks for me, since I have big hands. (I like wide necks on acoustic guitars too.)

IMG_1256_zps487d144c.jpg

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Hi guys... Just wanted to chime in on the Dot 'chunky neck' issue. I have a blonde Dot that I absolutely love (Imperial tuners, graphite nut, roller bridge and SD 59's) but I can only play it for limited amounts of time due to the size of the neck. So I alternate between it and my orange Wildkat which has a neck that feels much more comfortable to me. How does the Casino neck compare to the neck on a Dot? Is it as beefy?

I also have an Epi ES-175 that I am considering upgrading since that guitar also has a neck that seems to fit my hands comfortably. Is anyone using one of these as an all-around guitar? What mods have you performed?

I know I've asked a lot of questions, but any input I can get will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

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Hi guys... Just wanted to chime in on the Dot 'chunky neck' issue. I have a blonde Dot that I absolutely love (Imperial tuners, graphite nut, roller bridge and SD 59's) but I can only play it for limited amounts of time due to the size of the neck. So I alternate between it and my orange Wildkat which has a neck that feels much more comfortable to me. How does the Casino neck compare to the neck on a Dot? Is it as beefy?

I also have an Epi ES-175 that I am considering upgrading since that guitar also has a neck that seems to fit my hands comfortably. Is anyone using one of these as an all-around guitar? What mods have you performed?

I know I've asked a lot of questions, but any input I can get will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

I've played several Casinos and owned a couple. The necks were not nearly as fat as a Dot.

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Thanks Rockabillybob. I was hoping there would be an alternative to simply selling the Dot and calling it a day. I love the feel of the guitar, I just have an issue with the size of the neck. Having been taught the 'proper' left-hand position (thumb behind the neck) doesn't offer much relief either. Looks like I'll be checking out a Casino and possibly putting the Dot up for sale... Thanks again.

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verhfrank

 

First, I do NOT think the neck on the dot is all that different from others - BUT... I think it feels that way because of the overall shape of the instrument and how its geometry may fit with a given player.

 

My own arms are shorter than dress shirt companies manufacture sleeve lengths that fit. My hands are small/average.

 

The Dot "feels" as if the neck is longer than its scale, and because of that for me (and others?) it also seems as if the nut is narrower.

 

I exchanged several emails with Jim R, the Epi chief, on this. We checked measurements and ... nope, all was in spec.

 

But... if you look at the instrument and match it with player geometry, you often will find the fretting hand reaching farther to get to the nut. That also does actually give the feel of a "chunky' neck due to the particular geometry involved.

 

Some similar size/shape guitars have very different geometry.

 

Casino? Compare where the bridge is placed on a Casino compared to a Dot, and you'll see a fairly significant difference. It's to the "rear" of the guitar body and "F-hole" centers on a Casino; toward the neck and "above" the "F-hole" centers on a Casino.

 

That's a very significant difference in player geometry - and the neck itself need not have anything to do with it.

 

On the Dot, it's enough of a difference that I have my two Dots for specific purposes that generally would have me fretting at the third or higher frets for the majority of a given gig or practice session.

 

OR - one can adjust to the guitar shape/size a bit by checking out how BB, for example, holds Lucille, or how Joe Pass holds any guitar. It's not held horizontally at knee level, for sure. It's lower at the right side of the body and that changes the angle for the left to play.

 

I understand what you're saying in terms of barre thumb positioning, but there's more to an appropriate physical angle than the fingers of the left hand. The guitar body can/should be held at angles to allow that, at least more or less. Since a lotta electric players use their thumb to fret the bottom string while using a "stranglehold" to form a barred "E," you can see how we're getting into different areas/concepts of technique.

 

Frankly I also prefer the 175 shape and geometry for my own solo playing, regardless of style (excepting bluegrass or "old time" strumming performance) - but not for country/rock/blues/jazz.

 

Yes, I use, and have used, a 175 or similar size archtop playing rock, country and blues gigs.

 

It will feed back depending on how the venue is set up with amps/PA or whatever. It definitely will feed back if you're playing with a big amp blowing at your behind at high volume levels. And - although one might play games, that's part of a hollowbody's weakness that brought first the 175, then solidbodies and semis as amps grew more powerful through the late '40s and '50s.

 

It need not feedback in most venues at moderate volumes (as in, you don't really need ear plugs but it's loud) depending on how/where you set up the amp/pa system.

 

Mods? I know I'll be seen by some as showing my age, but if it ain't broke, I ain't gonna try to fix it. For those who enjoy a guitar hobby other than simply playing, it's obviously a lotta fun, regardless of costs or perceived benefits. Me, I'm more interested in playing my stuff. One might note that, as Segovia stated, the guitar can be an entire orchestra - but that depends on the player's technique. It's shocking to some folks how much difference in tone can come simply through varying technique.

 

m

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As a total newbie with a week old natural dot, which I love, I'm a bit concerned that I may have made learning to play from scratch more difficult than necessary. I'm in no position to comment as others have as, although I tried several guitars, all the necks felt pretty much the same to me, in my innocence. Should I be worried? At my age - 62 - I need all the help I can get as my hands aren't as mobile as they were 40 years ago.

 

Not to put too fine a point on, I am fretting about my decision..............

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rlw...

 

hey, only 62? Wanna swap ages? <grin>

 

Basically we're talking about things from a cupla different perspectives.

 

First, I can fingerpick "classical gas," my own version of Joplin's "the entertainer," and some Bach on the Dot with no problem. Just not quite as easily as on the ES175 that has very different body proportions. It's marvelous for me, and I use it in preference to the 175, in the occasional "electric band" gig or jam whether it's rock, blues or country. I'm kinda eclectic in taste along those lines.

 

Second, a lot has to do with how you're going to play the instrument and what you expect to learn how to play.

 

Third, you don't say a word about your own physical geometry - 'cuz that can have a bit of difference in teaching a very beginner how to hold the guitar, etc. Not the end of the world by any means. Back when I was teaching some folks here and there, I'd get very specific on what was expected after lessons - and would see the instrument strung, set up AND held in an appropriate manner.

 

Fourth, the recent Dots I've seen - and I purchased two in the last cupla years myself - are almost certainly one of the best electric guitar values in the marketplace today. Yeah, a lotta folks will nitpick that in 1999 they were "better" or that this or that specification changed. And Epi did do some upgrades to the electric stuff on Dots a cupla years ago too. No big deal - it's a heck of a deal. Enough that I have two, which might tell you something.

 

So... fear not, unless you want to specialize in Bach or flamenco or acoustic bluegrass/old time, (both normally played on flattop guitars designed for those styles), the Dot is probably more versatile than most, if not all other electrics. Some guys may argue that but...

 

m

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Milod... Thank you for your insightful analysis of what I at first perceived as a problem and now see as just something in need of a different approach. As a life-long Strat player having only recently been converted to 'the other kind of guitar', I thought I was prepared for a certain period of adjustment... Turns out that I'm not, but in a good way because some of the things you allude to (such as posture, hand position and technique) are things that we all should re-evaluate every once in a while. And honestly, it's better than what I feared the alternative was. I am 54 years old and have been playing for a long time so the thought of developing arthritis lived real close to the surface! So, I'm keeping the Dot and will be adjusting my guitar strap LOL!

 

I also plan on seeing how far I can go with the 175. As I mentioned. As I mentioned, it has THE most comfortable neck of any guitar I own and it seems a shame to relegate it strictly to at-home playing.

 

rlw... Be assured that you made a great choice in the Dot and don't let my issues influence how you relate to it.

 

Thanks again fot all the responses!

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My opinion on the 175 is that there is no better guitar for a solo gig if you're doing kinda pop/swing/jazz variations of instrumental or vocal.

 

OTOH, that's largely because appropriately messed with, it can sound almost like any other sort of guitar. A solo gig isn't gonna howl at 250 decibels for feedback, you can balance mike and guitar pretty easily.

 

So... where it may not be the best for some environments, it's marvelous for others.

 

I think one's head plays a role too. I simply "think" more single string and double stop material with the Dot - and more "classical technique" with the 175! 'Splain that one... <grin>

 

m

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Thanks for your comments.

 

Its just a bit daunting being right at the bottom of the curve and I don't want to make it any more difficult for myself than it needs to be. I feel a lot more comfortable again and just determined to master the thing.

 

Of course, I should have started years ago but never felt confident enough to try. Now, I'm going for it.

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rlw...

 

Good luck but...

 

With all due respect I think playing guitar has much in common with horseback riding. One might always become more skilled, and one with talent will find that developing such skills will come more easily.

 

But I'd question that anyone truly masters any musical instrument regardless of talent and skill. It's a matter of achieving our own potential; and that's a never-ending process.

 

OTOH, there's a magic when something "works." And it will, with just a little effort and a lot of smiles when each small step toward skill development is achieved.

 

m

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rlw, I agree, you should make it as easy as possible to learn and progress. If a guitar doesn't feel right, it's a struggle to enjoy and learn. You shouldn't fret (excuse the pun), but give yourself and the guitar a chance to bond. I like the Dot because it has a fat neck and I have big hands. It suits me, but it may not suit all. I've even found the Dot is a challenge on some fretboard stretches. It won't be my primary guitar, so it doesn't concern me too much. Again, it's the goal of feeling comfortable with the instrument, feeling like you're in control and the guitar (or neck) isn't dictating what you play. Would you agree?

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I'll add, though, that IMHO, "no" guitar will feel all that comfortable for the beginner.

 

Playing 'til the fingers tingle, then laying off until that quits, then back again... over an hour's session or so of an evening... then the same only two hours... then as you're playing more than half the time with that "rule," drop back so you're actually playing about an hour.

 

m

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Thanks for all the comments regard the DOT neck. Well.....my Epi ES 335 PRO arrived yesterday.

 

YES, the neck is different than my previous 3 DOTS....I think were 2004,2008. 2011..THis is more like the slim taper neck on my EPI faded vintage SG. I noticed right away at the nut..and also the higher frets. I played about an hour or more...and felt great...no hand cramps..haha. This is the neck for me.. Oh..the date is june 2012...so it was one of the first models I believe. So, I guess they were not all chunky when the first batch came out.

 

PICS on the way.

 

 

 

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