david123 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Hi guys, I have really weird 1962 Gibson ES355TD which I have never seen, its like Barney Kessel but with two inputs and selector like 355 and it says inside the label ES355TD I have made tons of pics with detailsand will put some of them here and can somebody tells me more about it... I heard that Gibson experimented and made some uniques that time thx David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Hi David, this is a very interesting guitar. Here are a few questions. How deep (thick) is the body? Does it have a solid center block inside, like a 355, or might it be completely hollow? What is the serial number on the label? Where did you find the guitar, and did anyone tell you anything about its history? Are there any other markings or labels inside the body or under the top? (a dental mirror and a flashlight would be needed to check that) Please post as many photos as you can (if you can post all of them, that would be great). The guitar appears to be one of those strange Gibson experiments, but even then it appears to have been modified over the years. It has some similarities to the original early 1960's "Crest" model, which is quite rare. The Crest was conceived by a Gibson employee named Andy Nelson, and he also used a 355 at some of the clinics he did in those years. I love it, though. 30 years ago, I used to make a few drawings of unusual Gibsons with features combined from different models. This is very close to one of the designs I came up with. Looking forward to hearing more about it and seeing more photos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david123 Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 hi Jim, thx for your help I got it long time ago with some trades + money add, it costed me a lot but it was worth it as I know I wont find similar and ofcourse its 50 years old much more then I am:) Now to the questions: Yes it has a block inside, body is cca 5cm deep maybe a little more so its not like byrdland or other hollows... Serial is 62353 I don't have a dentist mirror but i tried to experiment with some mirrors and as far i cant see any othe markings or labels inside the body. I have made 50pics but cant upload here because of 500k max, if you give me your email, i can send it to you thx David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L8_4thesh0w Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 It appears that the bridge and tailpiece have been replaced and/or repositioned at some time. Very interesting guitar. There are likely some here who'll have some info. In the meantime, you might like checking this out. http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/2015-Memphis/1964-ES-345TDC-Figured.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david123 Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 hi, yes agree, do you maybe know what bridge and tailpiece was original, was it vibrola? It has 4 holes at strap holder thx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L8_4thesh0w Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 My expertise is virtually non-existent in this area, but that would suggest a vibrola or tremolo or a "trapeze" style tailpiece. I probably have less than 1% of the knowledge contained in the collective of this forum. Sometimes even Gibson must rely on the knowledge of collectors and historians to fill in the blanks in its own incomplete records. It's likely someone will know, or know where to find, your info. Often it's best to just be patient. You just never know how long it may take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 hi Jim, thx for your help I got it long time ago with some trades + money add, it costed me a lot but it was worth it as I know I wont find similar and ofcourse its 50 years old much more then I am:) Now to the questions: Yes it has a block inside, body is cca 5cm deep maybe a little more so its not like byrdland or other hollows... Serial is 62353 I don't have a dentist mirror but i tried to experiment with some mirrors and as far i cant see any othe markings or labels inside the body. I have made 50pics but cant upload here because of 500k max, if you give me your email, i can send it to you thx David Thanks David. I sent you a private message, with my e-mail address, so you can send photos. Regarding the body depth, I'm a bit confused. Your measurement of 5cm is very close to 2 inches (1.97), and you thought it might be a bit more. The standard depth of a 355 is only 1.75 inches; and for a Byrdland or 350T it is 2.25 inches. A Barney Kessel, of course, is much deeper at 3 inches. So I'm just wondering if your guitar is actually deeper than a standard ES355. I think that would make it much more unusual (especially since it has a center block). This, along with the cutaways (which appear to be original) are the most important things to figure out about your guitar, I think. The dual inputs on the front are also interesting, as they would normally have been located on the rim. We have seen some unusual custom and experimental (and even prototype) Gibsons posted here in the forums over the years, and I always find that interesting and exciting. This 355 really fascinates me. I found one of those drawings that I did back in the 1980's, and it was basically this guitar, except that I happened to draw it with a black finish. I owned an original '64 Barney Kessel in the early 80's, so I have always been a fan of the double-florentine cutaway look. :) Just for fun, here's another similar example of an unusual Gibson, which was featured on the "Encore" page of Guitar Player Magazine some years back. It's a double-florentine Byrdland (with a varitone), so some similarities to your guitar, David: I will look forward to seeing the rest of your photos, and I will keep looking for more info that might be out there about this guitar (I'm going to go through the book about Andy Nelson again, because I think this 355 could have been associated with him). Thanks again David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 As JimR56 says...Very exciting find! I am unable to add any info about this guitar, but am interested in seeing more pics and hearing the 'back story'. It looks 'authentic' but with some possible mods to the electronics and the bridge. Could be an Employee "one-off" or "experimental" as mentioned....??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david123 Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 Hi Jim and retrorod, yes it is really special guitar that's why I needed to trade and sell my stuff to get it:) and I like pointy cutaways much more then normal mickey mouse... Give me your email retrorod so I can send you more photos I see that it had a kluson tuners as there are two holes for each tuner, then I think it had a Bigsby tremolo as there is 4 holes at strap holder and bridge should be ABR-1 tune-o-matic and that's it What do you think guys, should I find and buy these from the same era and put it on or should I leave it like it is now? I need to know because if something happened, maybe I would need to sell it thx David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david123 Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 Hehe extremely modified flying V :)))) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Hi David, Thanks for sending the photos. I was able to open them fine, and I just looked through them. Somebody really played this guitar a lot! I'll bet it must sound great. On the other hand, if this is a rare custom or experimental instrument, it's a shame that it was abused so much. Kind of breaks my heart, in fact. But I suppose that a previous owner didn't see it as something to preserve, and from the looks of the case, it must have done a lot of traveling in its time and provided a lot of music to a lot of people. The neck break is unfortunate, but as long as it was a solid repair, I'm sure it can still be a great "player's guitar". I'm still curious whether you have any info about its history, or whether you can still ask the person you got it from. Despite its rough condition and the modifications, I still think it's kind of an important guitar in terms of being a custom design. Also, were you able to narrow down the body depth? The photos showing the inside of the cutaways are what intrigue me most about the batch you sent. The way the binding was done seems a bit unusual, but it also looks well aged and original. The wood on the back is really nice, and despite the crazing, that aged cherry color is wonderful. To me, the most important question is what this guitar looked like when it was made, and whether it might have any interesting history in terms of how it came to be built that way. If it were mine, I would probably try to contact Walter Carter or George Gruhn in Nashville, and see if they have any ideas or information on its origins. They also might have opinions about perhaps restoring it to the extent possible (a vintage ABR being one obvious possibility). If you find out any more about it, please post about it here. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david123 Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 Hi Jim, thx mate, yes it was used a lot, I got it like that I never went out with it, I will try to get more infos about its history and will try to contact the persons you told me... please tell me how can I measure the right because it is 4cm at cutaway and in the centre (where the block is) its more then 5cm Is it possible that the neck was black at the start as I saw some with black neck and only black color stayed at position you don't play ( you know what I mean? ) thx David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 David, you can contact Walter Carter at cartervintage.com, and George Gruhn at guitars.com You should measure the body depth out at the edge of the guitar (include the top and back binding as part of the total measurement). It's probably 1.75 inches (4.45 cm), which is the standard depth of a 355. If it's more than that, then you really have something pretty unusual for 1962. Not sure exactly what you mean about black on the neck. The entire neck would not normally be black. Sometimes Gibson used black on the back of headstocks, which could extend to a point below the head/neck joint (a "stinger"). The same thing sometimes was sometimes done at the heel. On your guitar, the heel area is a darker red, but not black. This is not unusual. The black color at your head/neck joint looks like it was applied by whoever repaired the neck break (frankly, it doesn't look like it was done very well cosmetically). I hope this helps. Please let us know if you learn anything from Messrs. Carter and/or Gruhn! Edit: I just checked your serial number, and I think it's actually a 1963, not '62. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 One thing I forgot to mention previously. The f-holes are larger than what you would find on an ES-355, and are bound unlike stock 355's of the period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david123 Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 Hi Jim, Yes sorry you are right its 1963, I checked at guitar dater...and yes F-holes are bigger then usual 355, as I can see from your pics Encore have the same I got reply from George and he didn't encountered another one like this...he told me that as I presumed the bridge, tuners and bigsby is changed so I will try to get all from same era and put it back in all original also frets were changed sometime but ok there is nothing can be changed I measure it at cutaway and there is 4,2cm and where body meets neck it is more then 6cm, I have sent you pics thx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 David, have you carefully pulled the pickups to discover what is underneath and determine if they are original to the guitar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david123 Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 Hi Retrorod, no I haven't yet, I will do that when I will got the rest to change and when I will do it I will take to a pro to change it and meantime he will check pickups, i think its original, two guys confirmed it when they saw it and sound is correct from them, I can probably check it today by myself but I am a little worry open it, I cant made any damage right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Hey David, Any updates ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david123 Posted March 2, 2015 Author Share Posted March 2, 2015 Hi Retrorod, yes I have opened it and picture I will send you please check thx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Thanks David, I was able to check them out with the help of Jim sending them in another format. The pickups appear to be original pat# p'ups. My lingering questions are about the two 3-way toggles and the extra input jack. Do all of these function? If so, what is their function? How about the vari-tone switch? Functioning? Thanks for sharing a cool mystery guitar. If only IT could talk.... Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvguit Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Great guitar, thanks for sharing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Thanks David, I was able to check them out with the help of Jim sending them in another format. The pickups appear to be original pat# p'ups. My lingering questions are about the two 3-way toggles and the extra input jack. Do all of these function? If so, what is their function? How about the vari-tone switch? Functioning? Thanks for sharing a cool mystery guitar. If only IT could talk.... Rod I had been meaning to ask these questions too, Rod. The upper bout toggle was a curious thing from the get-go. Coil split/tap? Standby switch? David has been great about answering all these questions and supplying info and photos. Hoping to hear what Walter Carter has to say about this soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Looks like a Barney kessel in some ways.. side rims cut thin.. Looks pretty cool though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david123 Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 Hi guys, sorry was away...about your questions Rod: - twoway switch at the cutaway is a standby switch and it is functioning - varitone is working also - the other 3 way switch for pickup selection is working also - the upper input is working but the other is not, don't know why but is it possible if it is a stereo input it cant work with mono cable? yes Slimt agree with you its old beauty:) thx David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Thanks for that info, David. Not sure about the stereo thing. I remember that 345/355's came with stereo-varitone, but not sure that it required two input jacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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