zombywoof Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Talking flattops here. Apparently I do. I own 6 of the buggers. That has to say something other than the obvious I am a notorious cheapskate as I have less than $600 tied up in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Nothing wrong with Ladder braced flattops.. they have a tone of there own which is Nice.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modoc_333 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Talking flattops here. Apparently I do. I own 6 of the buggers. That has to say something other than the obvious I am a notorious cheapskate as I have less than $600 tied up in them. which ones do you have? I might be curious in hunting some down myself! -Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted February 21, 2015 Author Share Posted February 21, 2015 I obviously do not think anything is wrong with them. But I wonder if the modern ear is just not a tuned more to the sound of X braced guitars. No doubt about it that it is a whole lot harder these days to find a quality ladder braced guitar than it once was. The Collings Waterloo is about the only one that quickly comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted February 21, 2015 Author Share Posted February 21, 2015 which ones do you have? I might be curious in hunting some down myself! -Keith Here is the list. All were built in the 1930s except the Sovereign which was birthed between 1958 and 1962. Oscar Schmidt-made Galiano Jumbo. Fairly rare 14 fret, solid headstock Schmidt. Very warm sounding guitar. Oscar Schmidt "Westbrook" Stella. These guitars epitomize the pre-War blues sound. Kay K-6. To my ear an amazing sounding little guitar. Spruce top, mahogany body and fully bound. Even has rounded fingerboard edges. This thing will just ring until kingdom come. Regal-made Model 964 Recording King. Nice sounding sound spruce and mahogany guitar but lacks the bite of the Kay. Weird but cool oval soundhole. This is the only one of this model I have ever seen. Supertone Model 210 Parlor - all birch with a hollow sound and slight metallic ring. Killer slide guitar though and cool looking as all get out. Harmony Sovereign 1260 - in my opinion, everybody should try one of these. I know of no other guitar that is as well built and sounds and plays as good as these for the money (always the qualifier). One of these days I have to get these guys together for a group photo. If anybody wants though I can post some pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAMELEYE Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Please do. Would love to check 'em out. As a new owner of a WL-14 LTR I'm finding the ladder braced tone something to get used to. And yes, very different (in a very good way) from X braced guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Please do. Would love to check 'em out. As a new owner of a WL-14 LTR I'm finding the ladder braced tone something to get used to. And yes, very different (in a very good way) from X braced guitars. Congratulations again on the WL14L, Cameleye. (For the locals, we have communicated about this elsewhere). An interesting thing about the new Waterloo WL14 is that they come in x braced and ladder braced varieties, and someone with a scientific bent and one of each ( I have seen a few mention they bought both, you better believe it), would be able to do a decent comparison between the bracing styles. I better hunt them up again and ask them..... One of the main attractions of them is that they are brand new and hopefully no dramas like an old Kalamazoo full of splits and a repair bill more than the purchase price. I will get a ladder braced version when I can, though they have sold like the proverbial hotcakes. For the touring blues fingerpicker, they can now get a new and 'fairly replaceable' guitar to haul around and chuck a pickup etc in without worrying about a vintage to baby - just a great idea at last from Collings and probably things were leading up to those models with Legends, Authentics and reissues everywhere recently. But that didn't stop me being stunned when a new ladder braced guitar was announced! They may need a few old socks in the sound hole to give them that authentic old odour....... Sorry to divert your thread Zombi, but I think it is relevant. I have 2 ladder braced Gibson LGs (1 & 0) and they are fun for choppy bluesy chording like "Red Hot" and that, but they just sing way above their station with a bottleneck slide in open tunings! The LG1 just screams with the rubbishy bridge and placky saddle replaced with an ebony bridge and bone saddle when the original split in 2...... BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted February 21, 2015 Author Share Posted February 21, 2015 At their worst a ladder braced guitars can sound nasal and boxy. At their best they will have good sustain and lean towards a brighter sound. I have played some that have what can best be described as a 12 string chime. Main downside is because a ladder braced guitar stiffens the top across the grain there is a tendency for the bridge to rotate. This is why you often see them with floating bridges and trapeze tailpieces or if with a fixed bridge, bridge plates that stretch the entire width of the guitar. There does seem to be a renewed interest in them though with the Collings Waterloo and guitars built by guys like Cambrio and Hauver. OK, you twisted my arm. Here are a couple of pics. Schmidt Galiano Jumbo Regal Recording King Kay K-6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 If I was a guitar, I'd be a square Southern Jumbo. And I'd say yes thanks and go to the party where the Regal Recording King, who I'd never seen before, would be. About 9:45 PM we would meet in a corridor or on the terrace for a dialogue. Then after 25 minutes we would split for good. But I'd always carry a bit of his burst and his s-hole and p-guard and tone with me. And that would make me the SJ I am. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAMELEYE Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Thanks, Z. Nice pix there. You and BK probably know Collings is replicating the Jumbo. Wonder if that'll be ladder braced as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 Thanks, Z. Nice pix there. You and BK probably know Collings is replicating the Jumbo. Wonder if that'll be ladder braced as well. I heard Collings was going to move into Schmidt territory next. Collings will have some steep competition here though given you have guitars like Fraulini already out there. What will probably make the difference will be if Collings keeps the price down to about what the Waterloo sells for as the current crop of Schmidt-inspired guitars carry a pretty hefty price tag. But then again when you have guys like Alvin Youngblood Hart singing their praises that is about as good an endorsement as you are gonna get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Thanks, Z. Nice pix there. You and BK probably know Collings is replicating the Jumbo. Wonder if that'll be ladder braced as well. The other Waterloo pics look good, but I don't understand how Collings can promise those when if you look up the Waterloo WL14L on the Elderly site, it says delivery expected 27 February NEXT year.... Anyone with a guitar building background better head to Austin, Texas and sign on expecting to do double shifts for the foreseeable future! BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Zomby…If you ever want to sell that Oscar Schmidt-made Galiano Jumbo. Fairly rare 14 fret, solid headstock Schmidt. …….. I'll give you exactly what you paid for it!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Regal Recording King 'Woof- That Regal-made Model 964 Recording King borders on the abstract. First twisted thought that came to mind: "I wonder what that would sound like x-braced?" Second thought was, since they could with this guitar, what would happen if the cross braces were to advance north of the.. [edit: "waist"].. of the guitar, into the upper bout (with mega tone bars in the lower bout)? Sorry, just curious... anyone? Good to see when a guitar is used outside of the style of music it's normally heard doing, but the ladder braced guitars do excel at the country blues. This link to the Little Brother Blues test recordings offers some fine samples of these guitars in their element- check out the "sampler medley mp3's". I'm sure you're familiar with these recordings, but they haven't been mentioned in a while. Em7: interesting p.o.v., writing in the guitar-person. Could be a new genre for your consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 'Woof- That Regal-made Model 964 Recording King borders on the abstract. First twisted thought that came to mind: "I wonder what that would sound like x-braced?" Second thought was, since they could with this guitar, what would happen if the cross braces were to advance north of the sound hole, into the upper bout (with mega tone bars in the lower bout)? Sorry, just curious... anyone? I love that fun house mirror soundhole on the guitar. Regal did use a hybrid X bracing in some of their guitars. Well worth picking up if you stumble across one. Starting around 1935 Regal put a double X bracing in their jumbos. My Regal 12 string has it. Here is the Carson Robinson version of mine in the 1939 Monkey Wards catalog. The jumbo version on the right can set you back some serious bucks these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Here is my Bruno and Sons ladder braced (1880's) size 0 in action. Bruno was a partner with CF Martin from 1833 to 1836…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 Zomby…If you ever want to sell that Oscar Schmidt-made Galiano Jumbo. Fairly rare 14 fret, solid headstock Schmidt. …….. I'll give you exactly what you paid for it!!! You are a true friend, always looking out for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 Here is my Bruno and Sons ladder braced (1880's) size 0 in action. Bruno was a partner with CF Martin from 1863 to 1866…. Great guitars. I believe the Bruno Martin partnership dissolved in 1839 when Martin moved from NYC to Nazareth. As far as I know Martin never made guitars for Bruno. C. A. Zoebisch was the exclusive distributor starting in 1865. The soundhole rosette on yours looks like the Model 12 in the 1899-1900 catalog which was an imported model. But the only mahogany body model offered in the catalog is the American No.1 which is shown with a very simple rosette and pyramid bridge with the flattened peaks. Hard to tell though as Bruno was in business a long time with guitars being made by a bunch of U.S. and European builders and not many catalogs exist. Anyway here ya go - a Model 1884. This one is simply labeled C. Bruno. Not playable at the moment (look at the bridge) and since I have not actually gotten around to paying for it (the owner is a close friend who apparently trusts me) it was not included in the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Edited the above post to have me wondering what the RK would sound like if cross-braced; with that soundhole located so far up into the upper bout, the 'x' could actually be located above the waist of the guitar. Blaming the brain-fade on exhaustion from shoveling heavy wet snow for 2+ hr.s, not due to any beverage(s) I may have rewarded myself with afterwards. Re: the '39 Wards catalog- a more legible view of that page I have yet to see. The RK might set you back $22.75, but it does come with a pick, and that side opening case is covered in Keratol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 Re: the '39 Wards catalog- a more legible view of that page I have yet to see. The RK might set you back $22.75, but it does come with a pick, and that side opening case is covered in Keratol. Did not get the case with the Regal but I did get the rear opening case with the Supertone as well as the original little booklet that came with the guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 You are a true friend, always looking out for me. Zomby…I wouldn't want you to lose any money on that guitar!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 Zomby…I wouldn't want you to lose any money on that guitar!!! And I feel the same way about that Washburn you own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 You're a good man Zomby!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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