kelly campbell Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 no offense taken it is just my opinion...my point on the gigs was that I doubt half of the people who gig and barter don't put up with people trying to barter them down much at all and my point of the job and houses for example is that it is an offer to employ you or an offer on a house or car generally in retail you don't see signs or ads that say 999.99 or best offer. and Rifster I take no offense as long as you don't by me saying the same to you,That you more than likely are not in finances either, the market sets prices in a capitalistic system by not buying when it is too high, not bartering, that will only lead to raising prices more to make the kind of profits the CEO/CFO have a responsibility to the share holders to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I think I have confused the issue a bit. When it comes to durable goods I don't pay retail. IF I go into Guitar Center and they have a used or discounted item at a good price I may not hagel (not barter) over the price. If they are asking full price I will ask to speak to a manager to broker a better deal as I used to be able to do at GC. If I feel the price is not very good and they will not negotiate I will walk out. Case in point. Last year my local Guitar Center had a Roland GR20 guitar synth, used for $200. I was very interested in it so I asked if I could test it. They had no power supply for it ($20). No GK pickup($150). No 13 pin cord($20). No way to even see if it would power up. With 10% sales tax I would be paying $220 for it and that's what they sell for on Ebay with all the accessories. I told the manager I would assume the risk for $150.I was prepared to pay a little more depending on his counter offer. He told me he couldn't lower the price at all. I walked. Last time I was there the unit was still sitting there gathering dust. I'm not going to over pay for an item just to help Guitar Center with its poor performance. I do this with most goods and services.. When it comes to my dinner I tend to negotiate with my feet. If I don't think the dining experience is worth well more than I paid for it I won't be back... But I always tip. Oh.. and I'm as cheap a bastard as you're likely to find. Sales guys that work for commission hate that but not nearly as much as I hate paying retail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 bar·ter ˈbärdər/ verb 1. exchange (goods or services) for other goods or services without using money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I understand that part, look at all the costs involved to make a guitar for instance, a lot more than the costs of a retailer. If you want to move the inventory and it's not moving as fast as you need to you may need to discount it. The sooner you get your money back plus a decent profit the better you are, hell sometimes recovering the cost is not the worse thing that can happen. I have never been able to get a discounted price on a fast selling item, I know better than to even ask. Again, my point is that when profits get squeezed by competition in your industry you have to be better at it than your competitors, GC does not have this reputation and they do not have the staff to be the best. Furthermore they throw around all of these sales events every other week not to mention the coupons and their "call if the coupon does not work", and open invitation to negotiate. Look at how many people complain about the final price of a new Gibson, that includes all variables into what goes in the price. You can ask all the money you want for an item but you are going to be a hell of a salesman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 bar·ter ˈbärdər/ verb 1. exchange (goods or services) for other goods or services without using money. Yea, I just thought he was using the term a little losely since you cannot really do this in a GC type store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Yea, I just thought he was using the term a little losely since you cannot really do this in a GC type store. I wish I could!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Rifster I take no offense as long as you don't by me saying the same to you,That you more than likely are not in finances either, the market sets prices in a capitalistic system by not buying when it is too high, not bartering, that will only lead to raising prices more to make the kind of profits the CEO/CFO have a responsibility to the share holders to make. Nope, I think you are mistaken, first by the way you are using the term bartering and second by the fact that negotiation exists and happens in a lot of industries. Actually Musician's Friend and Guitar Center openly asks you to call them to negotiate prices, I have done it, you can call me cheap but not stupid, if MF sends me a note saying "call us, we'll give you a discount" why wouldn't I go for it?. Supply and demand sets market prices in capitalism by the way. And if you are really talking about bartering then all of my responses have been wrong and you can disregard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I wish I could!! I know, right. It'd be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Gibson Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly campbell Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 If infact they do send you something inviting you to do so I would think you would have to I would take them up on it if they ask me to but when they do not I will not. essentially what you are talking about is like a coupon or preferred customer type deal and there is nothing wrong with that what I am saying is when it is not encouraged. Sorry to stir up all the crap.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly campbell Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I do understand supply and demand thats why I said if you don't buy at that price then eventually the price falls because of less demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drog Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I find it interesting that people are against negotiating. When you accept a new job, to you take the first salary offer they give you? No. Same goes for a large purchase or a contract. Well the next pay cheque you get, how about I decide that I am not going to give you quite as much. Hey, afterall a barter can work both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drog Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Looking at it business wise I'd rather make 15% now then wait for a maybe 30% later. Besides you can generate other sales by giving a customer a good deal. You generate more by being fair and giving everyone the same deal. I.e. Fair pricing. Nothing worse than hearing if you go to this guy, he will get you a better deal than the other guy. What kind of system is that? Guess if they just increase prices by 100%, then give you 25% off, you think you made a bargin. This is why people hate car dealerships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drog Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 One last thing from me. Pricing should be set, so a company can properly set margins to make a profit. They need to know how much they will make based on set costs, versus labour, building costs, etc. if you negotiated every single sale, your company would be a mess and in trouble. Take a look at Apple. They have fixed pricing for every store that sells Apple products. It works just fine, they are successful. Now take a look at the PC market and the instability of companies that come and go, as they worked to out bid each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skilsaw Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 ... Negotiating for price is an American tradition... It is an Arab tradition! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I find it interesting that people are against negotiating. I was sorta shocked by that myself. I mean I know some people are uncomfortable negotiating a deal but it never occurred to me that folks would be upset that I am negotiating better deals for myself :unsure: . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. C.O. Jones Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 It is an Arab tradition! Exactly, and I will try to buy my next guitar in Switzerland. My turkish bro lives there and it is scary to watch him negotiate. Sometimes I almost feel bad when I see the salesperson sweating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Take a look at Apple. They have fixed pricing for every store that sells Apple products. It works just fine, they are successful. Now take a look at the PC market and the instability of companies that come and go, as they worked to out bid each other. You don't really think that Apple's success is because of their prices structure do you? BTW... I negotiate the price of my new iPhone every two years. I gave $50 for my 5s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Well the next pay cheque you get, how about I decide that I am not going to give you quite as much. Hey, afterall a barter can work both ways. I renegotiate (not barter) my paycheck from my day job every year at June. I've done it as long as I can remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 One last thing from me. Pricing should be set, so a company can properly set margins to make a profit. They need to know how much they will make based on set costs, versus labour, building costs, etc. if you negotiated every single sale, your company would be a mess and in trouble. Take a look at Apple. They have fixed pricing for every store that sells Apple products. It works just fine, they are successful. Now take a look at the PC market and the instability of companies that come and go, as they worked to out bid each other. Ideally but then what do you do when the coming does not sell what it needs to to stay afloat? Apple can set prices because they have a solid desirable product that sells well. You are not going to get a deal on an item that sells very well at GC. The PC market is a mess because PCs are for the most part a poor product. Bottom line is GC is not in financial trouble due to clients that negotiate prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 You don't really think that Apple's success is because of their prices structure do you? And this does raise the question as to the real reasons why GC is having problems. IMO, other than the mismanagement by bean counters trying to fit GC into a modern/generic business model, musical instruments, esp. guitars, are not selling in the retail market like they did. (Look at Gibson. By increasing the price of their instruments and making changes to their products that are unpopular with consumers, they have inadvertently turned people to the the preowned market.) It could be the miserable state of our contemporary music culture, and that could be the exacerbated by the lack of funding for music and the arts in the public schools. Or it could also be that the only people who spend much money on guitars are middle aged and older white guys in a down economy. The reason that GC has accumulated so much debt might have to do with the way that guitar suppliers and GC have structured pay schedules and inventory levels. And it could be, too, that GC has saturated the market. Most all businesses that I know of have a mindset that they must expand (or diversify) to increase sales. Without careful market analysis, it is inevitable that a critical mass will be reached, some stores will operate at a loss, and a restructuring will eventually be necessary. Leave it up to the bean counters to find creative ways to make a company look stronger than it really is, or to misread the minds of their buyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Summerisle Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 In terms of negotiating prices, I find the Mom & Pop stores are far more willing to negotiate than Guitar Center. When it comes to discussing price I always ask for "best price for cash" - it's amazing what the knowledge that credit/debit card percentage deductions will not be factor in the transaction can do, in terms of encouraging the shop owner to come up with a good deal. When I tried to buy a Casino in a GC in North Carolina one day, all the salesman did was add the full retail price of the guitar to the full retail price of the case, lump on the 7% NC sales tax and write the total figure on a pad in front of me. Q. "Is there any room in that price if I pay cash?" A. "Nope, cash or card, either's cool, man. That's the price." "OK, Bye-Bye." Maybe Guitar Center negotiates better for big-ticket gear, but that raises the other issue: With cheaper stuff, why do you need so many retail outlets to sell the same gear that is also sold through a selection of on-line dealers, Guitar Center / Musicians Friend included? Why buy a dinged-up Casino played by hundreds of kids on various, bored Saturday afternoons, when you can get one fresh and un-played from an online dealer, likely get a better deal, and possibly avoid the sales tax? The sales tax saving alone will help pay for a set-up, and it's not as though GC includes free set-ups when you purchase in person from one of their bricks and mortar stores. I've gone from the "I don't like buying guitars online" school of thought to the "I much prefer buying online" model - especially when companies like Sweetwater give you comprehensive photos of the actual guitar you'll be getting off the UPS truck a few days later, if you pull the trigger. I'm going to buy a Rick 360 in midnight blue for my 40th birthday in 2 years time. Chances are it will come straight from Fuller's - shipped from Texas to me, here in Virginia. With expensive stuff, it seems extraneous to have so much inventory in physical locations up and down the country. High end guitars are specialty items. The Mom & Pop stores will always exist - useful additions to the local economy, specializing in repair work, often focusing sales on the brands that don't creep into Guitar Center. GC might have the benefit of contracts with Gibson/Epiphone and Fender, which the small shops do not - but right now, if you said to me, "Go buy a Tele and Les Paul," my first thought would be, "Sweetwater (or similar)," not, "Let's get out the car and drive to GC." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Just don't negotiate your lawyer's fee if you're in trouble and don't negotiate your doctor's fee if you're sick. If you're well, that's one thing, but if your white count is up and you have a big bump on your neck, it's probably not a good idea to haggle with the guy who you want to save your life. (neck bump smiley) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Just don't negotiate your lawyer's fee if you're in trouble and don't negotiate your doctor's fee if you're sick. If you're well, that's one thing, but if your white count is up and you have a big bump on your neck, it's probably not a good idea to haggle with the guy who you want to save your life. (neck bump smiley) I did it in the ICU when my platelet count was low and there was a hole in my guts. I told the additions manager I would be paying my co pay in full before I left the hospital if we could work a deal. Suddenly co pay went from $1600 to $700. I paid it with my FSA on the spot. Now that Obama care has jacked my deductible through the roof and destroyed my specialist coverage, I get to do this a lot more. Never pay retail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I did it in the ICU when my platelet count was low and there was a hole in my guts. I told the additions manager I would be paying my co pay in full before I left the hospital if we could work a deal. Suddenly co pay went from $1600 to $700. I paid it with my FSA on the spot. Now that Obama care has jacked my deductible through the roof and destroyed my specialist coverage, I get to do this a lot more. Never pay retail! Yeah. You're right. I'm not so savvy as you. But I have pretty good insurance and I'm reaching my yearly out of pocket like every couple of months. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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