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Questions to elantric about NAMM and DF


Alouf

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OK, so all the questions don't get scattered all across the topics and elantric will surely miss more than a few, let's do a thread that is dedicated to our questions to elantric about his trip and what he learned from the team.

 

Elantric, please answer the questions you can answer, and you don't have to answer the ones you were somehow asked to keep private or the ones you did not ask to the team. I don't think you signed an NDA though, did you?

 

My questions:

 

* When will the RobotII technology be available on other models from Gibson?

* Will there be a lower cost (non LE) of the DF, and so, when?

* What do GOR users get with the RobotII upgrade kit?

* How stable was the RIP package you tested? is it ready for production? when is it shipping?

* How was your perceived latency on the RIP box? (as opposed to say a RME/Echo dedicated interface)

* Which device did Gibson use to translate the hexaphonic signals and feed the host?

* Will they be doing something about that non smooth MCK??

* How excited was the CEO about the technology, and how did he seem committed to it's future?

* What are some of the coming accessories you can tell us about?

* When will you start working for Gibson? :-&

 

That's it....for now

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elantic it would be really nice if you started another thread about your gear setup as im very interested... itouch? how does that work? also would like to know your full plans for ur laptop setup as im having a hard time finding anythin other then people just pluging into the house pa

 

also one more question elantic... does the rip use a firewire 800 (the smaller firewire) cable? because the new macbook pros only have the 800 now...? perhaps they used a firewire to usb cable? or do they use a firewire cable that has the big plug (seen on the rip pictures) on one side and the small 800 on the other? Im assuming that it comes with a cable? also im guessing you should be able to use all these types as long as one end fits in the rip right?
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I can answer these :

 

* The RIP package was Extremely stable I saw at least 20 RIPs all working, they looked ready to ship.

 

* I was told RIP will begin shipping Jan 21.

 

 

*> How was your perceived latency on the RIP box?

Extremely low - the lowest latency I ever heard - make that never heard !

 

* >Which device did Gibson use to translate the hexaphonic signals and feed the host?

Have not been told, nor have I seen ICs used - its a proprietary serial data stream for hex string signal with bidirectional control packets , all flowing on the TRS "ring" connection - decoded by RIP.

This allows you to use a "y cord - insert your favorite stomp boxes on the MAg PU TRS "Tip" connection, use a straight cable for the piezo connection, feed both into another Y cord and feed the RIP connection. In my case I would insert a Barber TonePress compressor on the mag Tip connection then feed RIP into Guitar Rig.

 

Although I suspect the stompbox FX in Guitar Rig may win me over - so I wont miss my old pedals.

 

Experiencing the whole package finally working was a joy and I must have spent over an hour playing the Dark Fire /RIP/ Guitar Rig/ Ableton package with the Craig Anderton Presets - this is where the "value added" is!!

 

 

I'm considering using my old POD XT Live - simply as a MIDI floor controller for Guitar Rig.

 

 

*> Will they be doing something about that non smooth MCK??

All MCKs I touched at NAMM were smooth - if yours isnt - Contact Gibson ASAP - get an RMA

 

 

* How excited was the CEO about the technology, and how did he seem committed to it's future?

Extremely excited - they are going to make a major announcement at Summer NAMM with a completely new model -

 

* What are some of the coming accessories you can tell us about?

Bluetooth Audio streaming with HID profile for additional control using bluetooth devices. They are also working on devices for remote control of the Alt tunings.

 

Regarding the other questions - Powertune II technology Upgrade for Robot 1 will be Spring 2009 - Faster tuning - no confirmed info on if it will or will not have hex or chameleon.

 

I loved the Jeff Beck Les Paul ,

 

http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-Custom/Jeff-Beck-1954-Les-Paul-Oxblood.aspx

 

and the Slash Epiphone played nice.

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Thanks Elantric. I'm really excited about the possiblility of devices for remote control of the Alt tunings. ](*,)

 

Heres what I hoping to find out.

 

Using the Configuration Tool will it be possible to:-

 

create and send custom altered tunings to the DF

edit and send PEQ presets to the DF

edit and send Coil Configurations to the DF

assign the vacant clickstream slots to tuning and Chameleon presets and/or PEQ control

or if not enable more Banks (Orange/White/Yellow/Magenta/Cyan etc)

 

cheers

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My impression is Tronical created the Configuration Tool strictly as an in house R&D control panel to try out every available parameter - PEQ, Coils, Robot profile, stepper motor ramp speed. low power sleep mode profiles, tuning speed timing, etc.

 

It exists at Tronical R&D labs and looks more like an Excel spreadsheet full of hex numeric entry boxes and arcane names for each entry box . It is not user friendly , and was never meant to be released to the public.

 

Due to public demand - they are working on a GUI version for public consumption - to adjust the PEQ and Coil configurations - but it may be a while - no target ship date for this. Seems a case where marketing and R&D had a gap in communication.

 

 

This was not good news to me. as i know if i had the Configuration tool I could create Chameleon profiles for Gretsch Filtertron PU, Dan Electro Lipstick PU, Rickenbacker.

 

however after playing more with Guitar Rig 3 - i realize i could use GR3 EQ to accomplish similar results. As in everything - the value is knowing what knob to turn to make the sound you desire.

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Hi elantric,

 

Although the P-90H on my DF does not hum, many people are reporting various degree of hum problems including some unusable or disturbing ones. When you played several DFs at NAMM, did you notice any hum problem with the P-90H? Is Gibson aware of this issue?

 

Thanks.

 

Giraku

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What I heard:

 

* Dark Fire into live amp with Neck PU = hum

* Dark Fire into RIP Guitar Rig = no Hum - perhaps due to a Noise gate in GR3 and NAMM show floor noise masking low noise hum anomalies.

 

 

 

 

The P90H is a stacked coil humbucker - the observation of Hum on current Dark Fire's in the Neck PU position is a result of the early Tronical firmware Chameleon PU configurations which have disabled the lower hum cancelling coil bobbin in the P90H. The Neck PU Hum can be fixed with a firmware update - which will ship with the RIP package.

 

FWIW - I own many vintage single coil equipped guitars - the Dark Fire P90H has no worse hum than my real 1961 SG Special with P90s.

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While it would be cool to have a Configuration Tool that manipulates parameters at such a low level to the firmware, it is my opinion that we should NOT EVER expect to ever see one.

 

In my experience in creating/using such tools for product development: a) the tool changes very rapidly to accomodate new developments; =D> it is rife with bugs and workarounds (never robust in a user sense because it develops at a faster rate than the product develops); c) has the ability to place combinations into firmware that are nonsensical and/or destructive to the product; and d) often contains "open" knowledge of proprietary algorythms.

 

At best, the third-party software might be able to allow an advanced user to manipulate a very small sub-set of parameters.

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elantric,

 

Just to understand. The hexaphonic output from the guitar still needs to be processed by a pitch tracking device in order to be converted to MIDI. Did Gibson show this functionality at NAMM and which box did they use?

 

* Dark Fire into RIP Guitar Rig = no Hum - perhaps due to a Noise gate in GR3 and NAMM show floor noise masking low noise hum anomalies.

 

Your guess is most probably right. And btw' date=' it is not a noise gate, it is a noise reduction plugin, based most likely (due to processing usage and noise profiling) on wavelet shrinkage.

 

And the other question:

 

[b']When will you start working at Gibson? :P[/b]

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Just to understand. The hexaphonic output from the guitar still needs to be processed by a pitch tracking device in order to be converted to MIDI. Did Gibson show this functionality at NAMM and which box did they use?

 

 

 

At NAMM I saw ZERO Dark Fire Guitar to MIDI functionality demonstrations. Did not see a "RIP to GK13 Pin" cable.

 

I may fullfill market demand and create a true RIP to GK13 conversion box.

 

If there is interest?

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Due to public demand - they are working on a GUI version for public consumption - to adjust the PEQ and Coil configurations - but it may be a while - no target ship date for this. Seems a case where marketing and R&D had a gap in communication.

 

 

Do you think there's any possibillity of more onboard tone/tuning presets in the future?

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Due to public demand - they are working on a GUI version for public consumption - to adjust the PEQ and Coil configurations - but it may be a while - no target ship date for this. Seems a case where marketing and R&D had a gap in communication.

 

 

This was not good news to me. as i know if i had the Configuration tool I could create Chameleon profiles for Gretsch Filtertron PU' date=' Dan Electro Lipstick PU, Rickenbacker. [/quote']

 

Based on your interaction with them did it seem at all likely that they may open the doors for external folks to write some of the code? In other words, if their code exists today and it works well taking values from a spreadsheet for arcane data field names etc it would be a simple thing for a bunch of us to get together and put a simple GUI on top of that. All they need to do is let us have the spreadsheet, their executable, the possible list values for all possible datafield names etc. Then you wrap all with a simple script and thats it.

 

I'm sure you would have explored this type of path so how did they respond?

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Based on your interaction with them did it seem at all likely that they may open the doors for external folks to write some of the code? In other words, if their code exists today and it works well taking values from a spreadsheet for arcane data field names etc it would be a simple thing for a bunch of us to get together and put a simple GUI on top of that. All they need to do is let us have the spreadsheet, their executable, the possible list values for all possible datafield names etc. Then you wrap all with a simple script and thats it.

 

 

I would say send a PM to "Tronical" here at the Forum with the above request.

- and email Chris Adams

 

chris.adams@tronical.com

 

He will read your request.

 

I doubt he will share Dark Fire source code - but if you could assist making a GUI for the Configuration tool, that may be OK. Only Tronical can answer this.

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Could be - Chris Adams has many innovative ideas on how to expand the existing Dark Fire user experience with firmware updates which will add new functions.

 

I know they are working on a chromatic tuner mode.

 

You know what...I am really sad to see that the DF owners are getting all of the love and the GOR owners are getting none O:)

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Based on your interaction with them did it seem at all likely that they may open the doors for external folks to write some of the code? In other words' date=' if their code exists today and it works well taking values from a spreadsheet for arcane data field names etc it would be a simple thing for a bunch of us to get together and put a simple GUI on top of that. All they need to do is let us have the spreadsheet, their executable, the possible list values for all possible datafield names etc. Then you wrap all with a simple script and thats it.

 

I'm sure you would have explored this type of path so how did they respond?[/quote']

 

I could volunteer for the writing of such program given the proper data set. I would also make a nice ans shiny GUI for configuration needs.

 

Although I will not have a DF to test it on since I am not a DF owner O:)

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Experiencing the whole package finally working was a joy and I must have spent over an hour playing the Dark Fire /RIP/ Guitar Rig/ Ableton package with the Craig Anderton Presets - this is where the "value added" is!!

 

 

 

Did you get a chance to solo any strings in Ableton?

Hows the spill?

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Did you get a chance to solo any strings in Ableton?

Hows the spill?

 

I tried but user error prevented this

 

However I did see 8 independent simultaneous Audio signals on the VU meters in the RIP Mixer app.

 

RIP Audio Input Channels 1-8 = Mag PU, Mono Piezo , Low E, A, D, G, B, High E

 

 

FWIW - Pics of my Dark Fire with Development Team Signatures are here:

 

http://forums.gibson.com/Default.aspx?g=posts&t=12356

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I would say send a PM to "Tronical" here at the Forum with the above request.

- and email Chris Adams

 

chris.adams@tronical.com

 

He will read your request.

 

I doubt he will share Dark Fire source code - but if you could assist making a GUI for the Configuration tool' date=' that may be OK. Only Tronical can answer this.

 

 

 

[/quote']

 

Will do. Good ideas and I agree you can't speak for them. I was just wondering if you explored the idea in person and if it was a brick wall. If that was the case it would make no sense to try writing emails etc. In person is always a more powerful communication media.

 

 

I could volunteer for the writing of such program given the proper data set. I would also make a nice ans shiny GUI for configuration needs.

 

Although I will not have a DF to test it on since I am not a DF owner =D>

 

That's the spirit!!! Thanks for volunteering. I can do all the testing needed!

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