RudyH Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 I've been wondering what a tube amp might do for me (truthfully I want another toy). It was interesting to learn that double blind studies by electronics engineers found that people in a double blind study could not tell the difference between a tube amp and a solid state amp when played clean. Likewise there was little perceptible difference when played with heavy distortion. The tube amps were identifiable by most people when the test was with a little distortion, especially when played with blues phrasing. Fascinating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSG_Standard Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 I've been wondering what a tube amp might do for me (truthfully I want another toy). It was interesting to learn that double blind studies by electronics engineers found that people in a double blind study could not tell the difference between a tube amp and a solid state amp when played clean. Likewise there was little perceptible difference when played with heavy distortion. The tube amps were identifiable by most people when the test was with a little distortion' date=' especially when played with blues phrasing. Fascinating. [/quote'] My Dad, who's an electrical engineer and has been working with tube driven electrical devices since 1947, says the same thing...So I stopped listening to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichCI Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 IMO, listening to the sound is one thing, but playing a guitar through a tube amp that makes all the difference in the world. There's a feel to a tube amp that's turned up enough to just be compressing a bit or when it's distorting that makes them worth it. I'm also curious to know who the listeners were in the studies. The average music listener won't know one from the other but, if you take a sample of guitar players or people who are pretty into music, I think the results would be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepblue Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Interesting. I can tell the difference but not at low volume. Once you start cranking her THEN I can tell. It takes on another dimension. The sound has more depth and a warmer feel. It is more then hype...there is a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backline Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 I'm not presently using any tube amps, but for some things I find them preferable. There are some rooms locally and for certain genres where if I use a transistor amp I find myself tweaking the thing all night. Most tube amps I've used over the years are pretty much set and forget. They seem to sound good unless you really don't understand how to get your sound and insist on setting them up wrong (not that I have any experience). Transistor amps are usually so wide ranged, there are some bad sounds lurking in there for the unwary. Tube amps have less range, but sound good in their own basic way. Their passive stacks don't have a lot of adjustability to get you into trouble. Tube amps have a much broader compression "knee," that I find allows me to make most adjustments right at the guitar. My favorites have been small tweed Fender designs by Victoria, though I have also used lots of Ampegs, Riveras, Dr Z, and of course Fenders. Currently I find Tech 21 Trademark 60's to be a good compromise for weight and sound issues, but I still find myself tweaking them more than a tube amp. They do almost breathe a little like a tube amp though if you can find the right level. Tube amps are easier to find a nice sound on for me, but heavier to schlep and expensiver to keep up. I'm a late convert to SS amps though. Some of the early ones sounded just dreadful. They've come a long ways. Most good designs can now rival the sounds of a tube amp, if not exactly the same response in terms of compression sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swmcv2007 Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 You know I actually didn't know what a tube amp was until last year. I only owned a little baby Fender practice amp until then. When I got my SG the guy at my local shop was like "all you need now is tube power" I thought he was gonna rape me or something. After a year and nonstop use of my tube amp, I get it. I like to play my rhythm licks very clean with just a little bit of bite and nothing gives that like a tube amp. Solid state amps work fine for practicing by yourself, but the minute you get in a band situation you realize how flat your sound is. I'm sure if they asked musicians and tested the amps a in live setting the listeners would know right away. A tube amp adds warmth and weight into the mix as opposed to cheap confetti quality sound from a solid state. When people ask why tube amps are better sounding I give them this analogy: Tube amps are to Solid State amps as LPs are to Cds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergod Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 ...hard to tell... but, I think the fatal mistake people makes when debating tube-solid-digital amps is they always compare/debate clean and heavy distortion. "This solid state/digital amp nails that clean tone exactly, at a fraction of the price, and with no manteniance". "This high gain ss/digital beast sounds as mean as that heavy, expensive, and huge marshall". Ok, they might do it, they might nail the sound, tone and mojo of an all tube amp. Ive seen some do it, and in fact the above statement is true: most people, even profesional musicians, couldnt tell which one was a ss or digital or tube amp. But what people in general is missing in these discussions is all the tube tones/sounds in between: the above clean and below metal distortion sounds/tones; those, you cannot nail with a solid state amp or with a digital emulator. You just cant do a GREAT tube crunch, mild distortion or in-the-verge-of-breaking-up tube tones with them. If you did tests with sounds in the middle (not heavenly clean, not high gain heaviest distortion you can think of) the difference would be noticeable and if you tried to change the dist amount with your guitars vol knobs, then the difference would become a little more noticeable. Difference meaning just that: different sounds. Not meaning one is bad and the other isnt. I think a better way of experimenting would be to tell people to just listen and then decide which one they like better, not because it is a tube amp or a digital amp or a solid state amp (I generally dont place them in the same category), but because it sounds better to them and fits their needs better. It would be easier for people to stop whining and start listening before chosing, lots of players I know say only tube amps are good, and they couldnt be more wrong. Tubes have a caracteristic sound to them, solid state amps too. The problem comes when a solid state amp is advertised as having "that tube tone" which it will never have. It's like trying to make a tube amp sound like a solid state amp, you can get close but you are better off buying a solid state amp. I know lots of players that use solid state amps only and they make them sing heavenly. On a side note... have you noticed how the light from an incandescent light bulb is different from that of an energy saving light bulb? But both do the job great. This is just my opinion. Not a rule, not meant to offend anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichCI Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 A tube amp adds warmth and weight into the mix EXCELLENT adjective! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Hard to disagree with Thurdergod, but I will! Only a little (trust me). I can't count how many amps I've tried in my days, and I'm not just talking for five minutes here and there. Also, I've taken apart many amps so I know a little something about them (I can tell you about the math down to the differential equations level too if you want that detail; KSG_Standard's dad and I can talk the same language). I fully agree with Thundergod's argument of everything in between. But there are some great modeling amps that already do this. Mind you, I once hated the whole notion of modeling amps. But when I tried the Vetta II, it definitely changed my mind. For any given sound you pull up, it can sound different at different volumes. In fact I can make it sound a lot different if I wanted to do so. For example, I've got one classic dirty SRV sound that cleans up nicely when you roll back the volume knob on the guitar. Also it responds differently to different guitars, just like a good tube one does. I don't want to get into a big argument about what's best, because I truly believe in "to each their own," but I think that technology is evolving to the point where the gap between tube amps and modeling them is getting smaller by the day. For me, having a near infinite amount of possibilities, including nearly every effect known to the world, in one amp is appealing (not to mention that it's a two channel amp and each can be driven separately to create a combined clean/dirty sound). Now if I was a professional musician with an infinite budget I would go with the traditional tubes, but I'm not so I'll stick with the Vetta II because it suites me just fine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saturn Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Also consider that, in most cases a good sounding SS amp is artificially re-creating the sound of a tube amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRom Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Are these the same people that listen to pop music and think it's good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudyH Posted January 19, 2009 Author Share Posted January 19, 2009 No, I think they were Laurence Welk fans that needed to dig some heavily distorted bubble music. Just kidding. I have now idea what the test population was like, and don't even know whether this is true information. I'd like to see some actual studies on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Are these the same people that listen to pop music and think it's good? No' date=' I think they were Laurence Welk fans that needed to dig some heavily distorted bubble music. Just kidding. I have now idea what the test population was like' date=' and don't even know whether this is true information. I'd like to see some actual studies on it. [/quote''] Why not have both? Check out ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepblue Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 My Orange amp is 100% all tube, but I also have a 50w Marshall Valvestate 2000 AVT. For those unfamiliar with this model it has one 12AX7 tube in the pre-amp. The rest is all solid state. The Marshall sounds great. I would have no qualms about giging with her, in fact I have. It a great rock n roll amplifier and has never let me down. Its also nice not to have to replace four 6V6 power tubes, four 12AX7's and two 12AT7's......As you all tube guys know...thats alot of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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