AlanC Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 I recently purchased an ES-137 Custom and it has a varitone switch on it. I've never used a varitone switch before and can't work out why the tone switches (if they are tone switches) affect the volume. However I also have other queries!! Can someone please explain how the 5 tone switch works? I've sort of formed the view that mine my not be wired properly but that's because I find the way it functions to be somewhat strange. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSG_Standard Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 I haven't used one, but I think they are the same on all Gibson's, maybe this will help you...http://www.blueshawk.info/varitone.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanC Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 I'm still not sure why the volume drops when the tone controls are turned down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modoc_333 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 how loud are you playing? taking out some frequencies will make it sound quieter especially at lower volumes. i'm pretty sure you're varitone works corretly though. they do sound funny. most players can only stand 1 or 2 settings on it anyway. the others can be used for some interesting things, but most can't stand a varitone at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spitball Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 As modoc mentioned, the Varitone cuts out selected ranges of the output, so you do lose volume. Some players insist that you actually lose volume and tonal qualities with the Varitone set to "1"...I have heard sound files that bear out that claim on the LP forum. That said, I happen to really like the Varitone. Some of those thinner tones have this vintage vibe that I find very appealing. I wouldn't put one in my ES-335, but I'd love to get an ES-345 to keep her company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Nahum Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Hi Alan, What the link didn't mention was the role of the inductor, which bleeds bass in the same way that a capacitor bleeds treble. The inductor working with the various RC combinations in the chip is what gives you the notch effect. I believe that the idea of the Varitone was to give the player single coil tones without the hum. I sometimes use the Varitone on my ES345 but it is a bit like my relationship with effects pedals viz. there is not a lot of time left to explore effects when you are trying to get melodies under your fingers and you have a day job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanC Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 I am playing at lower volumes so the sound drop out is very significant. Thanks guys I have found your comments very useful. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brundaddy Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 As modoc mentioned' date=' the Varitone cuts out selected ranges of the output, so you do lose volume. Some players insist that you actually lose volume and tonal qualities with the Varitone set to "1"...I have heard sound files that bear out that claim on the LP forum. That said, I happen to really like the Varitone. Some of those thinner tones have this vintage vibe that I find very appealing.[/quote'] On my 137 Custom, #1 on the VariTone is like a high gain boost with a little fuzz. Tone is a seesaw, a give-and-take...on mine I don't "lose tonal qualities" I simply get a very different tone on each setting, each with its assets. To my ear, I agree that the VariTone gives you quasi-vintage'esque single coil flavors. On mine #1 is definitely an obvious gain boost that cuts through the mix. Seems to me that #2-#6 on mine is a comparable volume to my other Gibsons, but #1 is louder & hotter than my other Gibsons. Maybe I have a different VariTone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spitball Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 The Varitone may have changed over the years, I don't know. I have heard enough varitone guitars (e.g., Bill Nelson's ES-345, Alex Lifeson's ES-355) that sound amazing, so I wonder if the Varitone is really getting in the way of anything. Then again, I have heard some examples of guitars played with the Varitone, and then after the varitone was removed, and in those cases (clips posted by Les Paul Forum member j45), it was like a blanket being removed from around the guitar. I don't know...I still love what it does overall. If the guitar sounds great with a Varitone, I'd surely keep it and use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qblue Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 I have a L6-S w/ a Varitone switch. This is how it operates on my guitar. It has 6 positions. Bill Lawrence Super Humbuckers. • Position #1: Both pickups in series and in phase. • Position #2: Front pickup only. • Position #3: Both pickups in parallel and in phase. • Position #4: Both pickups in parallel and out of phase. • Position #5: Rear pickup only. • Position #6: Both pickups in series and out of phase. I hope this helps. It may explain the volume changes as shifting phase may cause noticeable volume reductions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaicho8888 Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 qblue, Thanks for explaining the selector sw on your L6... I always wondered about it. Unlike yours, the ES-345 is a frequency filter (selector switches 2-6) that works on each pickup or both pickups. Selector 1 by passes the filter. It's just a convenience for fast tone selection and generally positions 1,2, or sometimes 3 is as far as I go. the others are too thin sounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qblue Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 I wish Gibson would explain the function on different guitars. I tried searching for 'varitone' in the Gibson search engine and got nothing. So I searched for a L6-S article I read a few years ago, which explained the function of the switch on this guitar. Maybe a search for the specific guitar may turn something up. I like the 1-5 positions for the sounds. The out of phase series is too thin sounding for me. I understand the A. Lifeson ES-355 has a cutoff switch for the Varitone, and then can be used with the 3-way pickup selector. That is the best of both worlds. I see the bridge on my L6-S is identical to the ES-355, FWIW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brundaddy Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 See, yours is different because the 137 Custom has the vari-tone AND 3-way toggle pickup selector switch. Of course, you know that anyway, I'm just saying. I'm with you tho, a vari-tone kill switch could be interesting.... & it would be nice if Gibson brought us more into the fold concerning the function of the Vari-Tone circuit, you're right as rain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobv Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 The more common "varitone" that is found on the Lucille and other fancier-wired guitars is a notch filter, not the six-way series parallel thing. You know how a tone control works by shunting off trebles. The Varitone combines different capacitors, which dump different bands of highs, with an inductor coil that dumps lows, leaving a "notch" in the middle frequencies that are left to come through. Position one is basically bypassed except that there's still some drain on the circuit (some have reported great gains in tone by removing the thing entirely, and BB King told Dan Erlewine that he uses it in the bypassed position #1). The rest of the selections dump off a preset amount of highs and lows leaving a narrow band of mids. The inductor coils, especially in pairs in stereo models, take up a lot of room and it's reputed to be the reason why they switched to a large notch in the bridge pickup rout of the center block in the ES335 in about 1961, so they could fit all that junk in through the bridge pickup rout instead of the f-hole. I'm entrigued by it since a friend had a Gibson with a varitone that I played in college, but lately there are no true varitone reproductions available (they all seem to skimp on the inductor component). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerial Man Posted April 27, 2010 Share Posted April 27, 2010 The Volume dips because Varitone switches work with capacitors that block tone from your guitar. They notch out frequencies, but stand between your pickups and your tone knobs. The problem with varitone is that the capacitors are always there, whether or not you have varitone turned on, Sucking away at the guitars natural tone. Not good in my book, but who's to say it's not an improvement. That is down to personal preference. But it's funny how the 355's are always worth more than the 345's that also have varitone. In my opinion the 137 classic is the axe to have, as with pedals and such there is no need for a varitone switch on a guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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