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I realize I'm opening up a can of worms here, and I accept that [flapper]

I'm going to buy an epiphone sometime soon and I'm torn between the G-400 Pro and the Les Paul PlusTop Pro.

G400PRO_CH_Splash.jpg

POP_LPSTDPLUSPRO-TL.jpg

(sorry for the enormous picture, i couldn't figure out how to shrink it)

I love the colors of the Les Paul (especially the trans-blue), but the SG was a little easier to play. However, for some reason I had a hard time getting the right sounds while palm muting with the SG.

I know guitar playing is very personal, and each guitar feels different for each player. My question is: Do the incredible looks of the Les Paul overshadow the SG's light weight and easy playability?

Also, is there any place I could get an SG with a Les Paul paint job? :)

Please keep the discussion civil [biggrin]

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I have found that ease of play makes a guitar more attractive over the long run than aesthetic beauty points (such as color of finish, etc).

 

In other words, if picking it up and playing it is pleasurable, you will much more likely play that guitar more, write more songs on it, lug it on stage, and pack it and bring it with you.

 

I am a Les Paul fan from way back, but it sounds like the SG is for you.

(And you will figure out your palm-muting situation in no time, I predict.)

 

I have played my brother's Epiphone SG.

It is light, plays like butter, and I really enjoy picking it up.

I guess the light weight is a big plus, since I am not used to it, and it really makes it a joy to wear hanging from my shoulder.

 

PS May I assume that both of these models cost about the same?

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I realize I'm opening up a can of worms here, and I accept that [flapper]

I'm going to buy an epiphone sometime soon and I'm torn between the G-400 Pro and the Les Paul PlusTop Pro.

G400PRO_CH_Splash.jpg

POP_LPSTDPLUSPRO-TL.jpg

(sorry for the enormous picture, i couldn't figure out how to shrink it)

I love the colors of the Les Paul (especially the trans-blue), but the SG was a little easier to play. However, for some reason I had a hard time getting the right sounds while palm muting with the SG.

I know guitar playing is very personal, and each guitar feels different for each player. My question is: Do the incredible looks of the Les Paul overshadow the SG's light weight and easy playability?

Also, is there any place I could get an SG with a Les Paul paint job? :)

Please keep the discussion civil [biggrin]

Pick the one that you're most comfortable with and the ease of playing is most obvious to you. You'll deal with the palm muting as the guitar becomes very hands on as you put the hours on it.

Bottom line, it's about comfort and playability, not how it looks. [biggrin]

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Thanks for the help guys!

I know I gotta choose one based on what feels right...but the Les Paul just looks so cool! Even if the SG feels nicer. Guess I'll have to visit my local Guitar Center sometime and figure this out.

Don't be taken in by a pretty face. Choose the one that feels and sounds the best for you.

...then buy the Les Paul Tribute Plus while they are still at 15% off! [flapper]

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Even cheap. crappy Chinese copies look great these days. Eye ball the fret board. Make sure it has no planing bumps or steps in it. The fretboard is the key. Look at fret width. You don't want wide frets. Look at the thin width frets on a Les Paul or Stat if you want to know see what fret width is desirabl.

Those PUs and tuning keys aren't top quality but you can replace them later as you get the money.

Once you get the guitar you can do a setup yourself. Just go to Youtube for step by step instructions. You can easily adjust the neck truss rod and tune the allen screws on the bridge.

Also take into account whether you get a carry case or gig bag. Act like the carry case is a deal breaker. Look at the whole picture.

Check warranties. Can you buy extended warranties etc.

I have seen Epis that guys updated a few features and ended up with guitars they played many years.

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Those PUs and tuning keys aren't top quality but you can replace them later as you get the money.

The Les Paul has Grover tuners. The SG has Wilkinson tuners which are made by Jinho. I've used Jinho tuners and they are as good as any Klusons I've ever had on a guitar. There was a rumour a few years back that Jinho actually make the tuners for Grover. I've got some Wilkinson (Jinho/Grover type) tuners on a non Epi LP type guitar and some genuine Grovers on an acoustic. If there's a difference, I haven't found it yet. Point I'm making is, it's unfair on Epiphone to say their hardware isn't "top quality".

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The Les Paul has Grover tuners. The SG has Wilkinson tuners which are made by Jinho. I've used Jinho tuners and they are as good as any Klusons I've ever had on a guitar. There was a rumour a few years back that Jinho actually make the tuners for Grover. I've got some Wilkinson (Jinho/Grover type) tuners on a non Epi LP type guitar and some genuine Grovers on an acoustic. If there's a difference, I haven't found it yet. Point I'm making is, it's unfair on Epiphone to say their hardware isn't "top quality".

 

The specs on the SG say nickel tuning keys which is good. 14:1 ratio for tuning keys is good too. Ive had cheap keys where the gears crapped out or had flat sticking points.

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I have both Epiphone and Gibson Les Pauls and an Epi SG.

 

It is the Epi SG that I always pick up. It is a dream to play. No guitar out there - not even my Yamaha SG2000 with its double cut or my Steinberger copy - is as playable as an SG.

 

Les Pauls are fantastic machines but if you want ease of fret access then get an SG. The only thing I don't like about them is the neck dive but this can be cured (I've yet to do it) by inserting some flattened lead fishing weights into the bottom of the control cavity. It will increase the weight by just a few ounces but will cure the neck dive problem.

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Thanks guys! You've helped me out a bunch. I'm thinking about going to my local Guitar Center to jam with each, and I'll let you guys know what I think. I'm not making a decision yet, but when I finally do I'll post pics.

 

I have both Epiphone and Gibson Les Pauls and an Epi SG.

 

It is the Epi SG that I always pick up. It is a dream to play. No guitar out there - not even my Yamaha SG2000 with its double cut or my Steinberger copy - is as playable as an SG.

 

Les Pauls are fantastic machines but if you want ease of fret access then get an SG. The only thing I don't like about them is the neck dive but this can be cured (I've yet to do it) by inserting some flattened lead fishing weights into the bottom of the control cavity. It will increase the weight by just a few ounces but will cure the neck dive problem.

Please excuse my n00bishness. What's neck dive?

 

What's the difference between the two, sound-wise, both are solid bodies, right?

I didn't really listen for the sound difference. I'll keep an ear out next time I jam. Yeah, they're both solid-body.

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Thanks guys! You've helped me out a bunch. I'm thinking about going to my local Guitar Center to jam with each, and I'll let you guys know what I think. I'm not making a decision yet, but when I finally do I'll post pics.

 

 

Please excuse my n00bishness. What's neck dive?

 

 

 

 

If the neck is too heavy, the guitar tends to 'dip' in that direction. It feels better to have most of the weight in the body area.

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If the neck is too heavy, the guitar tends to 'dip' in that direction. It feels better to have most of the weight in the body area.

Sorry to have to correct ya, but it has nothing to do with the neck being heavy.

Think about it. If the neck is made of the same materials as the LP, then how can the neck be heavier?

Yes, the the heavier body of the LP helps with this, but so does the placement of the strap button.

It's all about the placement of the strap button.

My 1997 Epi SG JR. has a very light body, but has the stap button on the back of the neck of the guitar. It has no neck dive at all.

So many folks say this all the time and I just thought I would try to make some headway in stopping this erroneous verbiage.

 

BTW, my Gibson SGJ also has no neck dive to speak of. So it depends on the SG you have also. :)

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Brad is right about the neck dive. It is all about the balance of the guitar. However, by weighting the body even more (in the "right" place as I suggest) the neck dive can be stopped completely. There are other ways to attack the problem and you should choose which best suits you.

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I know what it says on the pictures you posted but frankly I'd be surprised it they used coil tapping on SG pups - coil splitting maybe (not that I'd reckon you'd use that much either). [confused]

 

I'd have the Wilshire phant-o-matic of the Epi solids I think - worth a look. (Firebirds too if they are still making them).

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I know what it says on the pictures you posted but frankly I'd be surprised it they used coil tapping on SG pups - coil splitting maybe (not that I'd reckon you'd use that much either). [confused]

 

Perhaps the marketing people are not being precise, but more importantly is it a feature that the OP cares about? I have a dual-humbucking PRS guitar with the coil split option and I never use it because I don't feel that it adds anything. It's possible that coil splitting/tapping can be implemented effectively to produce useful tones, but I haven't heard it yet on the "off the shelf" guitars I've played. That said it doesn't hurt to have it, but I wouldn't factor it in to a buying decision.

 

Edit: Here's a discussion of splitting Vs tapping:

 

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Les Pauls are fantastic machines but if you want ease of fret access then get an SG. The only thing I don't like about them is the neck dive but this can be cured...

 

Yes, the design of the SG makes it easy to play all the way up to the 22nd fret. It's not nearly so easy to play past the 16th fret on an LP. Of course some people, for instance Joe Bonamassa, play exceptionally well at the top of the LP fretboard so we know it can be done [cool] . You just have to decide whether or not it's worth the extra work for the look and the tone.

 

As for the neck dive here's a discussion about moving the strap button to the end of the top horn.

 

http://www.seymourduncan.com/forum/showthread.php?219449-Moving-the-strap-button-on-an-SG

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My question is: Do the incredible looks of the Les Paul overshadow the SG's light weight and easy playability?

 

Well it all about opinion isnt it?

 

You like the looks of the LP.

 

I prefer the looks of an SG, but would still get an LP because I prefer the sound.

 

Zendar has warned about wide necks. I prefer wide necks, finding them much easier to play. I would suggest trying wider necks out for that very reason.

 

As for the pedantry concerning neck dive. Strap buttons aside, I can testify to this: I have had 2 guitars where the combination of neck and headstock outweighed the guitar body and this resulted in a centre of balance favour of the neck. One is a Camps M6 and the other a Framus Archtop. The point is the balance is not where you would want it.

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I know what it says on the pictures you posted but frankly I'd be surprised it they used coil tapping on SG pups - coil splitting maybe (not that I'd reckon you'd use that much either). [confused]

 

I'd have the Wilshire phant-o-matic of the Epi solids I think - worth a look. (Firebirds too if they are still making them).

 

They both have coil splitting, but when I tried it out I couldn't tell the difference between split and not-split sounds.

I may have been doing it wrong. I'm used to squier and ibanez guitars, which don't have as many knobs. ;)

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