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RobertAndersson

Are we all antiques?

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While watching the Seth Meyers show and the musical guest playing "live" by using pre-recorded tracks, Joe Bonamassa wrote this on Twitter:

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So, are we who love guitars and old school music like the Dinosaurs?

//Robert

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I'm afraid things are headed that way… Young people are losing interest in live music, it's not as important anymore as it was when I was a teenager. Computers, video and technology in general have taken over. Maybe it will make us more appreciated though.

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I know there are lot's of young people out there playing in bands. Lot's of their heroes are the same ones that a 50+ years old guy could have. Everything vintage is hip right now. Vinyl is back. And look at bands like Blues Pills or Rival Sons, thats some pretty nice REAL music there. Most young people listen to crap, that is true but there is still hope. You only have to look around it's summer, and at least here in Europe there are many open air festivals for those who like to see some real music. Rock never was dead, and it will never die.

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Hello!

 

I am glad to say, in my country, every fifth person (my estimation) is involded with music some way.

 

According to statistics, piano and violin are the most popular instruments here, followed by classical guitar.

 

At my job, - where we have a bit more than 100 workers -, more than 20 are playing music. Even professionally trained, and/or performing musicians here.

 

Thanks to Kodály Zoltán. [thumbup]

 

Cheers... Bence

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with everything there are trends. music suffers from this just as much as any. Pop music today is mostly rubbish, with a large majority of the people who get the most attention void of any real talent. look at the top album sales in the last few years. ask yourself if any of those people will be relevant in 5 years.

 

but that is not to say that if you look around, you'll still find great music.

 

In our little corner of New England (Central Mass) there are more clubs having rock and blues bands playing on the weekends then there has been in the last 10 years.

 

There are at least three clubs in a 5 mile radius doing Sunday open blues jams, with a few pizza pubs hosting open mics once a week.

 

In our down town area, a park that has sat idle for decades, is now having a few out side concerts a week during the summer in Gazebo that's been there for ever.. Most of the bands playing there are rock or blues/rock oriented and the crowds have been great.

 

So I say,, no, this is hardly the way it's going in my neck of the woods.

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The musical guest in question probably comps more records than Joe sells.

 

rct

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I feel sorry for young people today because of what computers have done to music. They have very little quality to listen to. They listen to music recorded in studios where no two musicians ever played together. Songs are recorded by adding one player at a time on a digital ladder almost like stacking pie plates. Drums are typically computer generated.

Sorry to bash but there are too many Beyoncé and Pink type female singers that are studio creations. Mamma Cass Elliot and Etta James could never earn a living singing today. Looks and dancing win out over musical talent. Lady Gaga is one of the few female singers that can play and sing. I was listening to a Pink song and was unable to identify and name a single instrument. It all sounded computer generated.

 

That being said: the Beatles and Stones lip synched on tv too.

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you're just not looking in the right places.

 

there's plenty,, but it's not going to be shoved in your face like the tripe in Pop music today.

 

Make a product, sell the product, that's what it's all about Kayne West? LAdy Gaga? Justin Beiber? woa.. enough already.

 

But it's out there you gotta go looking for it..

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I think the bands are there but the whole live music set-up has changed such a lot, certainly in the UK.

It's not too hard for a young band to be heard and to build up an audience - online. Internet changed everything.

As for guitar-oriented rock or whatever, the tide comes in and goes out.....

 

I'm 61 so I am getting a bit antiquated! [biggrin] [biggrin]

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But it's out there you gotta go looking for it..

 

Totally correct IMO. A lot of people only listen to what TV, radio or the media throws at them. There are loads of great bands out there, but you have to be a total music nerd to find it (or use your own initiative!).

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^- well maybe but. that doesn't mean they don't suck...

 

Nobody, including Joe, is in this business to be "good", "not suck", or to be "better" than anyone else. They are in it to sell records and tickets to shows. Period. Whatever means are needed to get to that end. His days for Nostalgia Tours and KlassiKK Joe Shows with a lip synching singer on the next iteration of Johnny Carson show are coming. It's all good if it gets the kids in a good school and pays for the other house.

 

rct

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Nobody, including Joe, is in this business to be "good", "not suck", or to be "better" than anyone else. They are in it to sell records and tickets to shows. Period. Whatever means are needed to get to that end. His days for Nostalgia Tours and KlassiKK Joe Shows with a lip synching singer on the next iteration of Johnny Carson show are coming. It's all good if it gets the kids in a good school and pays for the other house.

 

rct

 

 

true dat rct.. true dat..

 

but still.. IMvHO... Joe is great!

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you're just not looking in the right places.

 

there's plenty,, but it's not going to be shoved in your face like the tripe in Pop music today...

 

But it's out there you gotta go looking for it..

 

This [thumbup]

 

Tons of great bands and tons of shows - but you have to exert the effort to find them. Or just keep listening to classic radio and the same 200 songs. :rolleyes:

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I'm a 21 year old guitarist so I guess I represent the upcoming generation here. While I love real musicians and live shows as much as anyone else here, I also love the new music that's started up in the last 5-10 years. The biggest wave of new music is Electronic Dance Music (EDM) which is the music my generation will be remembered for. There are almost no instruments involved. Everything is produced within a DAW like FL Studio or Ableton Live using built in effects and external MIDI controllers/synthesizers. EDM has such a huge following now that it may be bigger than any other genre. Some of the EDM shows and festivals that are held yearly make Woodstock look like a backyard party. People, mostly my age, show up in the tens of thousands for these shows to see their favorite DJs and producers perform. I've only been to one of these shows and it was one of the best experiences I've ever had. The one I went to was a two day show with over 40,000 people in attendance but many of the larger shows have several hundred thousand people there and last for three days to a week.

 

That being said, I absolutely love playing guitar and I love older music. Especially classic rock and blues. However, I also love a lot of the new music coming out today that doesn't necessarily need or involve musicians in any way.

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We're in an era of disposable music. There is no longevity to this era. Music exist mostly on a hard drive or simialr storeage device and can easily be disposed of. The colletability of albums and CD's do not seem to be of value in the era. One of our younger members indicated his generation love to go to shows and see DJ's and Producers perform. :blink: Forgive me but what exactly do they perform.?

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We're in an era of disposable music. There is no longevity to this era. Music exist mostly on a hard drive or simialr storeage device and can easily be disposed of. The colletability of albums and CD's do not seem to be of value in the era.

 

Just because the medium is "disposable", doesn't mean the music is (though I'm not sure how a hard drive is any more disposable than a record, but that's another argument). If you experience something and do not photograph it, does it cease to exist? Or does it still live in your mind and the minds of others who experienced it?

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Man, Joe Boner is such a whiner. You're one of the top guitar players out there today (even without me as a fan!) and probably grossing $$$$$ from playing live and you act like some grumpy old man. Where's the, "get off my lawn!" twitter post?

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...One of our younger members indicated his generation love to go to shows and see DJ's and Producers perform....Forgive me but what exactly do they perform.?

In the same way that countless musicians throughout the centuries have melded various disparate pre-written melodies into "Medleys" and 'classical' conductors assume the role of the 'General Assembler/Orchestrator' of works by 16th/17th/18th/19th/20th C. composers the (modern) DJ's function AFAIK is to use previously composed musical works and turn them into some new/fresh musical form which can (and will) be enjoyed and appreciated by the audience assembled.

 

Few of the really legendary 'classical' conductors wrote (of have yet written) musical works to rival those of, say, Bach or Beethoven, yet they are still held in the highest regard for their own Greatness in their own field.

 

DJs? Much the same.

 

Pip.

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In the same way that countless musicians throughout the centuries have melded various disparate pre-written melodies into "Medleys" and 'classical' conductors assume the role of the 'General Assembler/Orchestrator' of works by 16th/17th/18th/19th/20th C. composers the (modern) DJ's function AFAIK is to use previously composed musical works and turn them into some new/fresh musical form which can (and will) be enjoyed and appreciated by the audience assembled.

 

Few of the really legendary 'classical' conductors wrote (of have yet written) musical works to rival those of, say, Bach or Beethoven, yet they are still held in the highest regard for their own Greatness in their own field.

 

DJs? Much the same.

 

Pip.

 

Interesting comments I get that DJ's can be and are popular but what does that have to do with the question asked?

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We're in an era of disposable music. There is no longevity to this era. Music exist mostly on a hard drive or simialr storeage device and can easily be disposed of. The colletability of albums and CD's do not seem to be of value in the era. One of our younger members indicated his generation love to go to shows and see DJ's and Producers perform. :blink: Forgive me but what exactly do they perform.?

 

They perform sets which they have prepared for the show. Usually they include their own tracks as well as tracks by other artists. They have a table on stage which has several mixer boards for them to control the show from. All of their effects boards are usually tied into to one central computer which controls both the music and the light show. Most people know they aren't doing anything up there but pushing buttons and turning knobs but that's not what it's about. You won't see a better light show anywhere else. The DJ's job is to not only control the music and lights but also interact with the crowd. It's all about the experience.

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It seems to me this whole debate is more about performance than music as a greater whole, or it should be.

 

I should preface what follows by saying that, in spite of my blues origins and recent classical pursuits, I am both a proponent and fan of the sort of electronic music that seems to receive an inordinate amount of scorn (personal viewpoint mind you...).

 

I'll keep this fairly brief, and by that I mean I'll probably wander on a brief tangents before circling back to an insufficiently argued main point (that is how these things usually turn out for me, ever the one for asides... I identify with Ovid oh so much).

 

Since the OP was spurred on by a "live" performance, it seems best to start there. What's a performance anyway? Etymologically it comes from the old french words par (to completion) and fournir (to provide), so if we're being horrifyingly dry and analytical... all a live performance is... is to present a piece of music in its entirety in a present, moment by moment setting. Misses the human aspect though, the experiential, sometimes varied bit that elevates it above a recording.

 

So where does that lie? My contention is that it's with the person.

 

In some idioms more than others it leans lovingly into the idea that you "never play it the same twice"... jazz in particular, though Mozart himself was known to improvise extensively on his pieces, one of which as I recall he simply wrote down two voices for and improvised the rest on the spot.

 

But heck, some people just enjoy the atmosphere of listening to music in a disorganized conglomerate of humanity... and if they do, more power to them. If you want to dance like a lunatic for a few hours, surrounded by people doing the same, go for it. And if EDM is the vehicle for terpsichore you enjoy the most, who am I to stop you (I wouldn't anyway as I am known to frequently give an ear to the stuff)? I mean personally it takes latin music to get me moving... throw on some Cumbia, Tango, anything latin'll probably move some part of my stubborn ***

 

People will enjoy what they enjoy, and it doesn't have to be the end of all things good and sane in the world.

 

There've been musical conservatives for longer than any of us have been around. Johannes Brahms notoriously rallied against the styles of Franz Liszt (a flashy, technically mindboggling performer notorious for fiddling with all the music he played... to the point where Frederic Chopin once scolded him for improvising on a piece of his) and his fellows of the "Weimar school" (he, along with a few others went so far as to put pen to official proclamation against that school). Lo and behold though Brahms held a lot of clout through the latter half of the 19th century, the music of dear Liszt, and Wagner was in a number of ways the route to Debussy and his ilk, even Schoenberg in the 20th (though... a fair few people would call that last one a foul development).

 

What I'm getting at is... Give it a listen, give it an honest try once in a while. You don't have to like it, but disliking it doesn't invalidate a thing. You might just not have the ear for it right now, I know it took me a hell of a long time to get to a place where I could enjoy anything labelled death metal (it was the vocals that threw me for so long).

 

After all, we've have the archetype of the crotchety elder scolding the youth as far back as Socrates ("The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.” from a man who died around 400 AD) if there's nothing about "Those damned kids and their rock music" as well something'd feel out of place. :P

 

 

In the same way that countless musicians throughout the centuries have melded various disparate pre-written melodies into "Medleys" and 'classical' conductors assume the role of the 'General Assembler/Orchestrator' of works by 16th/17th/18th/19th/20th C. composers the (modern) DJ's function AFAIK is to use previously composed musical works and turn them into some new/fresh musical form which can (and will) be enjoyed and appreciated by the audience assembled.

Worth mentioning that Handel was known for some very heavy "borrowing" (bordering on straight plagiarism depending on who you ask)... and he was no slouch musically.

 

Supplementary footnote, I have a number of friends who compose in a variety of "electronic" genres, chiptune, EDM, hip hop even. Even if it were always just a play button (and it isn't, in fact a number of those I know are particularly fond of the improvisatory), there's still a lot of thought that goes into what they make (at least, if they're doing it right). Whether or not their school of performance ends up fitting yours isn't the important bit...

 

Part of what I love about music is that it can be as intelligent, political, and complex as you want it to be, and that's fantastic.

 

But at the end of the day it can also be as simple as this... If it sounds good to you, makes you feel, makes you move, etc etc... Then it is good.

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