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MaxiumburnN

pickguard disintegration and corrosion of gold parts

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Yeah the manufactures always try to blame the defective part on the person who's operating whatever the machinery or the car or whatever and it takes a court case to show them what time of day it is. But nowadays the public sympathizes with the people.

If you work for Gibson a better time to wise up

You can't hang with the debate bro give it up..

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Yeah the manufactures always try to blame the defective part on the person who's operating whatever the machinery or the car or whatever and it takes a court case to show them what time of day it is. But nowadays the public sympathizes with the people.

If you work for Gibson a better time to wise up

You can't hang with the debate bro give it up..

In your first post you had added a link to this picture:

 

offgassing.jpg

 

Sorry, but this is a photo of a badly neglected guitar. Merely the strings speak volumes of prolonged disregard and mistreatment. I have seen a lot, but I never saw a guitar looking like this. [crying]

 

I'm in doubt if there's a chance to bring out public sympathy for the owner.

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In your first post you had added a link to this picture:

 

offgassing.jpg

 

Sorry, but this is a photo of a badly neglected guitar. Merely the strings speak volumes of prolonged disregard and mistreatment. I have seen a lot, but I never saw a guitar looking like this. [crying]

 

I'm in doubt if there's a chance to bring out public sympathy for the owner.

This is not his guitar.

 

I'm embarrassed to say, but I think we have fallen for a troll.

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This is not his guitar.

 

I'm embarrassed to say, but I think we have fallen for a troll.

This is my impression, too. The guitar pictured in his first post even wasn't a Gibson.

 

Does he own any guitar at all?

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It is clear all you mother****ers work for the company.

Why the mofos only? Clearly all of us here are affiliated with the company, regardless if mofo or not.

 

What company?

 

;)

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I just happened to notice this thread, as it is not a sub-forum I usually post in.

 

As has been pointed out, the celluloid used in most vintage pickguards--and some high-end modern reproductions--can be both chemically unstable, and highly volatile. Most modern "plastic" pickguards are non-celluloid materials that try to emulate--not always successfully--the look of celluloid.

 

I have only purchased one vintage guitar with a disintegrating celluloid pickguard--ironically, a 1947 Gibson L-7 archtop. Not only was the pickguard starting to go, it had damaged the adjacent finish, the frets were starting to discolor, and the screws holding the pickguard had rusted.

 

I removed it, and put it in a Ziploc bag, whereupon it started to deteriorate at a fairly rapid pace, basically decomposing into a sticky mush.

 

This phenomenon is well-known, and is not unique to Gibson. You also see it in the "tortoise"-look body binding of guitars from the 1960's and 1970's, particularly. As has been pointed out, storing a guitar in a tight-fitting case and never taking it out will aggravate and accelerate the problem, once it starts, but I don't know if it can actually initiate this type of decomposition.

 

Aa far as I can tell, it's completely unpredictable which pieces will deteriorate, and when. By the way, I believe the old "plastic" tuner knobs are also celluloid-based, and can deteriorate over time in a similar fashion.

 

It may have something to do with the manufacturing process, which involves taking thick blocks of celluloid and slicing it into the thin pieces that later can become pickguards. I don't know whether those slices need to air-cure until out-gassing is complete, or what. Similar problems can occur with other types of plastics, by the way. I've seen a few large fiberglass boats that literally needed hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of repair to replace blistering, out-gassing plastic materials.

 

If this had happened on my new guitar, I would be upset, but I don't think any big-name guitar manufacturers use celluloid for the typical plastic parts these days. On vintage guitars, we understand it is a risk. I do check my vintage guitars regularly for signs of celluloid deterioration.

 

For the record, when I have repro pickguards made for vintage guitars, I insist on---celluloid.

 

Just so you know, the beautiful lacquer finish on your high-end modern or vintage Gibson or Martin is nitrocellulose lacquer, chemically a close cousin to the pickguard's material.

 

I'm sorry for the OP's problem, but it's hard to see Gibson as liable for using what were industry-standard materials with a now-recognized but rare downside potential. Nitrocellulose lacquer can craze, but we generally accept that as part of the normal aging process. If the OP had bought the guitar brand new, and stored it in the case, I suspect that Gibson would step it up and make it right. But that warranty is not transferable.

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I just happened to notice this thread, as it is not a sub-forum I usually post in.

 

As has been pointed out, the celluloid used in most vintage pickguards--and some high-end modern reproductions--can be both chemically unstable, and highly volatile. Most modern "plastic" pickguards are non-celluloid materials that try to emulate--not always successfully--the look of celluloid.

 

I have only purchased one vintage guitar with a disintegrating celluloid pickguard--ironically, a 1947 Gibson L-7 archtop. Not only was the pickguard starting to go, it had damaged the adjacent finish, the frets were starting to discolor, and the screws holding the pickguard had rusted.

 

I removed it, and put it in a Ziploc bag, whereupon it started to deteriorate at a fairly rapid pace, basically decomposing into a sticky mush.

 

This phenomenon is well-known, and is not unique to Gibson. You also see it in the "tortoise"-look body binding of guitars from the 1960's and 1970's, particularly. As has been pointed out, storing a guitar in a tight-fitting case and never taking it out will aggravate and accelerate the problem, once it starts, but I don't know if it can actually initiate this type of decomposition.

 

Aa far as I can tell, it's completely unpredictable which pieces will deteriorate, and when. By the way, I believe the old "plastic" tuner knobs are also celluloid-based, and can deteriorate over time in a similar fashion.

 

It may have something to do with the manufacturing process, which involves taking thick blocks of celluloid and slicing it into the thin pieces that later can become pickguards. I don't know whether those slices need to air-cure until out-gassing is complete, or what. Similar problems can occur with other types of plastics, by the way. I've seen a few large fiberglass boats that literally needed hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of repair to replace blistering, out-gassing plastic materials.

 

If this had happened on my new guitar, I would be upset, but I don't think any big-name guitar manufacturers use celluloid for the typical plastic parts these days. On vintage guitars, we understand it is a risk. I do check my vintage guitars regularly for signs of celluloid deterioration.

 

For the record, when I have repro pickguards made for vintage guitars, I insist on---celluloid.

 

Just so you know, the beautiful lacquer finish on your high-end modern or vintage Gibson or Martin is nitrocellulose lacquer, chemically a close cousin to the pickguard's material.

 

I'm sorry for the OP's problem, but it's hard to see Gibson as liable for using what were industry-standard materials with a now-recognized but rare downside potential. Nitrocellulose lacquer can craze, but we generally accept that as part of the normal aging process. If the OP had bought the guitar brand new, and stored it in the case, I suspect that Gibson would step it up and make it right. But that warranty is not transferable.

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I would definitely not be happy if it would happen on my Tal.

I understand however why they keep using the material in the context of historic reissue.

On the other hand, I play it regularly so it can breath out of the case every week.

If I would really need to store the guitar for a very long time, parano as I am I would probably remove the guard.

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I see a some are still contributing to this thread, but it probably should be removed.

 

Not because the issue of gassing guards isn't real, but the poster and most of the stuff he posted on this thread isn't real. And most of the post are his. This guy posted this thread to start crap, and he very likely doesn't even own any Gibson guitars, but least of all the guitars he posted about. He did it to get us going and perhaps try and give Gibson a bad reputation through false accusation.

 

A REAL thread on this issue is worthwhile, and I think there are on this forum.

 

This wasn't that kinda thread.

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here is just one of my expensive Gibsons that had the outrageous pickguard deterioration, this is the third guitar like that. take a look, I had to remove that pickguard. post-27952-061468700 1446307109_thumb.jpg A super400

 

 

Stein you do'nt know what you are talking about.

post-27952-025432700 1446307237_thumb.jpg

 

The Gold parts started to turn green and oxidize with that defective part.

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here is just one of my expensive Gibsons that had the outrageous pickguard deterioration, this is the third guitar like that. take a look, I had to remove that pickguard. post-27952-061468700 1446307109_thumb.jpg A super400

 

 

Stein you do'nt know what you are talking about.

post-27952-025432700 1446307237_thumb.jpg

 

The Gold parts started to turn green and oxidize with that defective part.

 

 

It's pretty unusual to see that happen on several guitars at the same time, if that's what has happened. Do you have other Gibsons (or other guitars with pickguards) that don't have this problem, that are stored in a similar manner?

 

I've owned Gibsons for 50 years, and have only had this happen on one guitar, and that was a guitar that already had the problem when I bought it. I don't know if there are potential environmental issues that can add to the problem, or what.

 

The 1947 L-7 I bought with a disintegrating pickguard was owned for 60+ years by a very heavy smoker, and both guitar and the case it was in absolutely reeked of tobacco smoke. It took me days to clean the nicotine off the inside and outside of the guitar.

 

Fortunately, the insides of these old archtops are usually sealed with what appears to be shellac or something similar. I had to get rid of the case (actually a heavy, airtight gig bag of the same vintage as the guitar). My wife wouldn't let me bring it in the house.

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These guitars it worth over $10,000 it doesn't make any sense that they manufacture a part that is defective under certain conditions meaning it's in its case too long???which is ridiculous. Maybe they need to design a case that lets oxygen in and vapors out at while making it waterproof at the same time. Have you thought of that?

It's just too much money to be spending on something that you have to replace that you thought was a luxury item but it falls apart it's not right!

I want to know what Gibson is going to do about it?

 

 

With all due respect, two of these guitars are 40 years old. Unless you are the original owner, surely you can't expect Gibson to cover this under some kind of warranty?

 

I don't know why this would happen on the newer guitar, unless it was stored in close proximity to the others, or was kept in a case that had previously held one of the old guitars. I sometimes put new guitars in old cases, and vice-versa.

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Is this discussion still going on? Talk about beating a dead horse. This thread should have been locked about 50 posts ago.

 

Everything to be said on this subject I wrote in post #7.

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With all due respect, two of these guitars are 40 years old. Unless you are the original owner, surely you can't expect Gibson to cover this under some kind of warranty?

 

I don't know why this would happen on the newer guitar, unless it was stored in close proximity to the others, or was kept in a case that had previously held one of the old guitars. I sometimes put new guitars in old cases, and vice-versa.

 

 

This happened to 3 Gibsons over 10 years. Gibson should cover these particular guitars because they are supposed to be the very best luxury items and are very costly to obtain.

They clearly should have a guarantee for the faulty construction but not misuse. Since they claim to be the best they need to admit the well documented defect and fix it.

If someone could pull up the Archtop guarantee I'd like to see it.

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This happened to 3 Gibsons over 10 years. Gibson should cover these particular guitars because they are supposed to be the very best luxury items and are very costly to obtain.

They clearly should have a guarantee for the faulty construction but not misuse. Since they claim to be the best they need to admit the well documented defect and fix it.

If someone could pull up the Archtop guarantee I'd like to see it.

 

This is the Gibson warranty that applies to all new instruments. The particular warranty copied here is for a Gibson Nashville Custom Shop Historic Collection archtop that I own, but it's the same warranty supplied with all new instruments Gibson makes, to the best of my knowledge.

 

Note that the warranty is for the life of the original owner, and is not transferable. Since you are not the original owner, your guitars are clearly not covered, any more than your 40-year-old Ferrari's engine would be, even if you were the original owner.

 

You're on your own from here on out. I don't think anyone here can help you.

 

Gibson%20warranty_zps43zsc2li.jpeg

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This is the Gibson warranty that applies to all new instruments. The particular warranty copied here is for a Gibson Nashville Custom Shop Historic Collection archtop that I own, but it's the same warranty supplied with all new instruments Gibson makes, to the best of my knowledge.

 

Note that the warranty is for the life of the original owner, and is not transferable. Since you are not the original owner, your guitars are clearly not covered, any more than your 40-year-old Ferrari's engine would be, even if you were the original owner.

 

You're on your own from here on out. I don't think anyone here can help you.

 

Gibson%20warranty_zps43zsc2li.jpeg

 

I guess you represent Gibson since you seem to speaking for everyone in the forum? Who said I'm not the original owner??? Please be careful how you answer this question because you really don't know who I am.

If you represent the company you should state it.

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I guess you represent Gibson since you seem to speaking for everyone in the forum? Who said I'm not the original owner??? Please be careful how you answer this question because you really don't know who I am.

If you represent the company you should state it.

 

 

Look at your own first post. You said one of these guitars was a 2006 guitar that you recently purchased.

 

If you are the original owner of these guitars, and purchased them from an authorized Gibson dealer, you might have a valid warranty claim. If you aren't the original owner, you don't. Now, please go away. I'm finished here.

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My "guess" is that Gibson will do nothing about it. They made a guitar to play, not store, and a case to carry it in, not to store it. It is obvious that it was stored for a time in poor temp/humidity conditions. Gibson did not make or suggest those conditions. I am sorry for your loss on such great instruments. Check the warranty card on those instruments from when you purchased them new or ask your dealer about a warranty claim.

 

 

The majority of purchasers of Gibson Custom Shop guitars prefer as close to vintage materials as possible. Yes Gibson could to use other materials, but have chosen to try to stay true to as close to vintage as possible. What did your selling dealer tell you about a warranty replacement? It sounds more like you came here to start a confrontation rather than gain information.

 

 

I was waiting for him to post a picture of his actual guitar but that never happened.

 

 

 

 

It doesn't matter if I am the original owner. It is a defective product. The fact that some of them were bought used and some where bought new with the same problem only re-enforces my claim. And why would I show my receipts??? I don't know you and you're not trying to help. It is the light brown tortoise shell pick guards that have this problem.

 

 

Yeah the manufactures always try to blame the defective part on the person who's operating whatever the machinery or the car or whatever and it takes a court case to show them what time of day it is. But nowadays the public sympathizes with the people.

If you work for Gibson a better time to wise up

You can't hang with the debate bro give it up..

 

 

It is clear all you mother****ers work for the company.

 

 

I guess you represent Gibson since you seem to speaking for everyone in the forum? Who said I'm not the original owner??? Please be careful how you answer this question because you really don't know who I am.

If you represent the company you should state it.

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If someone could pull up the Archtop guarantee I'd like to see it.

 

 

This is the Gibson warranty that applies to all new instruments. .....

Note that the warranty is for the life of the original owner, and is not transferable. Since you are not the original owner, your guitars are clearly not covered,

 

You're on your own from here on out. I don't think anyone here can help you.

 

Gibson%20warranty_zps43zsc2li.jpeg

 

 

I guess you represent Gibson since you seem to speaking for everyone in the forum? Who said I'm not the original owner??? Please be careful how you answer this question because you really don't know who I am.

If you represent the company you should state it.

See how he is?

 

He's had plenty of "help", but gets NASTY when he actually gets it.

 

His motivation isn't to fix anything, it's to bash Gibson.

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See how he is?

 

He's had plenty of "help", but gets NASTY when he actually gets it.

 

His motivation isn't to fix anything, it's to bash Gibson.

You guys have got me all wrong. I'm trying to motivate you and Gibson to make a guitar that lives up to the brand.

Because I am passionate about Gibson guitars is in that clear from my statements.

the thing that bothers me about this form is that some of you guys represent the company and you're trying to totally deflect any criticism of it. But, you're also not stating that you do represent the company so it looks like you know it could be just some Joe blow guy in the forum which makes it a deception.

When in reality you guys should be saying stuff like yeah you know you have a point you have bought a lot of our merchandise. But no I am like lying about what's going on, I'm keeping my guitars under the water it's totally ridiculous what people have said in this form and I hope that those people don't represent Gibson.

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IF he even called, I'm guessing it went something like this:

MaxiumburnN: "Dear low level staff person, I demand you give me warranty service because I didn't properly care for my guitars."

Gibson: "Bwahahahahahahahaha"

 

 

 

Wanted to tell you that this "Dear low level staff person" thing has become a running gag between me and my girlfriend.

 

First time we read it we laught us to tears.

At least this thread was good for something.

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Dear low level staff person, they can do something about these defective pickguards, they can make them from a different plastic, they can make them out of wood if need be.

 

As a "low level staff person" I am telling you this:

 

 

File a Warranty claim: http://www.gibson.co...t/Warranty.aspx

 

If you cannot complete the claim, contact the dealer that sold the guitar and they can file a claim for you.

 

If you feel that the materials used are defective, please contact customer service and have them transfer you to the legal dept. 1-800-4GIBSON (1-800-444-2766)

Make sure you have your bill of sale showing you are the original purchaser of the guitar in question.

 

I will make sure I mention the "defective" material to Henry next time I see him.

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