Matt237 Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Well, I posted a while back about removing the LR Baggs Element UST from my Hummingbird - I'd pulled the UST out, fitted a new saddle and left the pre-amp and all the wiring inside the guitar.....and all was good. Today I set about removing the whole wiring loom, as I was happy with the set up and will never use the Baggs in the future.....what a sticky, messy job!! Easy removing the pre-amp, and unclipping the wiring loom. But then removing the wiring clips and battery bag was a big pain in the arse. They are stuck to the inside of the guitar with self adhesive little sticky pads...which when removed leave a sticky, gluey residue!!! Took me 2 hours of gentle scraping, scratching and rubbing at it to get it all off! Especially where the battery pack was on the neck block - had to resort to rubbing at the residue with some 80 grit sand paper! Didn't want to use any sort of chemical as it is bare wood on the inside, so just good old time and effort! Anyway, just a warning to anyone thinking of doing the same - it does all come off, but it ain't so easy! Wish I'd taken some photos of it, but grabbing the camera was the last thing on my mind at that time!! Feel better now though not having a load of redundant wiring inside the body. Fitted one of the NoJak endpins, which works like a dream. Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 This is good to hear. Except the scraping off glue part. Funny, I have had the glue holding the velcro for the battery bag fail and cause a rather deep boom that made quite a few folks duck. Have also had glue failure on those little wire clips. Glad you had this success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse_Dylan Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Oh man. I had been thinking in my mind that I was capable of removing a stock Baggs Element from a Gibson and replacing it with a Baggs Lyric. I guess I am glad and lucky that I was able to mail the Lyric to E.M. Shorts guitars and that they're going to do it for me, because it sounds like I would have been in for way more than I was bargaining for......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 I put a Lyric in my Koa AJ. Drilling the end pin hole took about 10 minutes of careful drilling. Took about 5-6 minutes to do the rest. The Lyric is real nice and a relatively easy install. If I can do it, literally anyone can. However, I do understand any hesitancy one might have. I thought about it for a few day before I got the guts to start drilling...lol.... My J45 and Dove have the Baggs element. I've heard a lot of people complain about it, but it works well for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullmental Alpinist Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Matt237, Didn't happened to weigh your guitar before and after or weigh all the elements of the pickup, battery and bag, and loom etc? I'm curious how much weight the pick-up system adds to the guitar. FMA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse_Dylan Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 I put a Lyric in my Koa AJ. Drilling the end pin hole took about 10 minutes of careful drilling. Took about 5-6 minutes to do the rest. The Lyric is real nice and a relatively easy install. If I can do it, literally anyone can. However, I do understand any hesitancy one might have. I thought about it for a few day before I got the guts to start drilling...lol.... My J45 and Dove have the Baggs element. I've heard a lot of people complain about it, but it works well for me. I think as far as under-saddle transducers go, the Element might be the best one really. One of my guitars (a Composite Acoustics made of carbon fiber--and green!) has the Baggs Stage Pro which is the Element but with a preamp on the side. No, it definitely doesn't sound anything like the guitar, but it sounds decent and guitar-like. The Lyric, of course, is different since it's a microphone. It's not perfect either, but I am a sucker for the mic'd sound. Even an imperfect soundboard mic (which only hears the soundboard and doesn't sound as full as an external mic) satisfies me--sounds especially fantastic with a band. Can't beat that guitar/bass/drums sound, and the Lyric really fits in there. It's fine solo, too, but I think I'll still want a mic in front of the guitar if I can, even when using the Lyric. (Sorry, that was all kind of an aside.) Maybe when it comes time to put a Lyric in another of my guitars, I'll give it a try myself............ It's just that endpin hole drilling business...! Basically, I'm not sure I'm capable of 10 minutes of careful drilling. Maybe if I had some way to practice first :P Matt237, Didn't happened to weigh your guitar before and after or weigh all the elements of the pickup, battery and bag, and loom etc? I'm curious how much weight the pick-up system adds to the guitar. FMA I've wondered about that, too. I don't know if having something under the saddle affects tone in any measureable way, but having the endpin jack, the battery bag, the extra weight, all that stuff... along with something under the saddle...? Maybe not, but I'm curious, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motherofpearl Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Just to add my .2 but if you play in a band at all I wouldn't recommend a lyric. I tried one and it was awful and thin sounding. Better suited for solo performance I'd say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse_Dylan Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Just to add my .2 but if you play in a band at all I wouldn't recommend a lyric. I tried one and it was awful and thin sounding. Better suited for solo performance I'd say. Interesting! I saw a few videos where it sounded good, so I'm hoping for similar effect (granted maybe with fiddling and EQ). Maybe I'll wish I'd kept the Element! I always have my green guitar to fall back on tho. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt237 Posted August 21, 2015 Author Share Posted August 21, 2015 Just weighed it in - its 97grams total weight, which includes the whole wiring, pre-amp end pin, 9v battery and all the clips / battery bags etc. I'm sure its my imagination, but I could believe that removing the velcro battery bag from the inside has produced a slightly crisper and more resonant bass response!!! Removing the actual under saddle transducer bit from under the saddle that I did a while ago had a definite improvement on the sound. In line with the LR Baggs recommendation I guess, the standard Gibson saddle fit was quite sloppy in the bridge. So after I removed the pickup, I refitted with a proper tight fitting saddle, which probably accounts for most of the sonic improvement. Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullmental Alpinist Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 97 grams equals 3.42 ounces. Not as much as I would have thought. Thanks for posting that. FMA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse_Dylan Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Just weighed it in - its 97grams total weight, which includes the whole wiring, pre-amp end pin, 9v battery and all the clips / battery bags etc. I'm sure its my imagination, but I could believe that removing the velcro battery bag from the inside has produced a slightly crisper and more resonant bass response!!! Removing the actual under saddle transducer bit from under the saddle that I did a while ago had a definite improvement on the sound. In line with the LR Baggs recommendation I guess, the standard Gibson saddle fit was quite sloppy in the bridge. So after I removed the pickup, I refitted with a proper tight fitting saddle, which probably accounts for most of the sonic improvement. Matt Really interesting again! I have an L.R. Baggs Cargo, and I removed the battery and battery bag and just scotch-taped the wire onto the side. I thought perhaps it is such a small guitar, but it definitely sounded "better" to me without the battery and bag. Could be my imagination. Could also be like putting wood pins into my Hummingbird, something only I would notice as the player (which could also have been my imagination). The Cargo is one of those guitars that sounds totally different in front than it does to the player, too, so who knows. I didn't remove the Element entirely, though, just the battery. Now I have to wonder what taking the UST out would do. Hm. I seriously doubt I'll ever use it... I would have to get someone competent to fit a saddle, though. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt237 Posted August 21, 2015 Author Share Posted August 21, 2015 Ha Ha Jesse, you can fit a new saddle bro! Next time you change the strings on it, take them all off, and see if the saddle falls out when you turn the guitar over. If so, I would say its a loose fitting one, and would surely benefit from fitting a slightly wider one for a snug fit. On my 'bird, the original saddle was so loose that when i took all the strings off, the saddle lifted itself out with the springiness of the Baggs UST under it!! Now that MUST have been impeding the potential of the whole guitar....and thats kind of the point for me - I love to tinker with my guitars, cos sometimes the simple things can maximise the guitars potential. I'm not looking to change the tone - I love how my Hummingbird sounds, but some simple changes can certainly 'improve' the way the guitar works and sounds. Plus, I enjoy seeing how it all works! Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse_Dylan Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Ha Ha Jesse, you can fit a new saddle bro! Next time you change the strings on it, take them all off, and see if the saddle falls out when you turn the guitar over. If so, I would say its a loose fitting one, and would surely benefit from fitting a slightly wider one for a snug fit. On my 'bird, the original saddle was so loose that when i took all the strings off, the saddle lifted itself out with the springiness of the Baggs UST under it!! Now that MUST have been impeding the potential of the whole guitar....and thats kind of the point for me - I love to tinker with my guitars, cos sometimes the simple things can maximise the guitars potential. I'm not looking to change the tone - I love how my Hummingbird sounds, but some simple changes can certainly 'improve' the way the guitar works and sounds. Plus, I enjoy seeing how it all works! Matt I'm the same--love fiddling around with stuff. I will have to check each of my guitars now whenever I change strings because I'll want to know if the saddle is too loose. :P I still don't think I would be able to fit a new one myself, but if one falls out on me, I'll make a note to get it looked at. Frankly, the majority of my guitars have never even had a first setup, just whatever they were out of the factory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR GIBS Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I don't like that L.R.Baggs Element (matter of fact I don't like any L.R.Baggs model) and my luthier took these pickups out of all my Gibson acoustics. Now I use K&K Triniti Mini system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse_Dylan Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I don't like that L.R.Baggs Element (matter of fact I don't like any L.R.Baggs model) and my luthier took these pickups out of all my Gibson acoustics. Now I use K&K Triniti Mini system. You don't even like the L.R. Baggs Lyric? I thought about the K&K Triniti but in the end went with the Lyric because I don't like words that end in "i". :) Just kidding about the "i" part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Googster Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Hello, All: It's my first post. I actually found the board while searching "L.R. Baggs Element Pickup Removal," and soon discovered that Matt's threads on the subject are some of the very few references available. Good work, Matt. See, I bought a 2013 sj100 1941 reissue about 2 years back. I'd always dreamed of owning a Gibson jumbo, and this came along at the right time and the right price. I love the guitar, but I've long felt it's been holding back on me somehow, acoustically speaking. Like almost every new Gibson, it came with the Baggs under-saddle pickup. So, like Matt, I've decided to pull the element out from under the Tusq saddle, tuck the wire up somewhere (in case I ever want to sell), pop in a bone replacement saddle and Bob's your uncle. I've read Matt's more recent posts about trying to remove the system entirely, and I'm glad I have no plans to do so at this time. But Matt, I am interested in what the original process was like to stow that element wire up in the catacombs for safekeeping. Was that relatively trouble-free? Did you have ample clips to tuck it safely away without wires rattling around inside? I've got a new saddle on the way and I'm going to be facing the job in a few days. Just thought I'd gather some information before rolling up my sleeves. Thanks in advance. And thanks, everyone. Happy to be here. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Welcome to the forum. You'll typically find the answers you're looking-for in here. Lots of lots of real knowledgeable folks in here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Matt237, Didn't happened to weigh your guitar before and after or weigh all the elements of the pickup, battery and bag, and loom etc? I'm curious how much weight the pick-up system adds to the guitar. FMA Or , you could just weigh the pickup battery and bag 🙃 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Googster Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Welcome to the forum. You'll typically find the answers you're looking-for in here. Lots of lots of real knowledgeable folks in here. Thanks very kindly, MO Picker. Yeah, when I stumbled across this forum and started poking around I was kind of blown away by some of the reading to be had here (never mind the pictures!). Happy to finally be a Gibson owner after so many years of longing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieHH Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 On 8/21/2015 at 5:35 AM, Fullmental Alpinist said: Matt237, Didn't happened to weigh your guitar before and after or weigh all the elements of the pickup, battery and bag, and loom etc? I'm curious how much weight the pick-up system adds to the guitar. FMA At a guess, the weight of the elements. Streuth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 I would've liked to have heard an A/B before & after with all things being equal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Googster Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 (edited) Gosh, I wish I'd have done an A/B for y'all, but I guess I was too far down into the project to think about anything but getting it done without screwing the pooch. However, I suppose I owe anyone who was interested at least a follow-up: I never did pull the whole thing out. Matt wrote about the nightmare of trying to remove the whole pickup system from the guitar, so I opted to just pull what could and tuck the rest inside, securing the wire back on itself over a couple of the little hooks. So far, no unraveling or flopping or other nuisance. I will say I'm delighted by the improvement in sound. With such a big ol' top on this guitar, it defies logic to think it wouldn't have made any difference and it was immediately apparent. So I thought, heck--since the bone saddle made such a difference, let's go with bone bins too! That turned out to be a disaster. Maybe it was the inexpert way I sanded them down to fit the holes--I don't know--but the sound was jarring and absolutely awful. It was if each string had a mind of its own and all six of them were pulling in different directions, sonically speaking: jangly, noisy and harsh. I immediately put the plastic (Tusq, I guess) originals back in and the problem vanished. (The originals look a lot cooler, too!) So if anyone happens by this post and wonders whether it was worth it to pull the under-saddle pickup out and get a clean-bone-to-wood connection--well, it sure was for me. Clean, dry Mahogany pop and growl. (Never weighed out the difference, but even with the pickup inside, this big guitar is incredibly light) I bought the SJ-100 as a second guitar to my main Martin HD28, but now the Gibby's getting far more play and has been for some time now. Love, love, love it. Thanks for all the help, Googster Edited September 29, 2020 by Googster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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