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Original PAF value?


Nolaslider

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Posted

post-73864-097139700 1441839311_thumb.jpgHi there,

 

New to the forum. Just acquired a very lovely 1958 ES-175 w original labeled PAFs. I'm trying to ascertain the approximate value of the pickups with the complete harness in tact. The pickups have never been opened and it appears the mounting rings and wiring are all orig. I don't want to sell these but I am thinking that it may be prudent to pull the harness as is and store it since I don't love love the sounds of the pickups and more importantly I would feel a little less uneasy about gigging this guitar, and it's way too fine a box not to play it for real.

Any help with approximate value on the pickups/harness? Early '58 so prob no white coils or zebras, sound clear and low output so prob still spec'd at 7.2 neck and bridge. Mild play wear on covers, all solder joints seem to be intact, esp the pickup covers which have definitely not been removed. Labels are undisturbed.

 

Thanks!

Posted

That's a good question. Maybe a good plan on your part.

 

As for the value in dollar terms, it's hard to say, and even if I did, that may be completely wrong a year from now.

 

It depends also, on who is selling them, or who is buying. I don't mean that as the same old cliche', rather, I have seen them at venders who specialize as high as 2500 bucks. But also seen them on EBAY for 1000 and not sold.

 

Obviously, a vender is going to be able to sell them for much more than a guy off the street.

 

Also, with the stupid money these potentially bring, that could change drastically.

 

One of the reasons they bring such high dollars (at times), is there is a huge market in restoring vintage guitars, many of which have been robbed of original pups. It's likely gotton out of hand to the point of some separating them from the guitars to make a few extra bucks.

 

I guess another way of putting it is if you have to find them and buy them, you are going to pay a lot more than what you would get selling them. The reason venders can get such money for them is they are so hard to find, and so specific during that time period too.

Posted

Oh yeah, I wouldn't want to have to ever part with the pickups (although they are a killer investment since there will always be someone trying to restore or recreate a sunburst LP and if there was a dire situation...) so I could always restore the guitar to stock. the guitar has more practical value to me because it just plays/sounds incredible, even unplugged. There may be nothing that will sounds exactly like these, but a good, transparent sounding low wind PAF repor could probably do the trick. Even at volume, I feel like I'm really hearing the wood, which of course is part of the beauty of those pickups, but I don;t think they are the make or break factor for why the guitar sounds so fine. So I think i could fully enjoy and employ this guitar as a working instrument while keeping the most valuable part of the investment out of circulation.

And I know this is well beaten ground, but if you have any of the big name repros, especially a low wind version, let me know what you think of them. Part of the beauty of the response of these is that you can dial them down to settings where they sound very transparent and acoustic, even at amp settings where you will hit good saturation with the pickups wide open. Right now the Klein Epic 58s sound good from the clips and description, and I've heard the raves about SD and Throbak. If you have first hand experience with any of them, lemme know. thanks!

Posted

If you're not selling the pickups (and good for you if this is the truth), then why are you asking about the value of them now? By the time you ever put them back in and restore the guitar to its original state, the value could very well be different.

 

It's also hard to believe that you're so enamored of the unplugged sound of this 175, as though it's so special and so different from all the other plywood 175's or gig-practical 175 clones.

 

"...they are a killer investment since there will always be someone trying to restore or recreate a sunburst LP and if there was a dire situation..."

 

Ah, so you're keeping that possibility open for the "future", then? Wonderful. At least you're going to "store" them first. :rolleyes:

 

It's your right to do what you want with those pickups, but people don't have to like it. I don't like to see great vintage guitars messed with. I know it happens all the time, and I know there are thousands of them out there, but that's my opinion.

 

If I'm wrong about your intentions, then I sincerely apologize, but that's my take on your story.

Posted

Ya know what, I'm taking that down.

 

Jim, I have no interest in turning my quest to get this guitar to a place where I am comfortable using as a working instrument into anything that carries the tone of your inquiry. I understand the importance of keeping a vintage piece like this in tact as much as possible, but I don't think that surpasses the need of the instrument to be played. There is also an anomaly with this model because of the pickups may in fact be equal to or greater than the value of the whole instrument with the pickups in it. That means I'm carrying way more risk than I feel is justified when I take it out of the house. And if someday I need the bread, bye bye PAFs and I'm keeping the guitar. I'm a full time working musician, and this instrument is a major investment for me. If at the end of the day I have to sell the pickups to pay the bills, so be it. That's not the case now nor my future desire, but it is more than my right.

And son, if you don't know the difference between a 1958 Gibson laminate instrument that been pro played all it's life and some piece of cheese of the rack at your local GC, whether it says Gibson or not, I feel sorry for you!

Very grateful that this axe was entrusted to me. I'm gonna do my best to play her as she should be played.

Pickups ordered, friend is getting together vintage correct parts for a replacement harness, and soon enough this axe will be on the bandstand where it belongs.

Thanks to all of you for your input. I appreciate it.

Posted

I don't have any bad feelings, but I kinda cringe a little at seeing the guitar separated from the pups.

 

What I don't really understand, is you describe these pups as sounding great. It sounds to me, from your description, that you LIKE the sound of them.

 

I agree a great guitar should be played. But the same is true for the pups. It would be a shame for your audience NOT to be able to hear them. And really, unlike a guitar, pups do not wear out.

 

A guy has to do what he has to sometimes, I get that. Life is short too. Time is something we don't get back.

 

Play 'em if you got 'em.

  • 3 weeks later...
Posted

Yes, play em if you got em. The intsrument, that is. Screw the pickups. Their value as a collectors piece far outweighs their practical value. I can play the axe and have it sound damn near the same with a pair of good repros that cost a few hundred bucks while keeping the bulk of the value of the guitar (the pickups) out of circulation and not have to carry $6-10k with of pickups with me everytime I take the guitar out of the house. I live in a tough city, and that's a real consideration.

And believe, me the guitar will make a lot more people (especially me) happy being played on stage with non-orig pickups than it would never leaving the house. And as a working pro musician, if I can remove the pickups, have a high value salable asset on ice while still making money with the guitar, that's a win-win. The possible downside is that an old guitar gets a little further away from it's factory original state. If that's the price of keeping this instrument working and the pickups giving some well needed cushioning to a working pro musician's savings, I'd say screw the originaity, let the guitar be played and let a musician have just a hair more financial security. Because if the originality of a vintage instrument means more to you than the music that axe can make, and means more to you than a musician having more assets to work with, we have very different values.

Posted

Why not just sell the guitar to someone who will appreciate it as it is.

Then buy a similar guitar that has already been butchered, put whatever pick ups you want in it, and play away.

No insult intended, once butchered it is butchered, and it's value as a vintage instrument is greatly reduced.

Or just play it the way it is.

Just my 2 bits.

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