Gibson J-50 vs J-55 "Deluxe", very late '60s or early '70s

[Jesse_Dylan]

You guys are going to get sick of my talking about the same things ad nauseum.

 

I am loosely entertaining the notion of trying to replace Dad's old friend, a Gibson from the very late '60s or very early '70s that he adored. However, I cannot even narrow down which model he had precisely. I am thinking a J-50 or a J-55 Deluxe. Is there any way to know for sure? He has no clue, and the guitar itself is lost to time (was destroyed). I also don't want to quiz him to the point where he develops any notion of what I might be doing.

 

From what I can recall...

 

Rosewood bridge pins (I have these, though it's possible they were not stock)

Batwing pickguard (90% sure)

natural top (100% sure)

chrome or nickel keystone tuner buttons (90% sure)

square-shoulder (as they all were at that time--100% sure)

mahogany/spruce (100% sure)

suffered a headstock break (100% sure) where headstock meets neck (90% sure)

Black hardshell case that said Gibson on it (100% sure)

Purple lining to case (much more purple than what they use in the brown cases now--100% sure)

It had a J in its name (90% sure--think I'd remember if it had been a Gospel or something)

 

No recollection of whether the back was arched or not (J-55 Deluxe was arched, I believe; J-50 was not). No recollection of if the bridge was belly up or down. I think down.

 

That's honestly about all I can remember. I got excited about the J-50 that was recently posted from Craig's List, but I am wondering if maybe his was a J-55 Deluxe, not a J-50. What is the difference, other than the bridge pins and back??

[mike m]

Hey Jesse,

Maybe this helps?

1970 J-50, I bought this new in 1973? at a small local music shop in Hackensack, NJ.

Robbie's Music City. They actually grew pretty big with acouple of highway stores.

At the shop in Hackensack they had this J-50 and a 1970 J-45. Both brand new. I liked them both,

but the J-45 was very red and yellow and I had bought a cherry sunburst Les Paul and decided on the J-50.

I realize now that that very red sunburst would have faded and darkened over time.

This J-50 has been ignored for long periods of time but now that I have time to play every day it's seldom in it's case.

This model J-50/J-45 was made in 1969 & 1970, square shoulders, tortoise tear drop pick guard, mahoggany back & sides.

The headstock has a pearl-like Gibson logo inlay, not a decal.

These were shipped as Gibson Diamond Jubilee, 75th anniversary models. I still have the Diamond Jubilee hang tag.

These models had no inside labels in the soundhole. There is no back seam cover on the inside.

Some people believe the back and sides are laminated. I don't think that is true.

Came with a real nice case. Ess & Ess Quality Case Co., Brooklyn, NY.

I have a lot more info on these if you want.

 

Mike

 

 

[mike m]

Here's a 1971 Gibson Catalog, in Italian.

The J-50 here has a black pick guard, dark body binding, gold headstock decal, has inside backseam strip, Norlin label inside.

 

[zombywoof]

If the J-55 had an arched back it will not have any back bracing. But knowing it and remembering it are two different things.

 

Gibson attempted to deal with headstocks breaking, a natural by product of the move to skinny necks, in a couple of ways. They first reduced the headstock angle. Then around 1970 they started adding a volute to try and strengthen the headstock. I do not know if it is true or not but I have heard the opinion that Gibson placed the volute in the wrong place actually making the headstocks more prone to damage.

[mike m]

Hi,

They added the volute on the 1971 acoustics.

m

[Jesse_Dylan]

Hey guys,

 

Thanks for all the thoughts and info! Really interesting stuff, and cool to see the photo and catalog, too.

 

I finally just up and asked Dad. He said, "gibson is gone--forever--it was a flat back, J 55 as I remember and it was a "2nd", with a flaw that destroyed it eventually and made it really hard to tune on the g string--"

 

So that is about as clear as mud... He thinks J-55 (which I seem to remember as well, not J-50), but a non-arched back.....

 

I don't know about the factory 2nd stuff, or the g-string stuff, or the flaw that eventually destroyed it... What happened was that the headstock broke at the neck (which it sounds like was very, very common, more than I realized from what you guys are saying), and instead of getting it fixed, as soon as it happened, he had a hissy fit, put his foot through the back of the guitar, and then sat there with it for an hour weeping and was depressed for months. He does not deal well with loss.

 

He played a junky Fender for a few years, then replaced the Gibson with a Martin DM (solid top, laminate back/sides) that he loves (and it is a good guitar), but that's another story... I wish he'd just buy himself a decent Gibson--or a Martin--he is not poor. He could have gotten a J-15 today for how much he got ripped off on the DM in 1996.

 

Anyway, neither here nor there. This was long before Facebook, too, so I don't know if I could find any photos of the guitar.... hmm...

[Boyd]

Finally got around to taking a few pictures of my 1974 J-50 Deluxe in response to your questions here and elsewhere. Like I said, it is really beat up. The concept of "humidification" never entered my mind until a few years ago, LOL. But I wonder if all that drying out has contributed to the unique sound it has today?

 

 

 

The headstock just has Gibson stencilled on it. I always liked the simple, unpretentious look of the J-50, nothing fancy at all about it.

 

 

 

I think the broken neck was indeed common. I had mine repaired sometime in the 1980s. Not pretty, but has held up fine ever since then.

 

 

 

In another thread there was some discussion of a low saddle. It is really low on mine and when it became unplayable a few years ago I thought it might have been due to the saddle sinking in. But the luthier didn't seem to think it was a problem. He was able to avoid a neck reset by planing the fretboard and doing a refret. It is setup very nice now and has been stable ever since then.

 

The original bridge spit apart opposite the saddle. A small crack gradually got larger until the guitar became unplayable. I had the bridge replaced back in the 1980s when the broken neck was fixed. That guitar was a real wreck by the time it was 10 or 15 years old, LOL. At least I was able to suppress the urge to kick it in.

 

 

 

These are the original tuners. I had replaced the broken one with something completely different back in the 1970s but swapped them all for the Gibson vintage models when I had it fixed a few years ago. At that time I didn't realize that nice replicas of the originals were available or I would have gone with them.

 

But I have to say, the original tuners were always terrible in terms of function. I remember being unhappy with how stiff they were from the day I got the guitar and I tried all kinds of lubricants. The new ones work much better.

 

 

 

The original bridge pins were just plain black plastic. I replaced them a few years ago with some Martin pins from Guitar Center. Again, I didn't know about the replicas you can get now.

 

 

 

As for J-50 vs J-55, I have no clue. I got the J-50 because it was the only acoustic the little music store had in stock that I could afford back in 1974. Not certain of the price, but I think it was in the $300 to $350 range new. I don't even remember where I got it, I moved around a lot back then. :)

[Jesse_Dylan]

WOW that is a beauty... Sure does look like Dad's, too... We both seem to remember J-55, but... hm. Maybe it was a J-50 Deluxe if it didn't have an arched back. But you'd think one would remember a big old "Deluxe" in a name.

[Boyd]

LOL, thanks…. not so much of a "beauty" anymore. Hard to tell in the photo, but the top has gotten really dark, you might think it was mahogany instead of spruce. ;) And I don't think this was really from the sun. It sat in a case in a basement room for a few years and I think mold attacked the finish. It smelled moldy when I finally took it out and I was surprised at how dark it had gotten over a relatively short period of time.

 

It sure seems like a buyers market for 70's J-50s if you want to get one. I think you could find a bunch of them at the $800 price point mentioned in the other thread. I see a bunch at Guitar Center whenever I do a search on their site, and they look like the kind of thing you could talk them down on.

 

Since the subject of cases came up before, I dragged my original out of the attic since I was taking some other junk up there today. I couldn't afford a hard case so I got this cheapo chip-board case new with the guitar in 1974. Anybody else have a case like this? Basically a cardboard box with very thin plastic imitation leather (like contact paper). The "plush" interior was just a very thin layer of fuzzy stuff. Always was a pain and offered very little protection. The latches never lined up without messing around. Wondering if this was a Gibson product or just something the local shop offered as a cheap alternative? I have seen ads for used 70's J-50s that appeared to include similar original cases.

 

Several years ago a friend was visiting from the EU for the summer and I loaned her this guitar. When I opened the case she started sneezing right away from the moldy smell.. she kept the guitar but I took the case back home and treated it with Lysol.

 

The case is going right back up to a corner in the attic now that I have taken a few pictures.

 

 

 

[Jesse_Dylan]

I had a Gibson LG-0 (I think?), vintage, all mahogany. It had been kept in an unheated trailer for about 30-40 years, and it gets REALLY cold here. And really hot, for that matter, which is probably of way more worry than even the extreme cold. Amazing it held together with just a few cracks, and to my discredit, I sold it (I was 19 and probably wanted to buy a different guitar)

 

--All in one of those chipboard cases!!!!