Dating a 1979 strat

[Gibson Artist]

So ive spotted an 1979 strat on CL, nice git and agreed to buy it monday assuming its original. Not mint by any means, some dings here and there, paint peeling, frets worn down quite a bit, but its still a 70s strat which to me is whats all that matters. The thing is i have zero experience dating vintage gear so i was wondering if you guys could help me a little? Is this webpage correct that if the pickguard is silver underneath it is a 1980? From what im reading Fender didnt use new parts every year, you might get 70s neck/body but get 1980 pups or get 70s/neck body and 1980 caps.

 

While it doesnt bother me much if a knob or screw was replaced from what i was told, if the pickups are 1980, its not considered a 79 which makes a huge difference to new buyers. I tend to trade a lot so i really want to make sure the git is a 79. So is this website correct that a black pickguard underneath is the biggest sign of 70s? http://www.strat-central.com/70sstrats/

 

Here is the git i will be purchasing monday nite if he lets me lift the pickguard. http://providence.craigslist.org/msg/5218946470.html

 

Anyone with some insight please chime in.

[slimt]

If its heavy.. take a back brace.. Not much to really say about 70s strats.. just dont overpay.. I would imagine its a 3 bolt neck.. those werent the best design.

[Gibson Artist]

If its heavy.. take a back brace.. Not much to really say about 70s strats.. just dont overpay.. I would imagine its a 3 bolt neck.. those werent the best design.

He says its 7.84 lbs. I did some searching and found legit strats from 79 weighing 7lbs 12 ounces so it seems close. Like i said, im not an expert, just dont wanna get ripped. I have nothing against a worn part replaced id rather have a workin git then none, but i dont want a 1980 strat, im looking for 70s for when i decide to trade/sell sometime down the road.

[slimt]

Hope it works out for you.

[jdgm]

I'm no expert but can't see anything that looks wrong from the pics - in fact it looks totally authentic, about '78 or '79.

I can't confirm about the black pickguard but check the reg.

Headstock, machines, bullet truss rod, stripe on back of neck and 3-bolt backplate all look good.

Played a few of these myself.

And it should be heavy. Good price, you would pay that figure or more in £(GBP) over here in UK!

[Gibson Artist]

I'm no expert but can't see anything that looks wrong from the pics - in fact it looks totally authentic, about '78 or '79.

I can't confirm about the black pickguard but check the reg.

Headstock, machines, bullet truss rod, stripe on back of neck and 3-bolt backplate all look good.

Played a few of these myself.

And it should be heavy. Good price, you would pay that figure or more in £(GBP) over here in UK!

That's just it, i read on that website that a strat can have a legit 79 neck, body, tuners etc, but still contain 1980 pups or caps. I dont know if that website is wrong if that is just the way fender built back then, using parts from one year and then new ones in other spots. To a guy wanting a 79 strat if i give him on with 80 pups/caps he wont buy it when i decide to sell. I am a heavy trader so i dont wanna set myself up for failure.

[Kenny V]

Check out this web site, www.strat-central.com/70sstrats/ You could also post on the Fender Forum. There are members there who know Fenders as well as some of our members know Gibsons.

[surfpup]

According to the guitar dater the serial number (looks like S920973) returns this...

 

Your guitar was made at the

Fullerton Plant (Fender - CBS Era), USA

in the Year(s): 1978 - 1981

 

Looks like it's on the cusp. You could check the pot codes too. But the pots could always be older stick than the pickups.

[stein]

Unfortunately, I don't think there is any way to tell short of taking the whole thing apart. And even then, you might be right at 79/80.

 

But I would say this: I don't know that the exact year matters between 79 or 80. But probably what might matter is what pickups it had. I can see that as effecting the value more than when the exact date it was built.

 

Either way, you are going to have to lift the PG if it matters to you.

 

Personally, I would think that what pups it had, what features/parts it had, and how "nice" it is will affect the value than what particular year it left the factory.

[brc]

Without taking the neck off to check the date code on the end of the neck, it would be difficult to say for sure.

I have a 77 Strat and a 73 Strat. The three bolt neck was introduced in the early 70s and continued until 1981

He us at the mid to high end of what the guitar is worth due to the condition, clear coar flaking off and the original case has some issues, stickers and lining is loose.

I love my Strats, and would like another one, even though I don't play any more.

See if he will,let you remove the neck and the pick guard to verify the date code.

[LarryUK]

Dating a 1979 strat?

Well. I'd buy it some flowers first. Then oil it's neck and fiddle with it's knobs. If all goes well, on the second date, shove that jack in and give it a seeing to.

[rct]

So ive spotted an 1979 strat on CL, nice git and agreed to buy it monday assuming its original. Not mint by any means, some dings here and there, paint peeling, frets worn down quite a bit, but its still a 70s strat which to me is whats all that matters. The thing is i have zero experience dating vintage gear so i was wondering if you guys could help me a little? Is this webpage correct that if the pickguard is silver underneath it is a 1980? From what im reading Fender didnt use new parts every year, you might get 70s neck/body but get 1980 pups or get 70s/neck body and 1980 caps.

 

While it doesnt bother me much if a knob or screw was replaced from what i was told, if the pickups are 1980, its not considered a 79 which makes a huge difference to new buyers. I tend to trade a lot so i really want to make sure the git is a 79. So is this website correct that a black pickguard underneath is the biggest sign of 70s? http://www.strat-central.com/70sstrats/

 

Here is the git i will be purchasing monday nite if he lets me lift the pickguard. http://providence.craigslist.org/msg/5218946470.html

 

Anyone with some insight please chime in.

 

The pickguard and any other part won't tell you much but narrow it down. Slack the strings and pull the neck off and look at the date, assuming it is readable. That'll be the day they screwed the neck on.

 

Buying based on some potential re-sale or trade is not good, always be ready to lose when you let it go. 79 or 80 isn't going to make any difference, there just wasn't that much difference from easily 77, 78 on up to 83 or so.

 

Too much money if you ask me, but I had a few of those guitars. I'd put 1100 on a new one. Good luck with it. Look for opaqueness of the clear coat, look for whitish finish. That's moisture, them guitars did that, it isn't fun and it doesn't sell if that is your motivation.

 

rct

[stein]

The pickguard and any other part won't tell you much but narrow it down. Slack the strings and pull the neck off and look at the date, assuming it is readable. That'll be the day they screwed the neck on.

 

Buying based on some potential re-sale or trade is not good, always be ready to lose when you let it go. 79 or 80 isn't going to make any difference, there just wasn't that much difference from easily 77, 78 on up to 83 or so.

 

Too much money if you ask me, but I had a few of those guitars. I'd put 1100 on a new one. Good luck with it. Look for opaqueness of the clear coat, look for whitish finish. That's moisture, them guitars did that, it isn't fun and it doesn't sell if that is your motivation.

 

rct

Well sir, I mostly agree.

 

I will say, I ain't that hip on the 70's/80's Fender resale value. I find it hard to imagine late 70's being worth anything as far as "collector" value, but apparently, a younger generation might be seeing these as old.

 

Also, hard to imagine a resale value different between '79 and '80. Or '81' Most "in the know" know that there is virtually no difference when it comes to that particular date.

 

Looking forward, as in WAY forward, I could see a situation where the early 80's Fenders would have some interest, as that is a transitional period from CBS to FMI. And the period you mention, '77 to '79 or so, that was maybe the most unchanged and boring time for Fender. Come to think of it, maybe they might become collectable in the sense that they are the worst possible genuine Fender to be had. (Although, I could see that changing...if things continue they way they are now).

[ksdaddy]

Just playing the odds and sharing my own personal experience....you're more likely to find screwy dates on those made after 1982. It seems like they went through a period where they were cleaning out old stock out of the warehouse. Cases in point:

 

My Precision Bass has 1981 electronics, the color (pewter) came out in the fall of 1982, the neck is dated January 1983 but it has a 1979 (S9) serial number on the headstock.

 

My 1983 Strat has a 1982 (E2) serial number on the headstock with the large (70s) logo but on a small headstock, 4 bolt neck, 1983 neck date and 1979 electronics. In addition, it has all black plastic...they switched to white in 1981.

 

My 1987 Strat is extremely early Corona production (neck dated Feb 87) with a 1983 (E3) serial number, GLOSS finish on the neck, and the tremolo studs screw directly into the body instead of into threaded inserts.

 

That last one was a stretch but it shows they did do some weird stuff and were known to use up old stock.

 

HOWEVER I have yet to find much weirdness prior to 1980 or so. The guitar you're showing clearly has a 1979 serial number, which isn't the gospel but it gets it very close. I would be surprised if you found 1980 dates anywhere. One thing to remember is that they didn't date the ends of the neck 'normal' during that time, from some time in 1973 to around 1980 or 81 they had an 8 digit number (2 sets of 4) and if you DO access it, make note of it. It IS a date stamp but it takes some deciphering and I don't recall off the top of my head how intuitive it is.

 

Here's my '83 hard tail:

 

[surfpup]

Looking forward, as in WAY forward, I could see a situation where the early 80's Fenders would have some interest, as that is a transitional period from CBS to FMI. And the period you mention, '77 to '79 or so, that was maybe the most unchanged and boring time for Fender. Come to think of it, maybe they might become collectable in the sense that they are the worst possible genuine Fender to be had. (Although, I could see that changing...if things continue they way they are now).

 

Which is pretty funny, considering I can easily remember when anything CBS was worth zilch!

[ksdaddy]

Which is pretty funny, considering I can easily remember when anything CBS was worth zilch!

 

I've got (I think) nine instruments on consignment at the local shop, all variations of a Strat, none priced over $99. Excellent workmanship for that price range, pick one up and gig tonight. Can't GIVE them away.

 

When I had my store in the 80s I could have sold them for $99 all day long (in 1985 dollars, too!) Kids would have been lining up to get them.

 

At the same time, I threw away at least a half dozen 60s Teisco pieces of _____. They were so bad even I, the consummate bottom feeder luthier, wouldn't bother fixing them. Now Teiscos are collectable. I have a JUNK one on ebay right now and I bet it will bring close to $100. Makes no sense.

 

So as to the "CBS Fenders suck" argument, I place that in the same trash bin as the Gibson/Norlin and Gretsch/Booneville argument. Even if someone can rationalize WHY something isn't worth fifty cents, just wait around. It'll become valuable.

 

I remember Elderly Instruments selling off Gibson Corvuses brand new for $161. Now add a 'one' to the front of that price. It's the same guitar, it's just cool...now.

[skilsaw]

Dating a 1979 strat?

Well. I'd buy it some flowers first. Then oil it's neck and fiddle with it's knobs. If all goes well, on the second date, shove that jack in and give it a seeing to.

 

 

Wear protection when you shove that jack in.

You never know who has played it before you.

['Scales]

GA, I looked into this stuff a lot when choosing guitars a few years back. Here's my honest take on it:

- if the serial number is for a '79 then you are entitled to call it that regardless of when it was put together

- many 79s were not put together in 79. Sales were pretty weak and they shifted them over say 3-4 years, only one of which was 79

- a good many potential purchasers will know this, and its often factored into price - 79's (should) cost less

- if you want to be (more) sure you are getting a 70's built strat, go for one coded 78 or better still 77

- I think in time the 70's strats will become more valuable (its starting to happen) but that the 'white' models of the early 70's will do better

 

good or bad? who's to judge - how does it play?

I don't think you'll do your money - these will at least hold value and likely rise ahead of inflation. Then again no one retires young because their 79 strat went up by a grand or two over a decade - unless you buy a coupla hundred of em.

 

Personally, if I really wanted a 70's strat as cheap as possile, I'd save the money and add a bit to the pot each pay until a 78 came along for not much more.

 

good luck man.

[stein]

 

HOWEVER I have yet to find much weirdness prior to 1980 or so. The guitar you're showing clearly has a 1979 serial number, which isn't the gospel but it gets it very close. I would be surprised if you found 1980 dates anywhere.

That's a real good post with lots of good info, just this part isn't true.

 

The "S9" seriel number found on the headstock is extremely common for other years besides '79. I don't remember which particular years, but '80 is for sure as likely to have a "S9" as not.

 

What I mean is, if you have a Strat with "S9" on the headstock, it really means a 3 year period, and particularly just as likely to be an '80 as a '79.

[rct]

That's a real good post with lots of good info, just this part isn't true.

 

The "S9" seriel number found on the headstock is extremely common for other years besides '79. I don't remember which particular years, but '80 is for sure as likely to have a "S9" as not.

 

What I mean is, if you have a Strat with "S9" on the headstock, it really means a 3 year period, and particularly just as likely to be an '80 as a '79.

 

With the difference being one is a junky 70s strat and one is a junky 80s strat. There is nothing wrong with them, I loved all of my junky 70s and 80s Fenders, but there is nothing tremendous about them either, certainly not 1100++ dollars worth. New ones cost that much, are made better, and smell better.

 

rct

[stein]

Just playing the odds and sharing my own personal experience....you're more likely to find screwy dates on those made after 1982. I

HOWEVER I have yet to find much weirdness prior to 1980 or so.

Personally, I find the period from '80 to '85 or so to be one of the more interesting.

 

LOTS of different stuff tried during that time, besides just the "using up stock", which they did. Not to mention, the change of management, change of ownership, and the change in manufacturing techniques. And all of these were quite drastic in such a short time.

 

And yea, in contrast to, say, the '77 to '79 period (give or take), in which nothing seemed to change or happen.

[Gibson Artist]

Dating a 1979 strat?

Well. I'd buy it some flowers first. Then oil it's neck and fiddle with it's knobs. If all goes well, on the second date, shove that jack in and give it a seeing to.

Well, its a rhode island strat, they arent that fussy. Now if it were a Conn Strat well, the girls over there you gotta buy em coffee before you can touch their frets.

[Gibson Artist]

Personally, I find the period from '80 to '85 or so to be one of the more interesting.

 

LOTS of different stuff tried during that time, besides just the "using up stock", which they did. Not to mention, the change of management, change of ownership, and the change in manufacturing techniques. And all of these were quite drastic in such a short time.

 

And yea, in contrast to, say, the '77 to '79 period (give or take), in which nothing seemed to change or happen.

The vintage nuts want 70s more, yet ive heard that the 80s had better quality, especially around the dan smith era.

[Gibson Artist]

Just playing the odds and sharing my own personal experience....you're more likely to find screwy dates on those made after 1982. It seems like they went through a period where they were cleaning out old stock out of the warehouse. Cases in point:

 

My Precision Bass has 1981 electronics, the color (pewter) came out in the fall of 1982, the neck is dated January 1983 but it has a 1979 (S9) serial number on the headstock.

 

My 1983 Strat has a 1982 (E2) serial number on the headstock with the large (70s) logo but on a small headstock, 4 bolt neck, 1983 neck date and 1979 electronics. In addition, it has all black plastic...they switched to white in 1981.

 

My 1987 Strat is extremely early Corona production (neck dated Feb 87) with a 1983 (E3) serial number, GLOSS finish on the neck, and the tremolo studs screw directly into the body instead of into threaded inserts.

 

That last one was a stretch but it shows they did do some weird stuff and were known to use up old stock.

 

HOWEVER I have yet to find much weirdness prior to 1980 or so. The guitar you're showing clearly has a 1979 serial number, which isn't the gospel but it gets it very close. I would be surprised if you found 1980 dates anywhere. One thing to remember is that they didn't date the ends of the neck 'normal' during that time, from some time in 1973 to around 1980 or 81 they had an 8 digit number (2 sets of 4) and if you DO access it, make note of it. It IS a date stamp but it takes some deciphering and I don't recall off the top of my head how intuitive it is.

 

Here's my '83 hard tail:

 

thanks for all your info, love yours too.

[stein]

GA, I looked into this stuff a lot when choosing guitars a few years back. Here's my honest take on it:

- if the serial number is for a '79 then you are entitled to call it that regardless of when it was put together

- many 79s were not put together in 79. Sales were pretty weak and they shifted them over say 3-4 years, only one of which was 79

- a good many potential purchasers will know this, and its often factored into price - 79's (should) cost less

- if you want to be (more) sure you are getting a 70's built strat, go for one coded 78 or better still 77

- I think in time the 70's strats will become more valuable (its starting to happen) but that the 'white' models of the early 70's will do better

 

good or bad? who's to judge - how does it play?

I don't think you'll do your money - these will at least hold value and likely rise ahead of inflation. Then again no one retires young because their 79 strat went up by a grand or two over a decade - unless you buy a coupla hundred of em.

 

Personally, if I really wanted a 70's strat as cheap as possile, I'd save the money and add a bit to the pot each pay until a 78 came along for not much more.

 

good luck man.

 

 

The vintage nuts want 70s more, yet ive heard that the 80s had better quality, especially around the dan smith era.

I think you are putting too much emphasis on "70's" or "80's" regarding this one.

 

Things don't change, and the value of the guitar doesn't change, because it was built either Dec of '79 or Jan of '80.

 

When you say "vintage nuts" wanting 70's as opposed to 80's, that could mean early 70's or mid 70's, or late 70's. There ARE differences, and particularly, a '79 is going to be closer in value and desirability to and '80 than say, a '75.

 

As said above, most will know this. Especially "70's vintage nuts". (However, most DON'T consider 70's 'vintage' as in the definition applied to 'vintage guitars').

 

You are the only one I know of who has said that a Strat is going to have a different resale value based on it being a '79 or an '80.