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I s my Gibson ES-135 2002 blueburst Fake?


cistec

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Can naybody tell me if there is a sure fire way of telling if my ES135 is a fake? before you say visit the Gibson page on fakes...done it ..a little help! there..search the web ...some good help there! ...all seems ok but when I got it it had cheap asian pickups, pickguard was not 5 ply and the pick guard bracket was thin tin..the wiring inside was a total mess..amature soldering..and the case was nice but not a gibson, but this is the funny thing after checking the fake areas where people say we should look they seem fine. So why would anybody change 57 Humbuckers for crap!

 

I am wondering is this avery good fake..the Gibson label inside the guitar f hole is Offwhitish when I thought it was Creamy-orange all the words on the label look Ok ..but how do I know? the holes where the pickups go looks like cheap bals wood with frayed bit of wood...is this normal?

 

CHECKED

Gibson checked serial but that just means there was one built on a certain day on a certain month in a ceratin year

Headstock pitch with made in USA etched on back looked OK

serial on heasdstock looked OK

Trussrod cover looked OK

Decal looked OK

 

So is there a sure fire way to alliviate my proble guys?

 

cistec

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Pictures would help. The top is laminated and easy to tear up if someone replaced the pickups or didn't take care of the guitar. The '57 classics are worth some money, so people often replace them with cheap pups and then sell the originals. There is no reason to change out the pickguard or bracket. The wiring is easy to screw up if the guy that changed the pups wasn't careful. I haven't seen too many fakes, other than LPs. Post some pics and we'll try to help. There are more 135 players on this forum, than there are on MLP. Good luck.

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Can naybody tell me if there is a sure fire way of telling if my ES135 is a fake? before you say visit the Gibson page on fakes...done it ..a little help! there..search the web ...some good help there! ...all seems ok but when I got it it had cheap asian pickups' date=' pickguard was not 5 ply and the pick guard bracket was thin tin..the wiring inside was a total mess..amature soldering..and the case was nice but not a gibson, but this is the funny thing after checking the fake areas where people say we should look they seem fine. So why would anybody change 57 Humbuckers for crap!

 

I am wondering is this avery good fake..the Gibson label inside the guitar f hole is Offwhitish when I thought it was Creamy-orange all the words on the label look Ok ..but how do I know? the holes where the pickups go looks like cheap bals wood with frayed bit of wood...is this normal?[/quote']

 

It sounds to me like an ES135 with cheap pickups swapped in. Why swap in cheap pickups? Because somebody had a guitar they liked more than the 135 that they thought would work better with '57 Classics. People do dumb stuff like this - particularly the young or foolish. #-o

 

I haven't pulled apart a 135 but I understand that they do have a balsa (chromite) centre block which fits with what you found.

 

I don't think it's a fake because it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to go to the trouble of copying an archtop, which is more work than a solid, and particularly one that is not a popular model.

 

Four options come to mind for going forward:

 

[*] forget that you noticed the pickups were not original and get on with playing it. Presumably you liked the tone when you bought it

 

[*] if the guitar was warranted by the seller as in original condition, you might be able to get your money back under consumer law because of the cheapo pickups. The ease with which you can do this will depend on the seller.

 

[*] if you like the guitar, it is in otherwise good condition, you would like to hold onto it and the cheapo pickups gnaw at you, this is a great opportunity to put in some humbuckers that are right for you. You can stick with Gibsons or go for a boutique brand - there is no shortage of great humbuckers. A luthier can advise you on the condition of the guitar and then if you decide to go ahead, install the new pickups and clean up the wiring without difficulty. And I am sure that it would not be too hard to track down a replacement pickguard.

 

[*] sell it

 

 

RN

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Hi cistec,

 

Just out of interest, the serial number wouldn't be 00382718 would it?

 

If so, I can tell you a story!!! I'm in Melbourne. I owned this guitar and it buzzed incessantly and after a protracted battle with the importer which in the end was settled by Gibson USA after posting the issue on these forums and Gibson USA swapped it out for a 137C, Blueburst also. It was this guitar that inspired my forum name.

 

Anyway, if it's this guitar, then possibly the importer ended up stripping it for parts and sold the rest as a "project piece."

 

As far as the pickup holes looking like balsa with frayed edges, absolutely. Gibson call it chromyte, the man in the street calls it balsa. No effect on tone though, absolutely stunning tone, the 137 is a different beast altogether. I loved mine, I just couldn't live with the buzz!!! The only way you could stop it was by using 12 gauge strings or higher. Nerve damage in one of my fingers restricts me to 9's, 10's at best.

 

So, it's a longshot, but may possibly be the answer to why all the good stuff including the case is gone. The other noticeable feature of my former 135 is the off-centre burst on the back of the neck.

 

All the best

 

Martin

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Thanks to all of you for your imput ...I was going to post images but it looks like it is a gibson from what you say, and I agree with you Robin why copy? makes sense.... what does not make sense is cheap $50 china made pups in a $1500 guitar and pick guard none original with crappy tin bracket holding it on. OH! and the serial is not yours Bluesburst ..relief!

 

I have ordered 57" classic and Plus Neck & Bridge & full rewire kit from USA and I am going to try to to do it my self ..do you know of a good video on rewiring a Hollow body from start to finish I have no problem stripping down and puttimg together just a little short on eletrical knowledge. I can get Les Paul rewire videos but they are different wiring diagrams.

 

Also before I forget there is a thin wire in the bridge pickup cavity coming through the Balsa wood ..is that the ground from the tailpeiece which goes to the bridge for grounding? Maybe I should post some images so other can check their 135's. Just one problem ..HOW DO I POST UP IMAGES FOR YOU TO SEE?

 

Cistec

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Hey just so that we are all on the same page:

 

1) If your 135 has a trapeze tail piece, then it has a chromyte center block

2) If your 135 has a stop tail, then it has a mahogany center block

3) Any replacement parts you need can be ordered from www.allparts.com, www.sweetwater.com or directly from Gibson (I've dealt with allparts and sweetwater and their support is great)

4) Wiring diagrams and stuff can be found via Google, lots of sites

5) The loose wire that you see inside is the ground wire from the bridge.

6) My 135 is wired exactly like a Les Paul

7) Gibson customer service is very good and may be able to assist with diagrams, etc.

 

Good luck

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As I said in my previous post ..how do I upload images for you to see?

 

I have checked the serial with Gibson and they said is a legal number.. Day-Date-year ..all ok! but that only confirms that a guitar was built on them dates and with that serial the rest you ahve to check your self. It has a genuine bigsby on and it looks like it was pro installed

I have been told that I really should have asked a lot more questions..They are right I am afraid to say..sigh!!! when will I learn!!!

When you see a seller with 100% feedback and 234 sales you assume honesty..or maybe he did not know?

 

Anyway its done! and I have stripped it down to body only. Now this thin wire coming out of the balsa wood is it attached to the tailpeice screw or where? and do I solder to bridge pickup and should it be sheilded? surely Somewhere on this planet is a Video/DVD/other that will take a step by step on how to replace wiring and pots and pickup in a 135 or simular and explain the reason of why/where.

 

Anyway if somebody can comeback and tell me how to postup images you can have a look.

 

Thanks guys

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to post a pic you first must host it somewhere else such as photobucket. the photobucket image will have a box below it with 4 URLs. select the one it says is for message forums. copy and paste that into the text of your message it should have [ i m g ] [ / i m g ] around the link (but without the spaces between the letters). so it woulde read: [ i m g ] photobucketaddress [ / i m g ] (again, it really wouldn't have the extra spaces)

 

we won't see the code and the link... just the pics. get us plenty. both sides of headstock serial number, all of that good stuff.

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As I said in my previous post ..how do I upload images for you to see?

....

 

surely Somewhere on this planet is a Video/DVD/other that will take a step by step on how to replace wiring and pots and pickup in a 135 or simular and explain the reason of why/where.

 

Anyway if somebody can comeback and tell me how to postup images you can have a look.

 

Thanks guys

 

Re photos' date=' look at:

 

http://forums.gibson.com/Default.aspx?g=posts&t=11276

 

Re wiring an archtop, there are two aspects:

 

[*'] the circuitry, and

[*] the physical tricks required when you are working through the f-holes.

 

I would imagine that the circuit will be the same as that for a regular Les Paul Standard, ES335, SG Standard -get the idea? Info will probably come with the wiring kit or failing that, Google will turn something up.

 

The tricks are a different matter and to the best of my knowledge involve wiring up the circuit outboard and then installing it using straightened out clothes hangers and bits of string.

 

Maybe this is the business?

 

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Video,_DVD/Guitar_electronics/How_to_Wire_a_Gibson_Guitar_DVD.html

 

RN

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FWIW- Lots of asian stuff here: the Bridge , the china Grover tuners are wrong.

 

And All the electronics are from a china clone.

The Pick guard is pathetic.

 

 

The Pot locations look correct

The F holes seem a bit off - could be due to camera angle.

 

Frankly the whole guitar seems very suspect.

 

as you say - it seems all original hardware was stripped away and replaced with cheap stuff.

 

Heres some real ones:

333-GibsonES175blue.jpg

 

135_1.jpg

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"guarantee" it? i wouldn't go that far. nothing makes sense here. i'm not sure why they changed the parts. the only reason i can think of is so they could sell the guitar for full price and then sell the parts for full price.

can you give us a straight on shot of the truss rod cover? it looks funny in that pic. the gibson logo also is very crooked. that worries me. if it's a copy, it's a good one. if it's real, it's not so hot. it seems to fall somewhere in between. (of course, having it in my hands would make this all easier). and don't worry about the skinny bare wire. that's just the ground to the bridge.

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I really do hope somebody can tell me if this is a very good fake or the original hardware has been stripped and replaced with cheap crap. Also do sellers have to declare non original hardware like pups/All wiring/bridge saddles/tuners/paint touch up job under pick guard ..ect because in the ebay add it said after market Humbuckers ( SAR model made in china) ..thinking they would have upgraded to better ones than the 57" pair.

 

This is the original add quote:

 

"This is a Gibson ES 135 2002 model made USA. It is in excellent condition and comes with case. No issues with this guitar, good straight neck, low action, plays and sounds great. Has after market humbuckers, not sure of brand (has deep rich sound). One of the f holes has been blocked off to stop feedback. A nice looking and sounding guitar.

 

end quote:

 

sounded Ok for me, and it settled on a good auction price so I bid!

 

 

bridge.jpg

neckPitch.jpg

H-Sangle.jpg

LabelFHole.jpg

Trussnut2.jpg

Trussnut.jpg

 

 

I hope somebody can tell me original or fake and what would you do in my position? would you jump up and down about the hardware or would you be just relived that it is a Gibson..what a sorry state is this..I always thought getting a gibson was a loverly experience..BANG! thats been shot down!

 

cistec

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"guarantee" it? i wouldn't go that far. nothing makes sense here. i'm not sure why they changed the parts. the only reason i can think of is so they could sell the guitar for full price and then sell the parts for full price.

can you give us a straight on shot of the truss rod cover? it looks funny in that pic. the gibson logo also is very crooked. that worries me. if it's a copy' date=' it's a good one. if it's real, it's not so hot. it seems to fall somewhere in between. (of course, having it in my hands would make this all easier). and don't worry about the skinny bare wire. that's just the ground to the bridge.[/quote']

 

From the pictures it looks like a real Gibby, it sucks that all of the real Gibby parts were removed and replaced with crap. You should be able to buy new, replacement parts and make it nice, but it sucks that you have to. The seller should be flagged on ebay as a thief or an idiot. I would leave carefully worded, easily backed up comments reflecting what he did too you.

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Also do sellers have to declare non original hardware like pups/All wiring/bridge saddles/tuners/paint touch up job under pick guard ..ect because in the ebay add it said after market Humbuckers ( SAR model made in china) ..thinking they would have upgraded to better ones than the 57" pair.

 

No. At least the seller said they were aftermarket pickups. If they were upgrades' date=' I would expect that the seller would have said more about them.

 

This is the original add quote:

 

"This is a Gibson ES 135 2002 model made USA. It is in excellent condition and comes with case. No issues with this guitar, good straight neck, low action, plays and sounds great. Has after market humbuckers, not sure of brand (has deep rich sound). One of the f holes has been blocked off to stop feedback. A nice looking and sounding guitar.

 

end quote:

 

......

 

I hope somebody can tell me original or fake and what would you do in my position? would you jump up and down about the hardware or would you be just relived that it is a Gibson..what a sorry state is this

 

Looking at the pictures, I would say that the guitar is not in excellent condition and does have issues - albeit cosmetic from what I can see. Aside from the messy rewiring, there are the multiple holes for the pickguard surrounds, the two holes under the pickguard, the dodgy pickguard bracket etc.

 

To get a refund, you need to show that the item is not fit or suitable for purpose. In this case, you could argue that the seller has misrepresented the condition of the instrument and that had you known about the defects, you would not have bought it. On the other hand, you have now had it apart so the seller could argue that the item is no longer as purchased and you will have a much harder time getting a remedy.

 

My next step would be to get it to a luthier to have its condition confirmed. If the seller has also misrepresented the quality of neck and there are issues there as well, you should try your luck with a refund. If it is okay, the luthier can also quote on cleaning it up - and I would also have the luthier wire it up and set it up etc so you know it's been done right.

 

..I always thought getting a gibson was a loverly experience..BANG! thats been shot down!

 

It can be but it's not always smooth sailing - even buying over the counter. Some Gibsons just need a lot of love. In this case you also had to contend with the Ebay factor. As the anti-Ebay ad says, "There's a reason that it's cheap."

 

Good luck.

 

If you are in Sydney, I can help you with luthiers.

 

RN

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Thanks for the offer Robin but my Gibson tech has seen it now and was very disapointed in the the way this guitar was sold..what he did say was

"I was entitiled to expect a fair and reasonable product as close to the original as possible ...the pickup were explained in the add but they never worked when you got the item which is a issue on its own and since you have looked much closer at the item you have found that the majority of parts are replacements & inferiour parts and that the repair work carried out on the guitar which was obvious due to the misaligned drill holes in the body and misaligned drill holes in the side where the handmade pickguard bracket was placed. This Guitar when put up for sale should have mentioned all these issues because how can you see holes under a pickguard and bracket ...only when a genuine seller will disclose it..there are some cases where they just move stock on..but that does not obsolve them of their duty.

 

Having said the above a refund should be fair of about 60% of cost for new parts to replace inferior ones...The holes are there forever and apart from dowels or filler and touch up I would live with it ...The only down fall is to declare them once you sell the guitar in which case you will lose some money..All this has to be taken into consideration before you decide what to do.

 

My advice is seek a refund and because the seller has 100% feedback it is your only weapon NEGATIVE FEED BACK! you can also inform Ebay and because you paid by Paypal they might help also..45 days to wait though! all in all not a very nice experience.

 

And in regards to people changing genuine parts for seconds .some people do this for the simple fact some people dont check these things and

get away with it..which is why you should ASK ALL QUESTIONS BEFORE HAND! never the less ..a very deceptive add and seller, regardless of ignorance of items. end quote!!

 

Well there you have it! Also the tuners should have been Keystone Grover shape but they are Romantic shape maybe Gibson changed shapes he does not know.

 

I dont hold out much hope fro a refund but the fact I can leave very negative feedback will help my healing period..but I still got to prove my Guitar is Gibson..I have sent loads of images to the Gibson guys and they said they would get their gurus who know fakes well to look at thje images closely ..keep my fingers crossed.

 

cistec

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If you are going to seek a refund, make sure you check out the Ebay website for the roadmap.

 

I expect you will find that the sequence is:

 

[*] explain the situation to the seller in writing (sticking to the facts) and try to work something out

[*] if that doesn't work, raise a dispute in Ebay/Paypal and if they arbitrate in your favour, they will chase up the seller (takes a good 2-3 months)

 

Make sure you keep a diary and all correspondence, and confirm any agreements or undertakings in writing.

 

Only leave feedback once the process is completed.

 

By the way, did you ask the tech about playability - condition of the neck etc?

 

R

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Thank Robin but I have a tech guy but he is on Holiday at the moment..

 

So let me get this right. If somebody sells a guitar and only mentions that the pickups have been changed but in reality they have changed the

originals for copies they can get away with it..and the fact now they are offering $100 to get rid of me. I worked it out that if I wanted to sell or play without pickguard on I would have to repair areas and replace parts to original ones ..cost to me would be around $500 (see below list to fix)

 

LIST TO FIX

*wiring

* Pots

* Pickguard and bracket

* Tuners ( should be Keystone Grovers)

* Bad Paint job under pick guard

* Broken pickup

* multiple holes in guitar through bad alignment (need fillingand touch up to good standard)

 

either way I am on a loser here...sigh!!

 

cistec

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