kidblast Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I had a Yamaha G100 (100w 2x12) solid state amp that I gigged heavily with for 20 years. I have lots of recordings done with that amp, tone was never a problem. A great sounding amp and it was a work horse, I never had a single problem with it. I sold it when I bought my Marshall, looking back now, I should have kept it just to have it around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I do think that modelling amps have come a long way though since they started... I once hade a Line 6 Spider modelling amp... Man I hated that thing so much... It sounded so good in the shop then I got it home and found out that out of all the settings only two of them sounded any good and the worst thing was that the clean channel was never clean.. it just didn't sound good in any way.... Todays modelling amps sound much better.. but you still cant beat a nice sparkly creamy tube amp :) (I think anyway) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Rabs: Todays modelling amps sound much better.. but you still cant beat a nice sparkly creamy tube amp :) (I think anyway) You're absolutely right. But there are some days I prefer my Cube 80XL and some days my Mesa Express 5:50, just depends on what I'm playing and how I'm hearing it. But if I had to have just one, it'd be the Mesa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I once hade a Line 6 Spider modelling amp.. Ergo, your particular problem. Those are the low end of the spectrum. and line 6, even tho they were one of the pioneers, they have dropped off the top of the curve IMO. I've done a few gigs with the 2x12 150watt Mustang IV, and just about each time, Ive had players who were in the audience inquire what I was using, It looks like a 2x12 deville, but they can see I had no pedal board. "how do you get a Deville to sound like that??" "It's not a deville." the responses are always the same "Wow, I thought those were toys..." as I've said before, these modelers are not for everyone but I think some people just write them off as soon as they know they are digital amps. but if you take some time, you'll eventually see that they do have their place. you can't just turn them on and go out of the box. you HAVE to set them up for what you want to do. At the end of the day, it's really not my place to preach, I could care less if anyone here thinks they suck, really. I have two, I use em all the time, they wont replace my tube amps, but they are a blast to use and very easy to move around and setup. you can get a lot of sounds out of them. I wouldn't own two of these if they sounded like a$$.. Viva la difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I once hade a Line 6 Spider modelling amp.. Ergo, your particular problem. Those are the low end of the spectrum. and line 6, even tho they were one of the pioneers, they have dropped off the top of the curve IMO. Yes that was my point.. I got that amp like in the late 90s or some point around then... and cos they were one of the first it was awful.. I remember the same with the multi effect pedals of the time... they were terrible at first... But its all come a long long way since then... And me personally, I only got my first tube amp about one and a half years ago :)... and I only really cared about getting that cos I wanted a nice amp to demo my guitars on.... I have no problem with digital amps... as you say though you need to set them up properly to do the job you want... I still do think though theres a certain sparkle and creaminess you get with a tube amp that you don't quite get on modelling amps.. And that's not the be all and end all at all... But I do think theres a difference (which only us guitar nerds care about or even notice :)) Its like the difference between a CD and a Vinyl record, theres a certain warmth on a record player, makes the sound softer. Analogue vs Digital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I've got a zoom modeling and multi effect thingy. 707 something or other. I haven't even seen it in years but it is very good and that was cheap. I also rate Roland Cubes and the post recording effects on my Roland 24 track are very good. I like valve amps, there's no getting past it, I just feel like they're more touch responsive, whether that's a mental thing or something real. But... I have no issues with modelling or digital effects. I don't generally use them but I have and I've been happy with the results. I'm good with it all. There's still no point demoing anything audio related on YouTube. It's like the ads for TVs when they try to show me how good their screens are, on my bloody screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I still do think though theres a certain sparkle and creaminess you get with a tube amp that you don't quite get on modelling amps.. And that's not the be all and end all at all... But I do think theres a difference Rabs you are spot on there's an organic "kind" of thing with a tube amp that you will never get with a modeler. the thing about that tho.. if you're jamming with others, in a live setting, you don't really notice it's lacking. Side by side, quiet room? yep.. you'll hear that difference for sure, I am able to compartmentalize it tho, and take the benefits along with the warts, (that lil slash marshall you have does sound fantastic. I've considered one, then I realize,, I have like 6 or 7 guitar amps already... but hey,, whats one more?) I like valve amps, there's no getting past it, I just feel like they're more touch responsive, whether that's a mental thing or something real. there is, it's not a mental thing at all. it's even more so with a Class A tube amp verses A/B. But seems they've worked on that a bit, and some of the modelers are a bit more touch sensitive, (I think the Fenders tend to come the closest) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I still do think though theres a certain sparkle and creaminess you get with a tube amp that you don't quite get on modelling amps.. And that's not the be all and end all at all... But I do think theres a difference Rabs you are spot on there's an organic "kind" of thing with a tube amp that you will never get with a modeler. the thing about that tho.. if you're jamming with others, in a live setting, you don't really notice it's lacking. Side by side, quiet room? yep.. you'll hear that difference for sure, I am able to compartmentalize it tho, and take the benefits along with the warts, (that lil slash marshall you have does sound fantastic. I've considered one, then I realize,, I have like 6 or 7 guitar amps already... but hey,, whats one more?) There is a theory that because valve overdrive creates even order harmonics where as transistor overdrive creates odd order harmonics valve overdrive sounds better. We're kind of hard wired to find even order harmonics pleasing. My preference for valve amps includes clean sounds so I still prefer valves, even for clean but I accept entirely that might be psychological. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flight959 Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Unusually for me I guessed correctly.... I did think the fender was the worst! Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I still do think though theres a certain sparkle and creaminess you get with a tube amp that you don't quite get on modelling amps.. And that's not the be all and end all at all... But I do think theres a difference Side by side, quiet room? yep.. you'll hear that difference for sure, I am able to compartmentalize it tho, and take the benefits along with the warts, (that lil slash marshall you have does sound fantastic. I've considered one, then I realize,, I have like 6 or 7 guitar amps already... but hey,, whats one more?) Well thinking about it more this is my priority when it comes to pure sound and if it matters... Playing at home by myself: not at all, I really couldn't care less most of the time cos im just playing to play as long as it sounds ok, then whatever im not worried about the details.. Sometimes though it does matter cos I want to play with the harmonics and stuff and you want it to be responsive to your input, but then that's when effects are the most fun. Playing at a jam or gig: it matters somewhat that the tone at least matches whats playing around you, you don't want to ruin the overall sound.. but I don't think most people (again apart from us nerds) would be able to tell the difference (or care) between a tube or digital amp cos you have a whole band playing Playing while being recorded: It totally matters.. if im going to play on any kind of recording that's going to be listened to I want to sound my best, and I believe that's through a tube amp and mic'd up properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Had an interesting experience, just last evening, at a set up and sound check, for a charity "Jam"(mostly), this coming Saturday evening. 2 other players were using "solid state" amps, that were just not cutting it, sound/tone wise. The sound man suggested they plug their guitars "direct" into the PA. And, in so doing, had instant (much) better sound/tone. They were using pretty inexpensive, and older SS amps. I think one was an old "Crate," and the other might have been a Behringer, of some sort? Whatever they were, they just sounded much to "thin," and "tinny," no matter how they adjusted the amp. I was using my trusty Fender "Hot Rod Deluxe," and the only complaint anyone had, about it, was the volume, even on 2! LOL NOT the "tone!" So, I simply turned it toward the side of the stage, and all was right, and forgiven! So "good gear" (and placement) does make (some) difference, now and again. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 yea Rabs,, I agree.. when I am recording, I'm using my best sounding gear. for the amp, that is without a doubt, my marshall combo.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 yea man, it is,, but with out an amp, it will just go "plink,,, plink... plink..." Hey, Paul Kossoff was a one hell of a plinker! That Marshall stack was just a cardboard store display board... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Hey, Paul Kossoff was a one hell of a plinker! That Marshall stack was just a cardboard store display board... ;) Dam! I KNEW it!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pin Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I admit that when I listened I thought amp A was the best, closely followed by amp B and amp C I thought was rubbish. So I then considered the whole idea was to cause maximum embarrassment and that the tube must be amp C. So I chose C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 There is a theory that because valve overdrive creates even order harmonics where as transistor overdrive creates odd order harmonics valve overdrive sounds better. We're kind of hard wired to find even order harmonics pleasing. My preference for valve amps includes clean sounds so I still prefer valves, even for clean but I accept entirely that might be psychological. Any single-ended amp stage like most preamps mainly creates even-order harmonics, any push-pull stage like most poweramps exclusively odd-order ones, regardless of the active technology used. The very difference between valves/tubes and FETs compared to silicon BJTs is the higher level of higher-order harmonics caused by the latter. Germanium BJTs distort softer which makes "vintage" solid-state distortion boxes more desirable. Germanium is preferred for diode distortion, too. Your preference for valve amps in clean applications is not only psycholigical. Valves do "compress" short, overdriven peaks, in particular during attack, so elegantly that they are beyond perception in many cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share Posted November 12, 2015 Had an interesting experience, just last evening, at a set up and sound check, for a charity "Jam"(mostly), this coming Saturday evening. 2 other players were using "solid state" amps, that were just not cutting it, sound/tone wise. The sound man suggested they plug their guitars "direct" into the PA. And, in so doing, had instant (much) better sound/tone. I never tried it with a guitar but my brother always plugged his bass directly into the PA and it sounded great. Geddy Lee does this too. Listen to 3:13 of this. It sounds great! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE2WjSmUcRA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I never tried it with a guitar but my brother always plugged his bass directly into the PA and it sounded great. Geddy Lee does this too. Listen to 3:13 of this. It sounds great! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE2WjSmUcRA Yeah, I've seen a LOT of bass players, go direct. And, they sounded just fine!! I think, that our own Bob ("Notes") Norton, plays his guitar(s) through the PA, and probably via a guitar processor, for what "effects" he wants, or needs. IF...I'm remembering correctly? CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Yeah, I've seen a LOT of bass players, go direct. And, they sounded just fine!! I think, that our own Bob ("Notes") Norton, plays his guitar(s) through the PA, and probably via a guitar processor, for what "effects" he wants, or needs. IF...I'm remembering correctly? CB Theres also the cool clip where David Gilmour explains how the solo to Another Brick in The Wall was recorded. No amps.. Classic solo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Theres also the cool clip where David Gilmour explains how the solo to Another Brick in The Wall was recorded. No amps.. Classic solo. Yeah, thanks Rabs! I've seen this, before...but, had just forgotten, about it! Also, I think Roger McGuinn records that way, as well. Seems he said all the Byrds 12-string stuff was done via the console, and it's double compressors. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saturn Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Pretty sure Page recorded the outro solo in "Black Dog" direct into the board too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 There's still no point demoing anything audio related on YouTube. It's like the ads for TVs when they try to show me how good their screens are, on my bloody screen. And there it is. I am liking reading the discussions on this here thread, but as for the vid, what I try to say I just could not put better than this. Sometimes, Farns sir, you is a brilliant man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 C I thought was rubbish. I don't think it sounded like rubbish I can FIND you some examples of RUBBISH if you'd like to compare.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pin Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 C I thought was rubbish. I don't think it sounded like rubbish I can FIND you some examples of RUBBISH if you'd like to compare.. Well, ok maybe not that bad but clearly worse than the first two (IMO). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibsonKramer Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Prior to me getting back into playing, I worked with a guy, we constantly had the argument analog versus digital. I am an old weapon's system tech from the Navy. My gear was both analog (the fire control computer) and digital (radar). The amp that ran the whole deal, a 6' tall, 6 drawer cabinet of tubes. He was convinced, the new modeling could fool anyone. He finally brought in a CD of some of his stuff. It was really good, and I noted to him how correct I was. See how great those amps sound? Sounded like he had a pretty expensive setup and rigs (he was part-time musician, I assumed he had a bunch of gear). He offered to loan me, my favorite amp. The next day, he walks in with a red kidney bean. I took it home and it sat. I was intimidated by it, had no idea how to use it with my PC, etc. I returned it, and he'd occasionally share his digital recordings on CD. When I got back into playing, I had learned more about modeling, Line 6 and had heard some recordings from the early Flextones (the orginal POD in a good cab, with a quality Celestion). Right when I was out shopping, I ran into a very nice Flextone XL. Wish I still had it, was a great amp. It could emulate some awesome rigs, sounded big and bold. Extremely versatile, especially with the floorboard. But, something still wasn't right. I liked the Flextone enough to hang onto it, at the time... but started a journey, looking for a modeling amp, that sounded like the tube amps, I heard on all those digital recordings, on CD. I went through 13 amps, in about 6 months. I tried hybrid. I tried Vox, Blackstar, Fender... As I continued on this journey, I would remember the classes in school, on tubes. Then later troubleshooting them. Their characteristics. Their organic nature. The things digital electronics, can't and won't do. I finally thought about the fact, I had been listening to digital recordings, of digital amps... of course they could emulate a tube amp. But, no matter what, its still digital in the end... and no longer organic. No matter how much emulation is going on. So I bought a tube amp. Then I kept buying tube amps, and keeping them, whereas I had previously returned all the modeling amps. Show me a video, play me a sound clip. Psh... I can't tell you. But, sit me in front of an amp, hand me a guitar... and modeling, just can't and isn't there yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.