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Help a novice w/ an ID

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Hi. I recently inherited this Gibson amp, electric guitar, & original (at least my entire lifetime) case from my father. There are no serial numbers. My best guess is that it's from the early to mid-1950's, perhaps an ES 150??? No idea re the amp. Can anyone ID either for me? Any help much appreciated!post-75035-062278000 1447874828_thumb.jpgpost-75035-032974400 1447874842_thumb.jpgpost-75035-091613900 1447874858_thumb.jpgpost-75035-020437300 1447874883_thumb.jpgpost-75035-073944100 1447874896_thumb.jpg

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Hello and welcome....

 

Wow.. that's some real nice gear you have there [thumbup]

 

Went and looked the amp up.. Its a 1946 Gibson BR-4 Tube Amp... As for the guitar, im no expert on guitars like that but if you shine a light into the top F hole there may be a serial number in there on a label and if there is it may show the model name too. (but yes it looks like a 150 to my eyes). :)

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Hello and welcome....

 

Wow.. that's some real nice gear you have there [thumbup]

 

Went and looked the amp up.. Its a 1946 Gibson BR-4 Tube Amp... As for the guitar, im no expert on guitars like that but if you shine a light into the top F hole there may be a serial number in there on a label and if there is it may show the model name too. (but yes it looks like a 150 to my eyes). :)

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It's definitely a Gibson ES 150, but based on the headstock logo, it's from the vintage of 1946 to 1947.

 

 

Worth right around $2,400 USD.

 

:mellow:

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It's definitely a Gibson ES 150, but based on the headstock logo, it's from the vintage of 1946 to 1947.

 

 

Worth right around $2,400 USD.

 

:mellow:

 

wow, i need to come to Alabama to start getting use gear, because here in the north east, that would go for twice that much being in that condition.

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Thanks Old Guy and Sparquelito! That makes it older than I thought but would be in keeping with the 1946 amp. Like I said, my father had these as long as I can remember and I date to the late 50's. :) The guitar needs a little work -- I doubt that the electric components work any more (although he also had a new amp of some sort). Not sure if there's anyone in the midwest that does this kind of work so it may be a while. I really appreciate the ID, though, so thanks again!

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It's definitely a Gibson ES 150, but based on the headstock logo, it's from the vintage of 1946 to 1947.

 

 

Worth right around $2,400 USD.

 

:mellow:

 

Hold on a minute, and don't get your hopes too high.

 

Yes, the headstock logo is from the mid-'47 to early '48 period ('46 would have been a straight script logo), but..... I have never seen a 150 with split-parallelograms. The ES-150 had dots until about '52, and then trapezoids.

 

The fretboard markers and tailpiece point toward an L-7. There was an L-7 "electric" of the era, but with a "McCarty" pickup, not a single P-90. This looks like a modified L-7 to me.

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Thanks for the lead re the L-7. From the pics I can find on-line, it definitely has the split parallelogram inlays,the tortoise pick/finger guard, tailpiece, and gold inlay by the tuners of the L-7 but the two knobs and "bottom" jack of the ES 150. Guess IDing a Gibson is more complicated than I realized! :)

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Guess IDing a Gibson is more complicated than I realized! :)

You can say that again... :)

 

So many models over the years.. custom jobs, modded guitars, limited edition runs.. It becomes quite an art to spot these things.. But is fun [thumbup]

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Hold on a minute, and don't get your hopes too high.

 

Yes, the headstock logo is from the mid-'47 to early '48 period ('46 would have been a straight script logo), but..... I have never seen a 150 with split-parallelograms. The ES-150 had dots until about '52, and then trapezoids.

 

The fretboard markers and tailpiece point toward an L-7. There was an L-7 "electric" of the era, but with a "McCarty" pickup, not a single P-90. This looks like a modified L-7 to me.

 

 

Larry, that almost looks too "clean" to be a non-factory mod. Any chance this is one of the 1946 ES-300's with the P-90?

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Larry, that almost looks too "clean" to be a non-factory mod. Any chance this is one of the 1946 ES-300's with the P-90?

Good call... not that im an expert.. but a ES 300 seems to match (well going by google images anyway :)) [thumbup]

 

this is what shows.

original_zpsoo5wn4wi.jpg

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One thing I notice is that the finger rest (pickguard) is starting to outgas, and you're going to need to remove it before it damages the guitar. The two light-colored areas on the guard--where it attaches to the neck, and where the metal support rod attaches in the middle of the "fat" part of the guard--are deteriorating celluloid. It will only get worse.

 

I had exactly the same issue with my 1947 L-7. The finish on the side of the neck was damaged as a result. The deterioration starts where the small celluloid doubling blocks are glued on the underside of the pickguard.

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Larry, that almost looks too "clean" to be a non-factory mod. Any chance this is one of the 1946 ES-300's with the P-90?

 

BINGO, we have a winner. You've convinced me it's an ES-300, but I'll stick with '47/'48 from the headstock logo.

 

With the absence of the paper label with model/serial number, I believe you would be safe to call this guitar a 1947 ES-300.

 

Nick also has it right about the pickguard, here's what I used for a replacement on my old L-7:

https://www.allparts.com/PG-9817-043-Bound-Tortoise-L-5-Pickguard_p_2784.html

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Just seen someone selling this same year and model for $3,250 USD on Reverb.

 

Yes, $3000 seems to be ASKING price for these guitars. I have found zero ACTUAL sales comps.

 

The only thing I found was a "best offer accepted" on e-bay with an asking price of $2650. Probably changed hands around $2000.

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Just seen someone selling this same year and model for $3,250 USD on Reverb.com

I guess someone else will come along and quote a Blue Book "value".

 

 

I thought I explained this clearly above, but I'll try again.

 

What you're seeing Reverb is someone "trying" to sell a similar guitar for $3250, generally known as "asking price". Asking prices are of no use in determining "value", as they are, well, asking prices. You can ask whatever you like for anything you're trying to sell. That doesn't mean that's what it's worth, or if you'll get that price.

 

Value, or more specifically "market value", is determined by actual sales prices of "comparable" items. In the case of guitars this means similar or identical, mfg, model, year, condition, etc.

 

Since we're repeating ourselves here, I will again state:

 

The only comparable actual sales listing I found was a "best offer accepted" on e-bay for a similar guitar listed for $2650. "Best Offer Accepted" means it sold for for an undisclosed price of something LESS than $2650. Even at $2650, that is nearly 20% less than the Reverb asking price of $3250. 20% is a significant difference in "asking" vs "selling".

 

Of course, more than one "comp" would give an even clearer picture of the "market", but you have to use the "hard" statistics available.

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I guess someone else will come along and quote a Blue Book "value".

 

 

I thought I explained this clearly above, but I'll try again.

 

What you're seeing Reverb is someone "trying" to sell a similar guitar for $3250, generally known as "asking price". Asking prices are of no use in determining "value", as they are, well, asking prices. You can ask whatever you like for anything you're trying to sell. That doesn't mean that's what it's worth, or if you'll get that price.

 

Value, or more specifically "market value", is determined by actual sales prices of "comparable" items. In the case of guitars this means similar or identical, mfg, model, year, condition, etc.

 

Since we're repeating ourselves here, I will again state:

 

The only comparable actual sales listing I found was a "best offer accepted" on e-bay for a similar guitar listed for $2650. "Best Offer Accepted" means it sold for for an undisclosed price of something LESS than $2650. Even at $2650, that is nearly 20% less than the Reverb asking price of $3250. 20% is a significant difference in "asking" vs "selling".

 

Of course, more than one "comp" would give an even clearer picture of the "market", but you have to use the "hard" statistics available.

I fully agree with all the above, but I think there is a little more though.

 

"Asking" can be useful in that, if there are a number of them, one can tell it's worth NO MORE than what is asked. It would be kinda silly to expect it to be, if a guy can buy something easily at a certain price (range).

 

But you CORRECTLY state, that you need more than one or two in determining a real price.

 

Blue Book IS useful, as it does base things on completed sales, but what most people don't get is that buying something from a dealer is a different price than a private party. A dealer has a guitar on display and available to check out easily, where a private seller has the "inconvenience" of going to someones house on their schedule to check it out, or make the transaction. There SHOULD be a different price.

 

Online, that complicates things, as both dealers and private parties can both have the same thing, but one has more "services" than the other. And of corse, the matter of patience...a dealer might have something for weeks or months, knowing it will sell eventually, where often the average guy will wonder why it hasn't sold yet...or maybe needs the money.

 

So, I guess the point of all this, is when determining "VALUE", there is a difference between what you can expect to get when selling, and what you can expect to pay when buying.

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BINGO, we have a winner. You've convinced me it's an ES-300, but I'll stick with '47/'48 from the headstock logo.

 

With the absence of the paper label with model/serial number, I believe you would be safe to call this guitar a 1947 ES-300.

 

 

The headstock and headstock logo are identical to my 1947 L-7, which is pretty definitively dated to May/June of 1947 by the serial number. I've also looked at another L-7 from 1947 with a serial number only 100 or so after mine, which has the later block logo, so at least for some models with this body style, the script logo changed to the block logo sometime in late 1947.

 

As Larry says, you can pretty safely call this a 1947 ES 300.

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Thanks, guys! The pic posted by "rabs" of the ES 300 is identical except for the tail piece. Yeah, I know the pickguard has issues. It is actually lose from the guitar. I set it in place for photos but it is currently not attached. It had come unglued from the upper attachment point and appears to be missing a nut or some such from the side attachment. It's great to have a tentative date, model info, and ballpark value. The one promise I made to my father is that I'd never sell his Gibson. So, guess I'll need to learn how to play it once I get some minor repairs done. :) Unfortunately, only learned a few chords when I was a kid. I do love it, even though I'm not a player. It has a certain smell to it -- something about the case I suppose -- that is part of my childhood. Again, thanks to all you experts for the feedback.

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I guess someone else will come along and quote a Blue Book "value".

 

 

I thought I explained this clearly above, but I'll try again.

 

What you're seeing Reverb is someone "trying" to sell a similar guitar for $3250, generally known as "asking price". Asking prices are of no use in determining "value", as they are, well, asking prices. You can ask whatever you like for anything you're trying to sell. That doesn't mean that's what it's worth, or if you'll get that price.

 

Value, or more specifically "market value", is determined by actual sales prices of "comparable" items. In the case of guitars this means similar or identical, mfg, model, year, condition, etc.

 

Since we're repeating ourselves here, I will again state:

 

The only comparable actual sales listing I found was a "best offer accepted" on e-bay for a similar guitar listed for $2650. "Best Offer Accepted" means it sold for for an undisclosed price of something LESS than $2650. Even at $2650, that is nearly 20% less than the Reverb asking price of $3250. 20% is a significant difference in "asking" vs "selling".

 

Of course, more than one "comp" would give an even clearer picture of the "market", but you have to use the "hard" statistics available.

 

I was merely stating what someone was asking for it not making an appraisal. So you don't have to act like such a ******* ********.

 

Brother, I have been buying and selling guitars for 40 + years. You can throw your blue book away, because it is worth what someone will pay for it. It has to do with rarity, condition, location where you are selling, who your target market is, if targeting a collector or a player. If you are selling it at a high-end auction or in a retail setting, or if you are seeking an Insurance value, and how bad someone wants it. A whole lot of things play into the final value. Yes, I agree you have to look at what other are selling for. So don't preach Sale and Marketing to me, because it what I do and teach, at a college for a living. So I don't repeat myself, Stop being a ********.

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Hold on a minute, and don't get your hopes too high.

 

Yes, the headstock logo is from the mid-'47 to early '48 period ('46 would have been a straight script logo), but..... I have never seen a 150 with split-parallelograms. The ES-150 had dots until about '52, and then trapezoids.

 

The fretboard markers and tailpiece point toward an L-7. There was an L-7 "electric" of the era, but with a "McCarty" pickup, not a single P-90. This looks like a modified L-7 to me.

Uhh... maple top, Larry. :rolleyes:

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