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'91 J-50 painted heel


vw1300

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See eBay link:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1991-GIBSON-J-50-ACOUSTIC-GUITAR-MINT-/201244381037?hash=item2edb198f6d:g:VrMAAOSwD0lUkd3g

 

the area around the heel is sprayed dark. Is this typical of early Bozeman J-50s or other non-sunburst finished guitars? Or was something done under there?

 

Just wondering. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone.

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Hard to know without inspecting the guitar to see how/if the sides are stained near the neck joint. The back and rest of the neck have nominally "clear" filler that is typical of many vintage J-50's. Some vintage J-50's had the same dark walnut filler on the mahogany that you find on a J-45. Others were unstained.

 

In any case, this strikes me as a seriously overpriced guitar, despite it's nominal "like new" condition.

 

I don't know when the Fullerplast finish and double-paddle neck joint went away, but it was sometime around 1990 or 1991. Many people consider guitars with those features to be less desirable than a nitro finish and dovetail neck joint.

 

Hogeye might jump in on this one, as he has vast knowledge of modern Gibson construction history.

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A 1991 guitar should have a nitro and not have the Fullerplast finish but will still have the paddle neck joint. I gather the only real issue with this design is that it makes a neck reset a pretty nasty undertaking. In fact, it was feared that only Gibson could do the repair. Gibson did away with that neck joint in 1992.

 

Don't know about the neck heel paint but that price seems way out of line for a 1991 guitar.

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The double paddle neck joint was done away with as Gibson started to make a lot more guitars, didn't have the time (too many man hours) for this type of joint, it was a cost decision.

 

From what I gathered from past discussions, the paddle joint just may be superior to the regular dovetail, and guitars with them last way longer / might never need a neck re-set. If that is the case I'm happy with mine.

 

As for the neck on above guitar from ebay, it looks like a Gibson neck to me. Same carve on the back of headstock neck area, same headstock, logo. Looks like it may have had damage of some sort to the heel, and was refinished in that spot.

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See eBay link:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1991-GIBSON-J-50-ACOUSTIC-GUITAR-MINT-/201244381037?hash=item2edb198f6d:g:VrMAAOSwD0lUkd3g

 

the area around the heel is sprayed dark. Is this typical of early Bozeman J-50s or other non-sunburst finished guitars? Or was something done under there?

 

Just wondering. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone.

Nice looking twang box, almost looks like a mahogany heel cap? certainly wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. Maybe for a collector, I only collect guitars to play 'em. My Thanksgiving was the best, hope your was the same.
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Nice looking twang box, almost looks like a mahogany heel cap? certainly wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. Maybe for a collector, I only collect guitars to play 'em. My Thanksgiving was the best, hope your was the same.

 

 

Nope. Not a Mahogany heel cap just the natural heel of a solid Mahogany neck. Looks like they masked it off when they shaded the heel of the neck for whatever reason. Just makes it look a bit odd.

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I like this neck'n'heel a good deal and can't see why it shouldn't come from Gibson.

@Hogeye - Can you support your scepticism with facts or indications it is fake ?

 

One way would be to find the real 90591004'er.

 

 

I don't think Hogeye says the neck is non-factory: only the odd dark finish around the neck/body joint. That's why I wanted to see the guitar sides in the neck area, to see if that dark finish carries over.

 

It's possible it's a repaired cracked neck, where the heel got busted, maybe while trying to remove it for a neck re-set. The dark spray may be to hide a neck heel repair.

 

In any case, I wouldn't touch it at the price, and wouldn't touch it at all without a first-hand inspection. Just a bit too odd.

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I don't think Hogeye says the neck is non-factory: only the odd dark finish around the neck/body joint. That's why I wanted to see the guitar sides in the neck area, to see if that dark finish carries over.

 

 

Hmmm, but then I guess one would be able to see a surface difference live. Seller of course wouldn't zoom in on that when claiming everything 'as new'.

 

Maybe a well done all neck refinish is the case. Maybe it's another joker from still rather young Bozeman.

 

 

 

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The neck was not done by Gibson. It looks nice but it isn't Gibson. There was some reason for it being shaded so I would look for that. Bad neck re-set maybe? They should have shaded the heel as well. Looks just wrong.

 

 

I like this neck'n'heel a good deal and can't see why it shouldn't come from Gibson.

@Hogeye - Can you support your scepticism with facts or indications it is fake ?

 

One way would be to find the real 90591004'er.

 

 

I don't think Hogeye says the neck is non-factory: only the odd dark finish around the neck/body joint. That's why I wanted to see the guitar sides in the neck area, to see if that dark finish carries over.

 

It's possible it's a repaired cracked neck, where the heel got busted, maybe while trying to remove it for a neck re-set. The dark spray may be to hide a neck heel repair.

 

In any case, I wouldn't touch it at the price, and wouldn't touch it at all without a first-hand inspection. Just a bit too odd.

I took what HOG said to mean Gibson would have not shaded the neck like that, but rather would have painted the heel as well.

 

I haven't seen as many as you folks, but I tend to agree. In fact, other that heels that have an inlay, I have never seen a Gibby heel painted like this.

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I haven't seen as many as you folks, but I tend to agree. In fact, other that heels that have an inlay, I have never seen a Gibby heel painted like this.

 

 

Actually, a fair number of Gibson have shaded neck heels, but that almost always carries over onto shaded sides near the neck heel. And I've never seen it on a J-50. Also, they almost certainly would have shaded the "heel cap".

 

But it doesn't make sense with the rest of the guitar being "natural", including the rest of the neck.

 

No, something is going on, whether at the factory, or afterwards. Looks like some mistake or damage being covered up.

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No, something is going on, whether at the factory, or afterwards. Looks like some mistake or damage being covered up.

 

 

 

Heh, , , looking at the lacquer on the back and the way the spraying is done, I still believe it's real.

 

Perhaps a black sheep, , , but from the 1991 Montana farm.

 

If however, the seller is trying to cover up a scar of some sort, he runs a big risk by calling it "new".

 

It'll sooner or later boomerang right back at him - not least considering the tag.

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Heh, , , looking at the lacquer on the back and the way the spraying is done, I still believe it's real.

 

Perhaps a black sheep, , , but from the 1991 Montana farm.

 

If however, the seller is trying to cover up a scar of some sort, he runs a big risk by calling it "new".

 

It'll sooner or later boomerang right back at him - not least considering the tag.

Possibly, but this theory has a few things against it.

 

One, why go through the trouble of any black on the guitar at all? Certainly, if this was done at the factory, it would be a one-off.

 

Two, WHY? there has to be a reason besides just because.

 

It could have been done at the factory, but more than one unlikely thing happened to create this if it was. So at the very least, might expect Gibson fixed it, and gave it a "non-Gibson" paint scheme?

 

Possible, but it's a stretch.

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Nope. Not a Mahogany heel cap just the natural heel of a solid Mahogany neck. Looks like they masked it off when they shaded the heel of the neck for whatever reason. Just makes it look a bit odd.

Here's a 90 AJ looks like rosewood but the heel cap is not like the heel itself but more like the rest of the back. I don't know? With Gibson is not that uncommon to see one offs coming down the line, maybe they go for the uniqueness a bit more than other builders? IDK? It don't explain the dark/black heel but they obviously do leave the end caps unadulterated (or in the case of this one it looks RW to me) from time to time.

 

Here's the link I see it on... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Early-1990s-Gibson-Advanced-Jumbo/321930294836?

 

There's a good shot of the end cap in one of the pics.

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Here's a 90 AJ looks like rosewood but the heel cap is not like the heel itself but more like the rest of the back. I don't know? With Gibson is not that uncommon to see one offs coming down the line, maybe they go for the uniqueness a bit more than other builders? IDK? It don't explain the dark/black heel but they obviously do leave the end caps unadulterated (or in the case of this one it looks RW to me) from time to time.

 

Here's the link I see it on... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Early-1990s-Gibson-Advanced-Jumbo/321930294836?

 

There's a good shot of the end cap in one of the pics.

That's interesting. Is that a rosewood cap on the heel? or is it hog stained to look like the back?

 

I think it leaves the door open to maybe learn something about early 90's Gibsons. Might be something different there regarding what they used to do?

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That's interesting. Is that a rosewood cap on the heel? or is it hog stained to look like the back?

 

I think it leaves the door open to maybe learn something about early 90's Gibsons. Might be something different there regarding what they used to do?

the grain does look a bit different than the RW back.
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There would be no reason to put a wood heel cap on. It's probably just the neck taking the filler stain differently as the grain changes direction on the heel radius.

Do guitar builders ever need a 'reason' to do a lot of the things the things they do? lol

 

Your probably right about the stain though.

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Do guitar builders ever need a 'reason' to do a lot of the things the things they do? lol

 

 

In a production building process, they have a reason not to take any extra construction steps. Time is money.

 

But you're right: we shouldn't be looking for logic here.

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