capmaster Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 ... Herbert Von Karajan once said that "I have Travelled the Entire World, and have yet to find anywhere a Statue Erected in Honour of a Critic." ... I guess this quote might have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnneS Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfZzskPZHzM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kshfSh7TJNw So many theories on so many subjects, but so little time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Buckeridge Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 These Famous Authors Made It Okay To Commit Grammar No-No's http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/20/grammar-rules_n_4768485.html Top 10 Authors Who Ignored The Basic Rules of Punctuation http://qwiklit.com/2014/03/05/top-10-authors-who-ignored-the-basic-rules-of-punctuation/ 7 bogus grammar 'errors' you don't need to worry about http://theweek.com/articles/467053/7-bogus-grammar-errors-dont-need-worry-about Thanks for Playing... Must Try Harder! May I be so bold as to recommend the Writing of American Author P.G. Wodehouse? His Jeeves and Wooster Stories are so amusing, you can't but help to have a good time reading them. The Late Queen Mother devoted an hour daily, every afternoon to reading Wodehouse Stories, Giggling away on the Settee. At first, the Unconventional Layout, Use of Space, Grammar and Punctuation will throw you sideways, it all seems so very incorrect, as if written on another Planet. But as you read on, and the Characters Come Alive, Developing, Endearing Themselves you find that the Unconventional Writing Style, perfectly fits the Eccentric Individuals, their Brain Dazzling Conversation and the Hilariously Ridiculous, Mind Boggling Situations, Portrayed. It's the most fun way I can think of to Learn not to be Institutionally Trapped by In The Box Conventions and Bound by the Limitations of a Tightly Structured, Formalised Mindset. After all, you would soon find that if every Song was Verse, Chorus, Verse, Chorus, you would soon long for the Refreshment of a Brand New Format. The Institutionalised Mind, in the very manner in which it Portrays its Thought, merely tells everyone all about where the Author has Come From, by Virtue of the Widespread, Common Effect of Conventional Pressure. But the Liberal, Creative Mind in the very manner in which it Portrays its Thoughts, Tells Everyone where the Author is Going, and they know the Journey will take them Somewhere Completely New! As you get to know Great Authors, you will find that their Seeming Liberties with Format and Style are like the Brush Strokes of an Artist, as is their Use of Structure Form and Colour, so the Signature on the Bottom of their Painting is Seemingly Redundant. One Glance and you Already Know, WHO's Work it is that you are Looking At. No one needs to tell you that, and you don't need to check, you identified them correctly from the first moment you saw it. Great Composers, Great Lyricists and Great Artists and Musicians, are just the same. You Hear or See their Work and One Phrase or Motif Alone is Enough to Immediately Identify Them. The alternative is to be just the same as most everybody else, copy (as most do) others you aspire to be like. Better I think by far, to be Yourself. So few people ever really Learn to be Authentically Themselves. And they go through the Whole of their Lives, Wearing a Form of Presentational Mask. One they Believe will Help Them to Belong, be Accepted, and Earn Them Rewards from Group Collectives. In Reality. It's Living in Fear. But Artists Break The Mould. That Others would Force Them Into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Ffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars68 Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 Dispite a little bit of controversy towards the end of this thread, I gained a lot of insight into music theory and thank you for your input. So, since I was the one who started this thread and wrote the song in question, I now declare the song to be in the key of Dm, and reserve the right to veto any other suggestions By the way, here is a finished (sort of...) version of the song. https://soundcloud.com/lars1968/where-the-wheat-grows-to-the-1 My singinging is very poor, so the big question now is what key am I actually singing in... Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 7 bogus grammar 'errors' you don't need to worry about http://theweek.com/a...eed-worry-about I agree with most of those, except 3. Don't use "which" as a relative pronoun. This is an easy grammatical rule that is easy to apply, and many people just don't seem to know it. So they look uninformed. The linked article claims there's "no basis" for the rule. What "basis" is there for many of the rules of English language usage? BTW, just deserts are quite a bit different than just desserts. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 I agree with most of those, except 3. Don't use "which" as a relative pronoun. This is an easy grammatical rule that is easy to apply, and many people just don't seem to know it. So they look uninformed. The linked article claims there's "no basis" for the rule. What "basis" is there for many of the rules of English language usage? BTW, just deserts are quite a bit different than just desserts. ;) These bogus grammar 'errors' are indeed a very good read. Being a foreigner using English as second language I basically don't have a right to post an opinion, but in case of "which" as a relative pronoun I sometimes go with Ben Yagoda. My only reason is an aesthetic one. It could be due to my lack of experience in English syntax, but sometimes I feel the need to avoid using "that" several times within one sentence. In these cases I tend to use "which" as a relative pronoun. I beg your pardon for that. It is just my ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnneS Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 By the way, I like the song, Lars--nice vibe, whatever the key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars68 Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 By the way, I like the song, Lars--nice vibe, whatever the key. Thanks, Anne! I sure hope my use of English grammar are right. Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Lars, you are doing fine. Write what you know and continue to write it with passion. Perform it sincerely and people will get the message. Not all will agree or like the message, but the message will be there..Don't get caught-up in countless grammer rules and don't let anyone confine you with boundaries. Writing (in this case, songwriting) is a very personal job/hobby/expression. The critics said and still say all kinds of harsh things about Bob Dylan---his songs are too vague, too many cliques, too many easy rhymes, bad grammer, horrible vocals, too many slang words, and on and on. However, Dylan didn't and doesn't really give-a-crap, because he stands with the giants and the giants are on his side....Keep doing what you do. That's how we gradually evolve and become better. Here's a little insight on Dylan: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/bob-dylan-thanks-jimi-hendrix-johnny-cash-in-musicares-speech-20150207 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars68 Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 MP, you are absolutely right about Dylan. He is one of a kind and I find his stuff extremely inspirational, especially the earlier folk stuff. I'm not too worried about grammar, I was only jokingly refering to the side tracking this thread was on for a while. When it comes to my own songs, I'm mostly concerned about the singing. I don't like my own voice, and I struggle to sing on pitch. As for the melody, chords, lyrics, and guitar playing, I think it is ok for a beginner. Thanks for the Dylan link! Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 ....In these cases I tend to use "which" as a relative pronoun. I beg your pardon for that. It is just my ignorance. Well, you're in good company. About 90% of native English speakers don't seem to know that rule either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickie Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I think it's safe to say that 90 per cent of the time, the first chord you hear in a tune is gonna be the key. Not always the case of course. Using the Beatles again as an example "Cant Buy Me Love" starts with the chorus E Minor, but the key home chord is the C Major from the verse beginning. No set in stone rules as many have already said. These days when I am writing, as often as not I go back to the old way of just thinking up a melody, sing it into my phone (used to be a cassette back in the 70s),and working out chords and arrangement later. That way you don't start off worrying about any rules or theory. Lots of people have composed that way. Lionel Bart who wrote the musical 'Oliver' was a famous example. The songs mostly got written first in his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I think it's safe to say that 90 per cent of the time, the first chord you hear in a tune is gonna be the key. Not always the case of course. Using the Beatles again as an example "Cant Buy Me Love" starts with the chorus E Minor, but the key home chord is the C Major from the verse beginning. The Beatles were great with pesky little things like the opening chorus to "Can't Buy Me Love". Think of the staggering opening Fadd9 chord Harrison plays on the Ric 12 at the start of "Hard Day's Night", even though the song is in G major. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09QJt9MBBUY A Hard Day's Night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickie Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 The Beatles were great with pesky little things like the opening chorus to "Can't Buy Me Love". Think of the staggering opening Fadd9 chord Harrison plays on the Ric 12 at the start of "Hard Day's Night", even though the song is in G major. Yeah, I saw a piece recently where Giles Martin was showing with the master tape how there is also a piano playing along with that opening Harrison chord, all adding to the mystery of what chord it actually is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickie Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I think it's safe to say that 90 per cent of the time, the first chord you hear in a tune is gonna be the key. Not always the case of course. Using the Beatles again as an example "Cant Buy Me Love" starts with the chorus E Minor, but the key home chord is the C Major from the verse beginning. And in truth my example above was not so great anyway. The first chord we hear instrumentally is indeed the E minor. But the words McCartney first sings (Cant't buy me) is a first position C major triad. Maybe I should have used a different one. 'I Wanna Hold Your Hand' maybe :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickie Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 double post, sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraser_S Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 There's always a lot of talk of chords in discussions like this, which is great, but we mustn't forget also the importance of lyrical - and perhaps instrumental - melody as a means of taking one's songs throughout a musical adventure when composing; that is, to put it briefly: coming up with the melody first and then putting chords to it - and so on throughout the sections of a song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 ...to put it briefly: coming up with the melody first and then putting chords to it - and so on throughout the sections of a song. As a keyboardist, it's all about the chord structure for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraser_S Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 As a keyboardist, it's all about the chord structure for me. Yeah, to tell you the truth, I do often drink a symbiotic brew, hehe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I think it's safe to say that 90 per cent of the time, the first chord you hear in a tune is gonna be the key. Not always the case of course. The key is where the song resolves. Take Sugaree. Everyone says its in E because that's the first chord but it resolves to A (or C if you play it in G). If if you work out the chords in terms of scale notes, it makes more sense in A/C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody78 Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 This was the part worth quoting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 As a keyboardist, it's all about the chord structure for me. I often wonder. When I play with a keyboardist (used to), I was aware that playing guitar chords that were the same as the chords the keyboardist were playing would not sound good together unless I changed the chord structure. More like, 1 3 5 chords tended to sound better than 1 5 3 chords. Or else play another octave or half octave, and it's OK. Have you noticed that? Or do you change the structure when playing with guitarist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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