Black Dog Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Hi everyone. This is my first post. Glad to be on the forum. I have a new Epi Black Beauty. I am getting ready to put a Bigsby B7 on with a Vibramate. I see that lots of Gretsch and LP's have standard bridges w/Bigsby's. Should I go to a roller style bridge? If so which one? Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pesh Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Hi everyone. This is my first post. Glad to be on the forum. I have a new Epi Black Beauty. I am getting ready to put a Bigsby B7 on with a Vibramate. I see that lots of Gretsch and LP's have standard bridges w/Bigsby's. Should I go to a roller style bridge? If so which one? Thanks in advance. Hello, and welcome to the forums! With regards to a replacement bridge; you need to be wary about you're purchasing. Epiphone bridges differ from Gibson bridges in may fashions; most notably the mounting posts that are used; Gibson uses imperial measurements, and Epiphone use metric. Also depending on what particular posts are already on your guitar; you could have large posts or small posts; so you need to make sure not only that any new bridge that you purchase is suitable with Epiphone replacement, but also that you get the correct post diameters, or you'll have to replace the replacement bridge or replace your posts. On top of that; a thing to consider with Bigsby units is that they will change what is known as the break-angle of your strings. Usually a Les Paul model has a tailpiece, which has adjustable poles, which therefore adjust the height of the tailpiece. The break-angle is the angle at which the strings travel straight from the nut to the bridge, and then changes down as they head to the tailpiece. With a Bigsby; the option to adjust the height of the tailpiece is removed. Depending on your bridge model, and the setup you use, problems can arise as this break angle is increased (because the Bigsby is flat against the body, and therefore much lower than the bridge). Players who have higher action but screw a tailpiece right down to the body can suffer from the strings resting against the back of the bridge (ABR bridges are usually OK as they're narrower; modern Nashville style are the main culprits), which screws stuff up and can damage your posts due to added pressure. The same has been seen with Bigsby's; every guitar is different, and yours might be an unlucky one. So if you get a new bridge, or stick with the current one, you might need to change your action to avoid the strings resting on anything but the saddles in the bridge. With regards to saddles (roller bridges, etc) these have been known to assist saving strings, as the string glides more smoothly over the bridge contact point. But some players leave the originals in and use lubrication, and get away with it. GraphTech saddles (impregnated with lubricating substances) also work this way, as do many similar products. So a change in saddle or bridge is not strictly necessary. Maybe try attaching the Binbsy to the guitar and seeing how it gets on with the current hardware, before spending money on something you might not need. Hope this helps; send me a message if you'd like more information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted December 15, 2015 Author Share Posted December 15, 2015 Thanks for the reply, very helpful. I had a feeling it would be complicated. As for the break angle, I was thinking that the vibramate would help since it elevates the Bigsby a bit. I may just try it with the stock bridge for a while and see how it goes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I put the same configuration on my Les Paul. Didn't have to change anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpruceTop Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I put a B7 w/Vibramate on my Black Beauty. I kept the stock bridge. I have no clearance prob's at the back of the bridge. I also have an Epi LP Std w/factory Bigsby. My observation is that since the Bigsby with the Vibrmate is mounted on top of the adapter and not to the top of the guitar, it is higher off the body - the Vibramate acts as a spacer. Thus, less break angle over the bridge is less than if it were mounted directly to the body. Also, I do not have tuning prob's with the Black Beauty. I did have to clean up the nut a but. That's where most tuning prob's I have encountered come from. And I think guitars with Bigsby's tend to have less tuning prob's if there is less break angle over the bridge - all things equal. All to say, in my experience, give the factory bridge a try. It worked for me. And maybe just the nut would need some attention if you have tuning prob's. The other mod I did was re-wiring the whole thing. GFS Liverpool nk and br and Seymour Duncat Phat Cat middle pu's. So it has coil cutting on the HB's, an on/off switch for the middle pu and an on/off switch for the nk and be pu's. Any pu combo is available. Amazing guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pesh Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Thanks for the weigh-in fellas; I was unaware of the dimensions of a Vibramate and didn't think it would have made a considerable difference; I stand corrected! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Thanks for the weigh-in fellas; I was unaware of the dimensions of a Vibramate and didn't think it would have made a considerable difference; I stand corrected! yea believe it or not Pesh, it does. The mounting plate (aka: "dogbone") for the vibramate (which replaces the stop bar) is between 1/8 and 1/4 thick. You also don't screw it down tight, you leave some room for it to pivot a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 So I have the B7 on the guitar. there were some minor problems. on this Epi, the stop bar post inserts do not sit flush with the surface of the guitar. there is a rim that sits about 1-2 mm above the surface. That, combined with the Vibramate itself raises the Bigsby up a fair amount. As a result, the break angle is not a problem at all, in fact, I think it will probably help with tuning stability and the overall function of the vibrato. However, it raises the tailpiece up so that it would have taken a fair amount of force to get to tailpiece to line up with the original strap screw hole. Also, the strap screw hole was a bit off center so it didn't line up well with the tailpiece. Finally, the Vibramate tailpiece plate was too thick to fit. In other words, with the tailpiece plate mounted, the tailpiece would not fold down into place. So, I drilled a new hole for the tailpiece/strap post and mounted the tailpiece without the Vibramate plate. I did use the spacer/washer for the tailpiece that came with the V7. It looks great. Plays/functions well. the tone and sustain do not seem adveresly effected at all. overall this guitar seems to have a bit better sustain than my Epi 60's tribute, which is not bad at all. At some point, I may consider a permanent mounting. How difficult is it to remove the stop bar post screw inserts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 You also don't screw it down tight, you leave some room for it to pivot a bit. Oh, so is that what you are supposed to do? It says not to "over tighten", but it does not say to leave it loose... Crap, now I have to do it all over again. son of a gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Maybe not.. it doesn't have to move much to be okay. How much space is there from the top of the edge where the binding on the guitar is, to the bottom of the hinge part? should be some sort of gap there. Also, I had the same problem with the strap pin hole. Mine is a 95 Gibson USA standard.. I guess they eyeballed that by the "close enough for rock and roll" set of protocols.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 Close enough indeed. So I took it all apart. It took a couple tries to get the V7 just right, not too tight, no too loose (I hope...). Then the tailpiece came right into place with the adapter plate installed. Still needed the new hole for the strap pin, properly centered. At least that wasn't a waste. Now it all looks good. Fits well. Looks great. Sounds really good, good sustain. Certainly not any worse than original, maybe better. At least I have a bit more practice restringing a Bigsby. I have the Vibramate Spoiler, but I don't want to use it because I think it detracts from the look of the Bigsby. So far, the restringing doesn't seem too bad. Thanks for all the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis G Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 At least I have a bit more practice restringing a Bigsby. I have the Vibramate Spoiler, but I don't want to use it because I think it detracts from the look of the Bigsby. So far, the restringing doesn't seem too bad. Wow! I put a B7 on my Dot a year or so ago and didn't have any issues at all, but then again, I didn't use a Vibramate either. As for restringing a Bigsby (I have four of them), a capo is your friend (to hold tension on the string till you get it wound) and a pair of needle nose pliers to bend the ball end of the string 90 degrees makes getting the string on much easier. YMMV but works for me. YouTube is also your friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Great,, sounds like you're all set.. for restringing, you could also take a cork from a wine bottle, and out of that cut a triangular piece of the cork so it slides under the string post to hold the end on to the post. this is what I use to make the string change less a pain in the arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis G Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 for restringing, you could also take a cork from a wine bottle, and out of that cut a triangular piece of the cork so it slides under the string post to hold the end on to the post. this is what I use to make the string change less a pain in the arse. Yep. You can also use erasers or those foam wedges your wife/gf/s-o uses to apply makeup. Tried 'em all and I like the capo approach, but as I said YMMV. In any event, a string change on any of my Bigsby equipped guitars takes only a few more minutes than the others. It's not a big deal once you've done it a few times. And let's face it, they just look sooooo cooool, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcwillow777 Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I agree about the Vibramate and B7 not being a problem with the bridge. However, I roller bridge couldn't hurt. I'd try it without first. If you find that the strings bind in the saddles, it could be something as easy as a burr to file down. I did put a B-70 on an LP style and I did need a Wilkinson roller bridge. The angle from the high "E" string to the bottom of the roller was too drastic and it hit the back of the bridge causing the guitar to continually go out of tune. That really should be an issue with the Vibramate. Like was said before, it raises the B7 off of the guitar. The guitar that I do have the Vibramate and B7 on, Agile AL-3000M Neckthru, has Graph Tech string saver saddles. I have no issues at all with the guitar going out of tune. It is my go to guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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