wastrel Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Hi all, I'm a total newbie to this site, and not a very good guitar player. However I keep on trying. My question is a simple one. About a year ago (mid life crisis) I purchased a 2013 LP standard quilted top which I love and continues to inspire me to improve. However the surface finish has started to crack, crack lines all seem to start around the location of holes in the top (controls, bridge etc). I've attached a a photo. Is this normal? I'm a traditional boat builder by trade so am well aware of the way wood moves and changes with time and moisture content. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Cheers, Nick, in deepest darkest Cornwall.
Versatile Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Hi Nick, HNY and welcome to the forums.... Nitrocellulose lacquer has an inherent tendency to crack sooner or later Some folks regard this as 'character' and evidence of 'mojo' and desirability... :unsure: Some guitars kept in controlled atmosphere storage can survive into old age without cracks or 'checks' Guitars taken on gigs etc will be subject to changes in temp/humidity which may hasten the onset of lacquer checking Enjoy your guitar.... V
Cougar Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Nitrocellulose lacquer has an inherent tendency to crack sooner or later.... I've been meaning to ask about the cause of this finish checking. It's not uncommon. As you say, (fairly quick) changes in temp/humidity are the likely culprits.
Guest Farnsbarns Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 It's fool as cuck and people pay a lot of money to have their guitar made to look like it's checked. Certainly nothing to worry about.
iluvcrap2000 Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Send it to me I'll take it off your hands.
pippy Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Not 'normal' but not 'Unheard-of'. I bought a 1995 R0 in 2008 which was in literally Mint condition - it had been kept in a sealed glass case since new - but within two years looked like this; The checking has advanced considerably since this snap was taken. My other 3 LPs (one '91, one '93 and another '95) have always been kept in exactly the same conditions in the same room but in 8 years it's only the R0 which has 'checked'. Pip.
capmaster Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 Hello Nick, and welcome here. Pippy nailed it in my opinion saying "Not 'normal' but not 'Unheard-of'," along with a picture of his checked LP top. To be honest, I would be disappointed, too. Furthermore, due to your profession your expertise tells you that something went wrong during finishing, and I think that, too. I think though that it isn't always easy for the artisan to predict how a specific piece of timber may react during and after finishing. The finish of my 2011 quilt top Les Paul is rather wavy on the top, and I guess this came due to varying soakage. However, there are no cracks up to now. I'm also unsure if there are significant differences in finishing quarter-sawn flamed maple and flat-sawn quilted maple timbers. Anyway, the surfaces of the finishes on my quarter-sawn Gibson maple tops look more consistent. To my eyes your guitar looks like finished with a tinted coat. This makes a repair a little more difficult compared to a stained, clear-coated top. However, a skilled, experienced luthier should be able to do a finish repair without making the guitar looking blotchy. It shouldn't cost that much, too, but to my experiences you will have to do without your guitar approximately three weeks.
Guest Farnsbarns Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 I have been told before that when cracks are along the grain, as in the OP, it's due to wood continuing to dry or taking on moisture when moved to a humid evironment and checking, being mainly across the grain, is due to expansion and contraction along the gain which is caused by temperature, not changing moisture content. Take that as you will, it came from a man at GAK.
capmaster Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 I'm not sure how to refer finish cracks on quilted maple to the grain since it's flat-sawn. Taking a look at the wood blank shown below, you may see the wavy grain on the narrow, "quarter-sawn like" side which will be the rib, and the undulating structure of some truncated annual growth rings on the broadside being tho top or bottom area:
cs orange widow Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 Not lookin to light a fire under anyone's @$$ but I would personally be chapped if this happens to my les Paul's... Understanding change In humidity an whatnot can effect finishes, but I take great care of them an they are always in the case when I'm not playing them.. So taking such good care of them for say 5,8,12 years then to open the case an there checked like that,,,,,, i would be somethin mad!!!! But I guess i could shed some light on it,,, tell my wife it's ruined an I need a new les paul..... This could work out ok!!!
nick_s Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 It's defective, you'd better send it to me for safe keeping so that it doesn't stress you out and all that :D
Guest Farnsbarns Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 I'm not sure how to refer finish cracks on quilted maple to the grain since it's flat-sawn. Taking a look at the wood blank shown below, you may see the wavy grain on the narrow, "quarter-sawn like" side which will be the rib, and the undulating structure of some truncated annual growth rings on the broadside being tho top or bottom area: I'm not sure I understand. That piece of wood obviously has grain direction left to right so a line across the photo would be along the grain. A line top to bottom would be across it.
capmaster Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 I'm not sure I understand. That piece of wood obviously has grain direction left to right so a line across the photo would be along the grain. A line top to bottom would be across it. A line parallel to the top surface will be along the grain regardless of direction. On flatsawn surfaces the entire area is "a grain layer" so to say, "disturbed" only by the wavy structure of quilted maple.
wastrel Posted January 5, 2016 Author Posted January 5, 2016 Thanks for all the replies, I'm going to call it 'patina' and not worry about it. I live in an old cottage in deepest Cornwall in the UK, we had a nice summer but it's been very damp so far this winter. I put it down to atmospheric humidity getting into the exposed end grain in the various holes in the top, leading to slight dimensional change in the wood and hence the cracking of the finish. I'm just glad the modern varnishes I use on boats don't suffer from this lack of elasticity. Thanks again Nick
monabri Posted January 16, 2016 Posted January 16, 2016 2015 LP Deluxe - one very careful owner (me). What did I do to her to make her treat me this way? http://imgur.com/a/0RlP4 The love affair is OVER!
pippy Posted January 16, 2016 Posted January 16, 2016 ...What did I do to her to make her treat me this way?... Played her? Treated her as a tool and not a piece of jewellery? Pip.
ajay Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 It can crack easily if Your guitar is in, say, a cold closet, and the case is opened near a fireplace or wood stove. The cracks don't always happen all by themselves. That's why Gibson's Lifetime Warranty does NOT cover cracking or checking in the Nitrocellulose. I saw a guy bring a '68 Telecaster into a gig from his car in January. I watched it as the entire top began cracking as He was in a hurry to take it out and he arrived late to the gig. My friend bought the Telecaster that night at a huge discount because the owner was so upset about his sweet Tele cracking like that. Personally, I think that it looks beautiful with it's disrupted finish. Every time that Paul takes it out I remember watching those cracks crawl across the top. It is kind of a Creme Yellow top, and with the checking on it looks just awesome. I wish that I would have had the cash with me that night. it's a cool story when You saw the cracks magically appear on the top the night before You bought it.
aliasphobias Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 I put it down to atmospheric humidity getting into the exposed end grain in the various holes in the top, leading to slight dimensional change in the wood and hence the cracking of the finish. That is beautifully put. I would like to reuse that from time to time, with your permission of course.
btoth76 Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 2015 LP Deluxe - one very careful owner (me). What did I do to her to make her treat me this way? http://imgur.com/a/0RlP4 The love affair is OVER! It happens: It's my 2011 L6S. It was treated like a jewelry. Still... Yours is Pelham Blue? Mine is silverburst (Pelham blue with black perimeter). Interesting coincidence, if so. None of my other modern Gibsons have any finish cracks. Bence.
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