Mike_L Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 Hey All, I'm upgrading the wiring in my LP and want to try some PIO capacitors. I've read elsewhere on the internet that the Gibson reissue Bumble Bees are not PIO, that they are really ceramic imitations. I've sent an email to Gibson with no response. I've also seen Bumble Bees on Allparts that are PIO. Are these from the same source as the Gibsons? Can anyone give me the straight dope on the Bumble Bees? I've got a set of Emersons from StewMac on hand right now. Any opinions / advice is welcome. Thx
Rabs Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 I say, don't buy in to the nonsense.... $130 for two caps is insane.... Emerson ones will be fine.. A PIO Cap is a PIO Cap.
retrorod Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 As much as I would "like to believe".....I have to say that the marketers of said products are selling snake oil for big bucks! PIO caps can be had for much less. I don't buy into this marketing ploy.
Dub-T-123 Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 I say, don't buy in to the nonsense.... $130 for two caps is insane.... Emerson ones will be fine.. A PIO Cap is a PIO Cap. Emerson are rebranded Russian PIO, so you can get the same thing for cheaper if you buy the original Russian part. Also, not all PIO caps are created equal, but whatever you do just don't buy the Gibson caps
surfpup Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 Luxe is making good PIO reissue Bumble Bee style caps. The Vitamin-Q cap that Allparts sells is good too. Bargains can be found on eBay sometimes so look around.
Rabs Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 Emerson are rebranded Russian PIO Yeah I heard that before.. but I said that since he already has a set... They are decent enough, may as well use those... Ive used Black Bee caps before, always got good results with those.
rct Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 Hey All, I'm upgrading the wiring in my LP and want to try some PIO capacitors. I've read elsewhere on the internet that the Gibson reissue Bumble Bees are not PIO, that they are really ceramic imitations. I've sent an email to Gibson with no response. I've also seen Bumble Bees on Allparts that are PIO. Are these from the same source as the Gibsons? Can anyone give me the straight dope on the Bumble Bees? I've got a set of Emersons from StewMac on hand right now. Any opinions / advice is welcome. Thx What is it about the sound of your Les Paul that you want to change? rct
btoth76 Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 Hello! Here they are. Military specification, Russian K40Y-9s. Four of them for $5+shipping. Why pay hundreds for a repackaged version of it. http://www.ebay.com/itm/0-22uF-200V-K40Y-9-PIO-PAPER-IN-OIL-Audio-capacitors-NOS-Lot-of-4-pcs-/231534680604 If You google "K40Y-9", You will get lots of hits. Even in the US: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-2X-022uf-K40Y-9-RUSSIAN-CAPACITORS-PAPER-IN-OIL-0-022-PIO-/321689423617 Cheers... Bence
btoth76 Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 Gibson Bumblebees: (Source: http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/historics-reissues/118027-historic-gibson-faux-bumblebee-caps.html) Luxe Repros: Bence.
pippy Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 ...I've read elsewhere on the internet that the Gibson reissue Bumble Bees are not PIO, that they are really ceramic imitations... Well, they aren't ceramic but they ARE imitations. Whether or not they are any worse than the original 1950's PIO 'bees is another matter entirely. From post #17 in the MLP link; "I really don't believe some of you guys. An an electronic technologist (30+yrs) I can tell you the old caps were basically nothing special. The bumblebee look was because this was the standard way to mark part values before machines could use the MIL system. These components had poor tolerance and materials used as well as poorer manufacturing. If you came across an original and took it out and measured it the chance of it still being anywhere near spec in value are small. There's absolutely nothing wrong with modern caps as they are better constructed, better tolerance and will last longer than the old paperwrapper, waxed rolled caps made pre-electronic revolution. These phoneys cost money because no other user/manufacturer would ask for caps to made like this for any other electronic product so it's basically a specialty production." I can't check back because the relevant post has been pulled but didn't our old friend and much-missed former forumite Donny show that by 1960 genuine BumbleBees had changed from PIO to a wrapped-foil construction (which is what the Wesco caps are) in any case?.......* Having said all that and not wanting to kick-start yet another round of the "Oh Yes it Does!" "Oh No it Doesn't" pantomime surrounding caps I swapped some ceramics for wrapped-foil PIOs and it did make a difference... Pip. * EDIT : I see Bence has already helped here...
btoth76 Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 ... [/i]I can't check back because the relevant post has been pulled but didn't our old friend and much-missed former forumite Donny show that by 1960 genuine BumbleBees had changed from PIO to a wrapped-foil construction (which is what the Wesco caps are) in any case?.......* ... Hello Pippy! According, to a post at another Forum, Sprague changed the construction of the Bumblebees from PIOs to Mylar-type during mid-1959. (Source: http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-home-depot/194271-1959-les-paul-build-237.html) This makes it more confusing. The most-loved era of the Les Paul production is 1958 to 1960. As it seems, during that era both variants of the 'Bees were used. Best wishes... Bence
pippy Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 Which means that, in one way, the repro 'Bees used by Gibson ARE to historic specs after all... Pip.
capmaster Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 These would be fine - 0.60 € apiece: http://www.musikding.de/MKT1813-22nF-400V_1
Dub-T-123 Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 These would be fine - 0.60 € apiece: http://www.musikding.de/MKT1813-22nF-400V_1 I like the Roederstein MKT1813 but just to point out to the OP these are film caps not PIO
badbluesplayer Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 Here's a 0.022 uf 1959 Bumblebee cap that I'm getting ready to remove from this 1959 Gibsonette GA-8 amp. PIO.... BFD.... The customer might sell it for the right price. Repeat after me - 1959.... 1959.... 1959...
capmaster Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 Repeat after me - 1959.... 1959.... 1959... Reminds me that I'll be 57 very soon :P
Mike_L Posted January 6, 2016 Author Posted January 6, 2016 What is it about the sound of your Les Paul that you want to change? rct It's more to satisfy my curiosity. I swapped out the stock '59 pickups with SD Pearly Gates and liked the deeper, rich sound. But then I went with the '57 Classic and Classic Plus PUs and they seem to be a good go between from the previous PUs. I'm very happy with this configuration. I've read where PIOs will enhance the sound further and I'd like to try some out.
pippy Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 It's more to satisfy my curiosity... Best reason there is. Pip.
capmaster Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 I like the Roederstein MKT1813 but just to point out to the OP these are film caps not PIO They are fine. I put some of these in several electric guitars in the 1980's. They are still in service.
capmaster Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 Which means that, in one way, the repro 'Bees used by Gibson ARE to historic specs after all... Pip. Aptly noted!
jdgm Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 I thought this recent post in the archtop section was very good; he also posted it elsewhere but I can't find that at the moment. http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/127059-dispelling-some-popular-myths/
capmaster Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 Yep - it can be found in the Les Paul subforum: http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/127060-myths-and-missconceptions/
jdgm Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 Yep - it can be found in the Les Paul subforum: http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/127060-myths-and-missconceptions/ Thankyou Cap, that was the thread I was looking for..... [thumbup]
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