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ever get the feeling you've been cheated?


denis-brazil

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well, well, well my friends...i told you a couple of moths ago...the 59 tribute pickups were a terrible mistake...people joined in this forum to deffend them...alright... i always said it sounded weak to my ears...not just about low output,but a poor punch..

the fact is the 59 tribute are n longer avalible...the new traditonal are fadded with 57 classic...what it means? gibson reconized it was above of the reasonable...

i will definitily change my pups...so please i do accept sugestions...i do like old classic rock and roll .. no metal....ive heard about diferent brands..i dont know them....

 

anybody knows these pickups tested by guitar player? http://www.guitarpla...ith-video/50370

 

 

i do respect all opinions...pls respect mine..\\\\disapointed gibson...

 

 

cheers

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With all due respect...

 

We could quite easily trot out a list of fifty boutique p'up makers and models but why should we bother? We might as well tell you which shirts to buy.

WE don't know what YOU like. Only YOU know what YOU like.

 

The '57 Classics and the '59s are, in the opinion of most folks here, very good pickups indeed - in that they get close to what we consider proper 'PAF' tone.

If YOU don't like them then there seems absolutely no point in us making any further suggestions as we clearly have different tastes.

What would be the point in listing the differences between Shaws; 490s and so on?

WE don't hear with YOUR ears.

 

Do your own homework. Visit dealers and try stuff out for yourself. Search the web and listen to clips. It's not too difficult. Don't be so lazy.

 

Pip.

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well, well, well my friends...i told you a couple of moths ago...the 59 tribute pickups were a terrible mistake...people joined in this forum to deffend them...alright... i always said it sounded weak to my ears...not just about low output,but a poor punch..

the fact is the 59 tribute are n longer avalible...the new traditonal are fadded with 57 classic...what it means? gibson reconized it was above of the reasonable...

i will definitily change my pups...so please i do accept sugestions...i do like old classic rock and roll .. no metal....ive heard about diferent brands..i dont know them....

 

anybody knows these pickups tested by guitar player? http://www.guitarplayer.com/pickups/1057/five-new-paf-clones-reviewed-with-video/50370

 

 

i do respect all opinions...pls respect mine..\\\\disapointed gibson...

 

 

cheers

The link doesn't work - can you provide a different one, please?

 

@ denis-brazil:

 

Now I found out what you did. You just copied your post http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/117750-traditional-2014-was-a-mistake/page__view__findpost__p__1731007 here and thus the truncated video link. The one in the quote will work, but...

 

This video is definitely insignificant. Practically all of them are. It is sad news but true: The audio parts of these videos are nothing but misleading potential buyers. In the linked one they state "clean" but it isn't. The only way of facilitating to roughly evaluate pickups is publishing the signal output from the guitar jack at defined cable capacitance and subsequent input load. This would allow for feeding the signal into an amp you own. Given they also publish exact data about strings brand and make, and the most important adjustments like string heights, pickup heights, polepiece adjustments if applicable, and finally the pick used, you still won't know anything about the exact string attacks.

 

A valid comparison of several pickups through playing is absolutely - I repeat: absolutely - impossible. Even using the same guitar, new strings, waiting about three weeks until the strings have settled with pickups and setup, and direct recording is of no help. No player can play two identical attacks within her/his entire life. You either would have to do measurements giving absolute readings but no useful audio signal, or do your own tests of packages consisting of guitar, strings, setup, picks, and pickups.

 

Trying a certain pickup on a certain guitar may give a limited impression how it may transduce string sound, but it will never tell you the very truth about its sound in another guitar. Moreover, any change of pickup height will take the strings time to settle with the altered magnetic field - several days to several weeks. Replacing a pickup with one of a different build, let alone reversed magnet polarity, will cause a severe change in string pull, and as magnetically hard items strings take a long time to adapt.

 

This all has nothing to do with deliberate cheating. Achieving a steady state of tone takes time - at least two weeks after restringing without any adjustment except keeping in tune. I talk facts here, resulting from over 35 years of experience with currently 33 instruments using magnetic pickups, and several dozens more of bandmates and pals during 37 years (I started setting up guitars before I began to play myself).

 

As Pippy said, it is about doing your homework. Most of us here did that before buying, and despite of that, there still may lurk surprises. I can assure you, all of my instruments got more stable and better with time.

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Evaluating pups and which is better or not is impossible over the internet. Sound quality over the internet just isn't enough to begin to get a "feel" for what they really sound like.

 

However, even if it is impossible in person, one thing that CAN be done is for an individual to describe differences, and then a person who is familiar with one of the types being evaluated can get an idea what to expect.

 

Unfortunately, I can offer no help. I have not actually done a lot of humbucker swaps and evaluated differences.

 

One thing you might do, is try and describe what you DON'T like about the '59 pups, describe what pups you like better, and hope someone with experience in these pups knows which direction you want to go in.

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I do find it surprising that you dislike the 59 Tribute pickups, I have a guitar fitted with 57 & 57+ pickups, one with "just" 57's and a Trad fitted with the 59 Tributes and in my humble opinion the 59 Tributes are the nearest to how PAF's sound and, again in my opinion the best pickups Gibson have used short of buying a re-issue.

Regarding buying new pickups I think it's a bit of a lottery, your not going to know what they sound like on your guitar until you have handed over your money and fitted them and then, of course, if you don't like them it's to late.

The other thing you should bare in mind is the future re sale value of your guitar. I have a friend who deals in expensive guitars (usually vintage) and he advised me that as soon as you change the pickups in a guitar you render it virtually worthless, even if you put the original pickups back in the damage is done because of the none original soldering. If a guitar doesn't suit you it's far better to change if for one that does.

But it's your guitar, and your money so your choice.

 

 

Good luck,

Ian

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The other thing you should bare in mind is the future re sale value of your guitar. I have a friend who deals in expensive guitars (usually vintage) and he advised me that as soon as you change the pickups in a guitar you render it virtually worthless, even if you put the original pickups back in the damage is done because of the none original soldering.

 

Good luck,

Ian

This only applies to "vintage" guitars with highly desirable pickups. Even then, a vintage guitar with original pickups included is worth closer to if they haven't been permanently separated.

 

With modern guitars, pup swaps have virtually no effect on re-sale, regardless if they are "upgraded". It's highly doubtful a Gibson with '59 pups or '57 classics will bring more or less money in the future if they are "re-soldered".

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guys i do apreciate all the replies. first, my english sucks! so im limited to explain myself; well, i do habe a std sg with 57 pups, and a superdot epiphone, fadded wif 490 and 498 gibson pickups. You guys think eould be a good idea change the traditional pickups for the 498 and 490?

i have another question: anybody already tried the super 74 pickups from gibson?

btw, the ocean blue are no longer, like mine...

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One of the rare useful comparisons. In particular, the note on the tonal characteristics of the ash body is creditable. [thumbup]

 

There are three 498T here and two '57 Classic Pluses. I never played a guitar with the DiMarzio AT-1, Seymour Duncan TB-5 Custom and EMG Select pickups. My few experiences with the Seymour Duncan TB-4 are not well-grounded.

 

The Gibson 498T is the winner for me in all applications. Probably this is because it emphasizes the midrange scooped by the guitar and thus helps to even out the overall sonic response.

 

My personal numbers 2 and 3 depend on amplification and playing style. Partly the Gibson '57 Classic Plus is #2 and the EMG Select humbucker #3, partly vice versa.

 

My number 4 is the Seymour Duncan TB-4 JB, but I think the lows tend to be a bit muddy with this guitar. The more gain, the more the humbucker sound becomes blurred. To my feel the split position lacks treble.

 

Seymour Duncan TB-5 Custom and DiMarzio AT-1 seem dedicated to dark high-gain metal sounds with lots of fundamentals, some lower harmonics, little upper harmonics and less overall treble including attack sounds. All in all, I think I wouldn't want them in any guitar.

 

I don't know if this is the stock pickup, but the Schecter Super Rock seems to be designed for heavy metal tone, too.

 

Interesting is the remarkable note separation through any pickup. I think this is nicely supported by the guitar.

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Well...

 

I think, the role of the pickups is a bit overestimated. OK, they are important. But are they really that bad in Your guitar? Are You sure it cannot be cured by turning a few knobs on Your amp, and effects?

 

The other thing is: the room You play in. Is it an acoustically engineered environment? Let me tell You this: every time I take a guitar and one of my amps to my Dad's flat, I remark how much better they sound there than at home. It is because He invested a lot of work into making it a perfect environment for playing music. It is a major thing, makes a whole world of difference.

 

Don't give up on these pickups so easily. They might not be the source of Your problem.

 

Good luck... Bence

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alright mates. i got a few points here: pickups can be not so important, acusticaly is important, etc

 

but, how you guys explain that guobaon interrupted th, cancell, this pup production? why????

btw, anybody here lnows the output numbers of 59 tribute? id to know to compare, but nobody knows it...

 

cheers

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I replaced the '59s in my '14 Traditional with Pearly Gates. Very warm, deep tones. Loved it but wasn't exactly what I was looking for. So I replaced them with a '57 Classic in the neck and a '57 + in the bridge. Slightly lighter tones than the Pearly Gates but still not exactly what I was looking for.

 

Then I saw the electronics cavity of a 50's LP and saw that my factory wiring looked nothing like that. So, I decided to go one step further in making my Traditional a true Traditional. I yanked out all of the factory electronics and wired it to 50's spec. Braided wires, PIO caps, and CTS pots. Changing the wiring, specifically to the 50's style, along with the other component changes really altered the tone... to the better, much more than I initially thought.

 

Boom! I now have the sound I was looking for.

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most humbucker pickups have a row of adjusting screws on them. once you think you have the pickup height set, you can always turn up the screw poles in the pickup to make it hotter if you want.

maybe try to adjust the pickup up and down, then try adjusting the individual poles to see if that will get a tone you like

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Just read in another topic about buying a guitar unseen:

 

dont get me wrong mate, but to buy a guitar without spend at least 2 hours trying it is the same that get marry with a girl that you never touched....

Thats your post!

So, am I right assuming that you spent 2 hours trying it?

When you tested your guitar at the store before buying it, what amp did you play it through?

Did it sound good at the store?

I don't get it who cheated you?

 

I think I told you that once and I even posted one of those videos you like so much of some asian guys (if I remember right) playing a 14 Trad and getting some sweet ballsy tones out of them.

I don't know if you remember it but I own one myself, like I told you last time.

And the only reason I could think of that could make those pickups sound thin and without balls is that they are defective.

I had a defective bridge pickup in mine, it shorted out, what basicaly means that sometimes only one coil of the humbucker was working or something like that I am no pickup expert.

Try to measure the resistance of your pickups with all controls on your guitar on 10 they should read something between 7,7 and 8.

Don't get worried if it is a tiny bit more or less thats normal, but do worry if your reading goes up and down between for example: 7,6 and then drops to 3,4 and then up again. Or if it on 3,4 and doesn't move.

If that's the case that pickup is defective, do like I did contact Gibson and ask for a replacement if you can fix it yourself.

Or ask to send your guitar to your nearest Gibson repair center.

And this only if you bought it from an authorized dealer, if not NO WARRANTY!

If your resistance readings are cool, use the knobs on your guitar and amp to get the desired tone.

And don't expect your 15 watt's Vox to sound like a 100 watt Marshall, I love Vox amps by the way.

And I think that amp with the 59 Tributes should get a pretty decent and sweet ballsy britt rock tone.

Maybe it's time for a new amp, or have you ever connected another speaker to that amp?

I gues it's 1x12, maybe you need 2x12, or more?

Those pickups you have are very versatile, I am by far not the best guitar player but I can get from Bob Marley, Fleetwood, and Zeppelin, Black Sabbath over to AC/DC, Guns'n'Roses and yes even some Mastodon, Darkthrone and Morbid Angel.

And that talking about overdriven and distorted, because there is a lot more on my clean channel, and this pickups clean up very well to.

Good luck finding your tone.

 

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My post was just based on my bad experience .. but it was interesting counterpoint ....

as the author of another post I had to ask someone to bring me a guitar from us..didnt tested it ... so it was an advice based on empiricism. who cheated me? gibson. I trusted a famous brand around the world. I already had a sg, and it was exactly as I expected. to a les paul, traditional, over 2000 bucks, I expected more.

But what is the problem I do not like the guitar? I get the impression that you want to defend the gibson. how do you explain to me the fact that pickups have stopped being manufactured? It was launched with the status of being the top .... and only in 3 years then disappear from the market? even the color blue ocean wasnt kept ... forgive me but the feeling I have is that it is an error recognition ... so the title ever get the feeling you've Been cheated .... thank anyway..i do remember the video Asians playing the guitar ... the other day someone wrote something very right here: you can not rely on tones of videos from the internet .... i am new in the business and have a lot to learn. ..but that any studio sounds better than this traditrash 2014 I can guarantee ... that the value of the output? no one knows ... I just wanted to believe that if I put a super 1974 humbucker guitar that would sound true, a real lespaul, like steve jones used to play ...

 

cheers mate.

 

 

 

Just read in another topic about buying a guitar unseen:

 

dont get me wrong mate, but to buy a guitar without spend at least 2 hours trying it is the same that get marry with a girl that you never touched....

Thats your post!

So, am I right assuming that you spent 2 hours trying it?

When you tested your guitar at the store before buying it, what amp did you play it through?

Did it sound good at the store?

I don't get it who cheated you?

 

I think I told you that once and I even posted one of those videos you like so much of some asian guys (if I remember right) playing a 14 Trad and getting some sweet ballsy tones out of them.

I don't know if you remember it but I own one myself, like I told you last time.

And the only reason I could think of that could make those pickups sound thin and without balls is that they are defective.

I had a defective bridge pickup in mine, it shorted out, what basicaly means that sometimes only one coil of the humbucker was working or something like that I am no pickup expert.

Try to measure the resistance of your pickups with all controls on your guitar on 10 they should read something between 7,7 and 8.

Don't get worried if it is a tiny bit more or less thats normal, but do worry if your reading goes up and down between for example: 7,6 and then drops to 3,4 and then up again. Or if it on 3,4 and doesn't move.

If that's the case that pickup is defective, do like I did contact Gibson and ask for a replacement if you can fix it yourself.

Or ask to send your guitar to your nearest Gibson repair center.

And this only if you bought it from an authorized dealer, if not NO WARRANTY!

If your resistance readings are cool, use the knobs on your guitar and amp to get the desired tone.

And don't expect your 15 watt's Vox to sound like a 100 watt Marshall, I love Vox amps by the way.

And I think that amp with the 59 Tributes should get a pretty decent and sweet ballsy britt rock tone.

Maybe it's time for a new amp, or have you ever connected another speaker to that amp?

I gues it's 1x12, maybe you need 2x12, or more?

Those pickups you have are very versatile, I am by far not the best guitar player but I can get from Bob Marley, Fleetwood, and Zeppelin, Black Sabbath over to AC/DC, Guns'n'Roses and yes even some Mastodon, Darkthrone and Morbid Angel.

And that talking about overdriven and distorted, because there is a lot more on my clean channel, and this pickups clean up very well to.

Good luck finding your tone.

 

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So you remember those asian guys, pshhhh... Don't tell it to nobody but the truth is they build those fake blue Traditionals with glued together 7ender pickups.

Thats why your Traditional sounds not like a real Les Paul.

 

And the resistance, who knows?

Well I do, why?

Because I measured it!

 

I don't wan't to defend Gibson, just wanted to save YOU some money.

 

But hey, what do i know with my Traditrash!

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One can never know what marketing ideas are behind giving up the '59 Tribute humbuckers. Perhaps they were too close to original '59 LP tones, and they decided to sort them out just for that. They were never offered as aftermarket parts, too.

 

I don't know them in person, but it is very likely that there's a remarkable difference compared to all the other Gibson humbuckers. In contrary to the now typical rule, genuine '59 LPs often have bridge pickups "cooler" than their neck pickups because pickups weren't selected then. Apart from being a sacrilege burning several hundred-thousand dollars, nobody can exchange them with each other since the bridge pickup's cable is too short to match neck pickup wiring requirements.

 

Gibson often discontinued gear in the past, in most cases forever. This applies to all the "tarback" humbuckers including those of the L6-S, later named L6-S Custom. The Dirty Fingers pickups are rare exceptions.

 

Take a look at other brands and their usually short-lived pickups. Very few were ever rebuilt later, and in many cases just for another short period. Fender Lace Sensor or, more recently, the simply fantastic SCN pickups, Ibanez Super 88 - all gone. The Ibanez Super 80 "Flying Fingers" had a short revival two years ago. To my taste they are among the best pickups ever made and rather versatile with TriSound switches. Featuring two slug coils, three ceramic magnets, rather low (!) inductance and DC resistance, they are same time extremely hot and quite bright. They are so hot that the single and parallel coil levels are higher than that of most humbuckers while sounding even brighter than typical Fender single coil pickups.

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Well it's too bad you don't like the 59 Tribs. If you do a search on them you'll find that you are in the minority (ie, most people really like them and I've heard rumors that the reason they aren't in the Trad anymore is because they've moved them over to Custom Shop usage). But, taste (and tone) is totally subjective so it is what it is. My only complaint with my 2016 Trad was that they went back to the 57/57+ combo, which, btw, I do like, but just not as much as the 59 Tribs in my 2014 Trad. In fact, I just yanked the 57s out of my 2016 and replaced them with some Tyson Tone Labs TTL-1 vintage style PAFs that are more like the 59 Tribs (actually they are even more PAF-like IMO, so you'd probably hate them).

 

Anyway, if you weren't in Brazil (you are, right?) I'd offer to trade you the 57s out of my 2016 for your 59 Tribs.

 

As for tone-hunting and pickup buying... well, there's literally so many options out there you've just gotta do the homework yourself. Figure out what it is you're after (obviously not PAF, sounds like you're more of a high-output pickup guy) and go listen to those. Ultimately you just have to take the plunge and buy something and give it a try. Good luck.

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...who cheated me? gibson...

How, EXACTLY, did Gibson cheat you?

 

YOU bought a guitar which YOU had never played and discovered YOU didn't like how it sounded.

YOU can't seem to get a good, classic / heavy blues/rock sound out of a set of p'ups which are held in very high regard by practically all the rest of the Gibson players who have them.

 

Unless the p'ups are faulty then I think we can work out for ourselves where the problem lies.

 

Pip.

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My post was just based on my bad experience .. but it was interesting counterpoint ....

as the author of another post I had to ask someone to bring me a guitar from us..didnt tested it ... so it was an advice based on empiricism. who cheated me? gibson. I trusted a famous brand around the world. I already had a sg, and it was exactly as I expected. to a les paul, traditional, over 2000 bucks, I expected more.

But what is the problem I do not like the guitar? I get the impression that you want to defend the gibson. how do you explain to me the fact that pickups have stopped being manufactured? It was launched with the status of being the top .... and only in 3 years then disappear from the market? even the color blue ocean wasnt kept ... forgive me but the feeling I have is that it is an error recognition ... so the title ever get the feeling you've Been cheated .... thank anyway..i do remember the video Asians playing the guitar ... the other day someone wrote something very right here: you can not rely on tones of videos from the internet .... i am new in the business and have a lot to learn. ..but that any studio sounds better than this traditrash 2014 I can guarantee ... that the value of the output? no one knows ... I just wanted to believe that if I put a super 1974 humbucker guitar that would sound true, a real lespaul, like steve jones used to play ...

 

cheers mate.

 

Denis,

I believe the Les Paul Steve Jones used to play was a Les Paul Custom, and if you've ever played one you'd realise the it's a completely different sounding guitar nothing like how most people consider a "classic" Les Paul sound.

I also believe that a "Steve Jones sound" would be achievable with almost any electric guitar given plenty of distortion.

 

I think, to say you've been cheated is a little bit strong, you weren't cheated, you bought the wrong guitar for your needs. It's a bit like buying a motor companies sports car then complaining that it doesn't seat 7 people and doesn't do 50 mpg, you weren't cheated, you bought the wrong product.

 

You should never buy a guitar without trying it yourself, I always play several of the same model until I find one that I like because each one is a little different.

With regard to buying new pickups, that really is a lottery because you can only listen to them via the internet which is far from accurate and even then they will almost certainly sound different when fitted to your guitar.

 

Also Denis, you haven't mentioned what guitar players you like to sound like with the exception of Steve Jones, you haven't mentioned what amp and pedals your using which is of massive importance to the overall sound (possibly more so than the guitars pickups).

 

No one on here is having a go at you, I think everyone's trying to help you and save you some money, so give everyone the information they need to make a judgment based on what it is your looking for, there are some very experienced people here (far more so than me) who will help you.

 

Ian

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