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Is this a 1973 ES-335 or 1976?


Markblues
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Fellow guitar players,

Can anybody tell me what the likely year of this guitar is and does it look original? I love playing it as you can see from the link but I've been told a few different years, Sold as a 76' a friend insists its 73. I'm only interested as a matter of fact, I'm certainly not going to sell her :)

Would appreciate your time on this

Best

Mark

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nuc7u4bRSpM

 

 

 

www.markhussey.com

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Mark,

 

The guitar dater project website dates the guitar to the year 1970, built in Kalamazoo, Michigan, if that serial number is Impressed into back of headstock or printed on a label in the sound hole/f-hole.

 

If however the serial number is ink-stamped or simply on a decal unto back of headstock, then all they know is that the guitar was made prior to 1977.

 

Quite a mystery!!

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The guitar dater project website...

I don't understand why so many people seem to use that site as their reference guide. It's notoriously unreliable, and (no surprise to me) they're wrong again here.

 

As most people know, Gibson's numbering system was a mess around the late 60's and into the 70's, with numbers being duplicated and records disorganized.

 

Mark, if the guitar has a "Made In USA" stamp below the serial number, then it is indeed from the 1970's (and 1973 to 1975 is about as specific as it's going to get). If there's no "Made In USA" stamp, then it dates to 1968.

 

More info here: http://www.guitarhq.com/gibson.html#serial

 

Anyway, great job on Limehouse Blues! [thumbup]

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I prefaced my remarks regarding the guitar dater project website quite honestly, (with certain provisos as a matter of fact), Jim.

 

There is no need to dish out the disdain, sir.

 

We are all here to help each other out, last I checked.

:unsure:

Apologies if I offended you, sparquelito. My disdain is for that website (not for you), and the fact that it seems to be the default source for the (great) majority of people who post here, whether regulars or not. It's frustrating to repeatedly see their erroneous information disseminated.

 

I'm not sure I understand where you "prefaced" your remarks or added any provisos that would have suggested that the information might have been unreliable. At any rate, please accept my apologies.

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It's all good.

I didn't mean to create any drama.

 

And you are right, I did not exactly preface my remarks regarding the guitar dater project website so much as I cloaked my advice with 'if the serial number is stamped into the wood, it's one thing, versus it being on a sticker or ink stamped'. So my apologies there.

 

To the topic;

The guitar dater project website is just one resource that is available to the guitar researcher, this much is true.

 

There is also Fjestad's Blue Book series.

eBay can be helpful, as is CraigsList.

Other web forums and specialty websites can be a treasure trove of information (but, as you pointed out) misinformation and/or disinformation.

 

In the end, years and years of personal experience with guitars can be the best resource there is.

 

I am a moderator on two other guitar websites, and my goals there are to never put out any bad or incorrect information.

 

My general advice from axecentral, re; resources

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It's all good.

I didn't mean to create any drama.

 

And you are right, I did not exactly preface my remarks regarding the guitar dater project website so much as I cloaked my advice with 'if the serial number is stamped into the wood, it's one thing, versus it being on a sticker or ink stamped'. So my apologies there.

 

To the topic;

The guitar dater project website is just one resource that is available to the guitar researcher, this much is true.

 

There is also Fjestad's Blue Book series.

eBay can be helpful, as is CraigsList.

Other web forums and specialty websites can be a treasure trove of information (but, as you pointed out) misinformation and/or disinformation.

 

In the end, years and years of personal experience with guitars can be the best resource there is.

 

I am a moderator on two other guitar websites, and my goals there are to never put out any bad or incorrect information.

 

My general advice from axecentral, re; resources

I suppose blue books are fine for ballpark value info (although I tend to avoid them, personally, and they can be very misleading even in that endeavor), but are notoriously unreliable and error-prone when it comes to the finer points of identifying and dating vintage instruments.

 

ebay (completed auctions) is certainly a good source for determining values, but not for accuracy of guitar identification or dating. Craigslist is definitely not valuable for gathering reliable information, except in cases where you can learn about values by verifying what something sold for (and even that is going to be difficult to do in many cases).

 

Anybody can start a guitar blog, and that means very little in terms of reliability of information. Enthusiasm does not equate with expertise. Trust has to be earned, as far as I'm concerned, and that begins with taking the time to research and learn.

 

When it comes to accuracy, good books (by serious researchers) are your best bet. There are of course a variety that cover specific brands as well as general guides like those by George Gruhn.

 

As for websites and forums, yes, you have to be careful about believing what you're reading. It always comes back to either doing careful research yourself, or relying only on those who have done so.

 

Websites that have uploaded information from serious books are the ones that I tend to trust (although new research is always taking place, and information sometimes needs updating).

 

Although I have encountered an occasional mistake there, I would strongly recommend this as the best place to go on the web: http://guitarhq.com/

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I suppose blue books are fine for ballpark value info (although I tend to avoid them, personally, and they can be very misleading even in that endeavor), but are notoriously unreliable and error-prone when it comes to the finer points of identifying and dating vintage instruments.

 

ebay (completed auctions) is certainly a good source for determining values, but not for accuracy of guitar identification or dating. Craigslist is definitely not valuable for gathering reliable information, except in cases where you can learn about values by verifying what something sold for (and even that is going to be difficult to do in many cases).

 

Anybody can start a guitar blog, and that means very little in terms of reliability of information. Enthusiasm does not equate with expertise. Trust has to be earned, as far as I'm concerned, and that begins with taking the time to research and learn.

 

When it comes to accuracy, good books (by serious researchers) are your best bet. There are of course a variety that cover specific brands as well as general guides like those by George Gruhn.

 

As for websites and forums, yes, you have to be careful about believing what you're reading. It always comes back to either doing careful research yourself, or relying only on those who have done so.

 

Websites that have uploaded information from serious books are the ones that I tend to trust (although new research is always taking place, and information sometimes needs updating).

 

Although I have encountered an occasional mistake there, I would strongly recommend this as the best place to go on the web: http://guitarhq.com/

 

 

Just to clarify, Jim;

 

I'm not a blogger.

 

I'm a moderator on that quoted website (and one other) and the owners of a family of websites asked we moderators to package some of our lengthier discourse into what they call 'blogs'.

I personally couldn't give a $$hit what they call it, as long as web visitors get quality advice and information.

 

The truth matters to me.

Good science matters to me, as I am a man of science.

 

I have only been playing guitar since the early 1970's, have only been in bands since 1975 or so, and have only owned (and sold and traded away) 50 guitars or less.

 

I have only played live and onstage in a band, in front of audiences large and small, around 200 times or less over the past 30 years.

I get it;

I'm a noob and a novice in some people's eyes.

 

But I do consider my guitar experience to be adequate to the task, that of responding to Markblues's original posting.

 

Your helpful advice in this matter is greatly appreciated, and I look forward to any advice you may offer in the future, sir.

 

:mellow:

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You're nearly exactly as experienced as I in terms of years playing, etc. You're no noob, and I never suggested that you were.

 

Bottom line... In the context of this thread (and the many other threads like it), I'm simply interested in accuracy. I've seen an awful lot of erroneous information posted in this forum over the years. When I correct people, it's nothing personal.

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