kidblast Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 they will never admit to it, they are way to busy lining their treasuries with personal wealth while the toting the PC line. just like the idiots over here in DC right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Ahh man... Yeah I saw this today too... Only too similar to the London attacks... And indeed I passed through London at that time as I did every day.. Luckily I missed the explosion (within a matter of minutes)... And then there was the busses... So I know how you feel... The bastards that do this are cowards of the highest order... Blowing innocent people up because they think they are going to heaven for it to be rewarded.. PATHETIC!!!!!! If they think its going to scare us, think again.. It will only bring us all together against them. This low life scum need to be hung up by their balls..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darling67 Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Your country is not insignificant. As is my hope for my own country, I wish for clear heads to prevail over there in the coming weeks, months... The people who perpetrate these atrocities want us to respond with knee-jerk reactions. But now is not the time for placing suspicion upon ALL "others", closing yourselves off, seeing this as "war". That's exactly what the terrorists want. My country's going into Iraq, and thus destabilizing that region, has done much to lead to these events—it gave rise to ISIS. I am not going to place ALL the blame on us, but I will say that—in light of what happened in Iraq and the aftermath—we have the luxury of recent past events to know that violence only begets more violence—and worse. I wish Belgium a quick recovery, and that it heals a stronger country that does not give way to fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darling67 Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 I just wanted to speak on this. Immediately after one of these sort of attacks it is human nature to want to seek revenge. I would warn to tread carefully, as you can find your nation bogged down into the longest war in your nation's history in a region that least needs to be destabalized. In fact, If not for the US/Iraq war, this attack may well have not occurred. My sentiments, exactly, JayinLA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 I think "we" need to recognize a clash of cultures that is historic in nature, and not just the sort that leads to the horrid attacks such as yesterday' in Brussels. (By the way, I really enjoyed the opportunity to do some sightseeing in Brussels when I was in western Europe in 1975 doing a series on U.S. agricultural trade there for a rural area daily newspaper) Rather than taking a "political" perspective on this, however, I think more understanding of the circumstances go back much further than what "we" call World War I when a lot of changes came to the "Middle East." The split between Shia and Sunni within "Islam" some 1400 years ago is IMHO much deeper than splits today between Eastern and Western "Christendom" or more in the west, "Roman Catholic" and "Protestant. There are both political and religious emotions behind that split that's again, IMHO, stronger than the split between Eastern and Western strains of Christianity. Now add to that the politics of "nations" in North Africa and the Middle East that never really matched the concept of "nation" in the sense most "Europeans" (I include all nations in the Western Hemisphere and the Antipodes in that) think of a "nation." Then look at the history of Islam sweeping through much of the southern and eastern Mediterranean and roughly a thousand years of various political-religious assaults on Europe that had been relatively successful with the Battle of Varna and the consequent fall of Constantinople. It wasn't until the Battle of Vienna in 1683 that Islamic/Ottoman expansion into Europe with its combination of Islamic law and political rule was halted. Bence could tell of Islamic expansion on that side of the Alps far better than I. Islamic courts held sway and although there were "Christian" and "Jewish" courts for those communities, they were held inferior to the Islamic - and regardless it was "religion" rather than a "national politic" that held sway as a concept of jurisprudence. Christians and Jews were, by any standard, second class citizens. Slavery was part of the religious-economic perception and tends to remain so, at least in religious thought. My contention is that the Islamic world view remains separated almost entirely by a chasm of a belief in a more theocratic and religious governance and, broadly, cultural mandates, as opposed to a more citizen-centered approach that "Western Europeans" emphasized through general culture from the time of Charles Martel forward, and in both eastern and western European cultures, in various revolutions and political upheavals that brought more of a philosophy that it is the people who rule along with their general culture. That latter means an ongoing evolution in European cultures, east and west, but a resistance to evolution in Islamic cultures. In short, while "we" have our political and cultural differences, "we" all see change in our own individual and group/national cultures as generally beneficial in the long term, while Islam tends to see change in individual and group/national cultures as not-good and of questionable morality under deity that may be resisted through violence with religious sanction. So... I think we're in for something of a sleigh ride; and frankly that the next 20-30 years will be increasingly a challenge on how the world meets a significant clash of cultural perspectives. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 My sentiments, exactly, JayinLA. ok. We know that its pointless to try to reason with a zealot. So what response is appropriate to terrorism in this case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pin Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 The influx (invasion?) of migrants into Europe is a joke. When you see them, they're 95% men. Gadaffi said Islam would take the West without a shot being fired. Meanwhile, your erstwhile leaders of the EU sign deal with Turkey which ensures not only are hordes of migrants keep coming but they will be added to by the illegals who will still come regardless plus another potential 30 million Turks on top. It is just ever so likely that in amongst such a crowd will be men and woman who have the training, knowledge and equipment to send many people to the deaths. Welcome to the new world order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4Hayden Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Live your life and keep a eye on them , they have hit here in the US of A too prayers for you awel 4H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayinLA Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 ok. We know that its pointless to try to reason with a zealot. So what response is appropriate to terrorism in this case? This is where everyone disagrees. I think it is simple. The Mossad in Isreal has set the presidence for what works. First of all they built a wall. Yes very politically incorrect in this age, but effective. I am not saying that every nation should have a wall, but the Chinese did it with great success, and so has Isreal. Brussells is the capital of the Euro Zone. The immigration issues that are the entirety of European news these days are being hammered out in Brussells. This was a hot target. The answer is to halt immigration for "refugees." When the battle of Britian was roaring, the people didn't pack up and leave, they grabbed their guns, took to the skies, the women worked in munitions factories, and said "Bring it on." 3rd. You don't get involved in large scale wars against an unknown enemy. There is no nation to target, no one to negotiate with or make attempts at deplomacy. Like Mossad, you form crack intelligance operations, find out who is going to try this ****, and take em out with small teams on the ground, not drone strikes that kill 60 innocent civilians to get one bad guy. All these answers are in our history, you just need to look at methods that have worked, and do likewise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 So what response is appropriate to terrorism in this case? I don't know. Hey, it's been 1 year, 8 months and 12 days since I've had a cigarette. Guess I no longer need a glass ashtray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 I've been to Belgium and to Brussels and it is a beautiful place. My heart goes out to you and your people and unfortunately none of us are insulated form this barbaric behaviour, and we are all fighting a common enemy. That is when governments realise we are actually at war! Political correctness is a form of behaviour control and is in fact censorship. Personally I intend to speak my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 I don't know. Hey, it's been 1 year, 8 months and 12 days since I've had a cigarette. Guess I no longer need a glass ashtray. Was that an "ahem" Scott? Congrats on resisting the urge to smoke for so long! Do you feel any better in yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 So sorry, this is horrible... The attack in Paris, A car bomb in Berlin and now this... Serian refugees my @ss... They are trying to penetrate the border of all western countries and they are succeeding... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hall Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Was that an "ahem" Scott? Congrats on resisting the urge to smoke for so long! Do you feel any better in yourself? Well done, Scott! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Very sorry to hear that happened in Brussels Awel. It's really terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Minor derail to answer the smoking question with all due apologies. I don't think I feel a bit better but the change would have been so gradual I would not have noticed. I can't tolerate the smell of smoke now. I let my daughter's boyfriend use my old '88 Blazer for a few weeks and the residual smoke smell is nauseating. I had no idea. No idea. This morning on the drive to work I pondered what ultimately drove me to quit. With each reason to quit, I had a smartass rebuttal. Until the moment of clarity when I realized I didn't want to die a slow death. A slow death. My wife died 9 weeks after the biopsy. She was lucky. With my luck, I would have a stroke, have both feet amputated, lose some fingers, and have to use one of those electric shaver things that go up against the hole in the throat...and then die of bladder cancer. Over the course of five years. F*** that noise. Sorry for the derail. Back to the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 I feel so sad and bitter about these acts of blind hate. I hope you and yours are safe, Awel. When a person is willing to kill themselves in order to do harm to others the only thing that can be done reduce it is to limit freedom for all. Makes me angry... “Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.” - Benjamin Franklin ... Or, instead of limiting the freedom, providing more access to means of self-defense to people, will increase security. That is a proven fact. There are excellent examples of functioning, well-regulated firearm policies around the world. Liberalization of firearm policy is long-long overdue in Europe. ... Bence. Just the opposite is true. I feel for you. Something like this is an attack on us all. I wish I knew how to stop the madness. Bob I subscribe completely to your words, Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 “Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.” - Benjamin Franklin[/i Precisely my point. I seem to be in the minority however. Seems most of my countrymen are perfectly fine with the Department of Homeland Security or the current efforts to force Apple to allow the government to Peep on my cell phone. We now have long obtrusive lines at the airport. In the United States we have a heavily armed citizenry and an even more heavily armed police force and still the attacks come. This is because Muslims who are willing to blow themselves up to create maximum damage can simply not be stopped. By the time you know where your target is the carnage has already been unleashed. The only thing that I think might actually work is to send about 300 to 400,000 United States troops into Syria to take over the entire country top to bottom. Completely occupy the ground and Oppress the citizens so that they have to ask permission to cross the street. But that sort of operation is incredibly expensive and logistically very difficult to pull off. No one in the United States is willing to commit to that sort of involvement. So instead we choose to take out a bomb factory or a high-profile terrorist to make a few headlines and show everyone that we are "fighting the war on terror". But hey, what do I know. Maybe creating the department of homeland security and supporting the Arab spring uprisings were a great idea and I'm just not seeing the big picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Precisely my point. I seem to be in the minority however. Seems most of my countrymen are perfectly fine with the Department of Homeland Security or the current efforts to force Apple to allow the government to Peep on my cell phone. We now have long obtrusive lines at the airport. In the United States we have a heavily armed citizenry and an even more heavily armed police force and still the attacks come. This is because Muslims who are willing to blow themselves up to create maximum damage can simply not be stopped. By the time you know where your target is the carnage has already been unleashed. The only thing that I think might actually work is to send about 300 to 400,000 United States troops into Syria to take over the entire country top to bottom. Completely occupy the ground and Oppress the citizens so that they have to ask permission to cross the street. But that sort of operation is incredibly expensive and logistically very difficult to pull off. No one in the United States is willing to commit to that sort of involvement. So instead we choose to take out a bomb factory or a high-profile terrorist to make a few headlines and show everyone that we are "fighting the war on terror". But hey, what do I know. Maybe creating the department of homeland security and supporting the Arab spring uprisings were a great idea and I'm just not seeing the big picture. Nature abhors a vacuum! Destabilise existing governments and you take a risk with what replaces it IMHO. When will they ever learn? Or do they even want to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 The problem with all this stuff is that there's a tendency amongst us "Europeans" and even our neighbors in China, Korea, Japan, etc., to see warfare as one with various size armies using various tactics and strategies to "win." But this isn't about defeating an enemy in combat, it's about changing a culture; and that's an entirely different game. One might make a case that the Romans changed the culture of much of "Britain," or similar sorts of invasions, but that took centuries and a cupla more invasions and even now there are variations of subcultures on that island. This is a matter of cultures that so far have deep divisions in their entire concepts of "civilization" at odds with generalized European and generalized Asian (Chinese, etc.) concepts of civilization. I fear that until there's a change in Islam that admits wholly to equal validity of perspective of other cultures, philosophies and even religions in general, the current difficulties will continue until long after all of us here are gone. One interesting quote from the Quran in translation may offer insight; the scholars expand on it through the years, but: "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book (Christians and Jews), until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 The problem with all this stuff is that there's a tendency amongst us "Europeans" and even our neighbors in China, Korea, Japan, etc., to see warfare as one with various size armies using various tactics and strategies to "win." But this isn't about defeating an enemy in combat, it's about changing a culture; and that's an entirely different game. One might make a case that the Romans changed the culture of much of "Britain," or similar sorts of invasions, but that took centuries and a cupla more invasions and even now there are variations of subcultures on that island. This is a matter of cultures that so far have deep divisions in their entire concepts of "civilization" at odds with generalized European and generalized Asian (Chinese, etc.) concepts of civilization. I fear that until there's a change in Islam that admits wholly to equal validity of perspective of other cultures, philosophies and even religions in general, the current difficulties will continue until long after all of us here are gone. One interesting quote from the Quran in translation may offer insight; the scholars expand on it through the years, but: "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book (Christians and Jews), until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." m Bloody medieval bulldust! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 "Demoralize the enemy, from within, by surprise, terror, sabotage, assassination! This is the war of the future!" (Adolf Hitler) And, it will continue to be, as long as there are ideologies, that support it. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saturn Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 I'm sorry too, awel, about what happened in your country today. Unfortunately it looks like this will be a rather regular occurrence around the world. Remember that video CB posted a few weeks ago? The one about 'The truth about popular music'? Well, I noticed that guy had some other 'truth about..." type videos up on his youtube channel. Some of them were very relevant to what's being discussed here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saturn Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 I'm sorry too, awel, about what happened in your country today. Unfortunately it looks like this will be a rather regular occurrence around the world. Remember that video CB posted a few weeks ago? The one about 'The truth about popular music'? Well, I noticed that guy had some other 'truth about..." type videos up on his youtube channel. Some of them were very relevant to what's being discussed here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Scales Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Just my observations, - The terrorism acts of this century draw some real lineage from the western response to the Russian occupation of Afghanistan a couple of decades earlier - and particularly the way the aftermath was handled. - Core to the role of government forces is to protect the 'elite' from their citizenry - the idealists wish to incite uprising of their people using acts to instil confidence, the leaders of countries suffering acts against them need to respond to maintain the confidence/control of their own people. - When watching documentaries (non-political) about Syria prior to all this, it seemed a nice enough place with people going about their lives with similar hopes and ambitions to me. Not a dark den of masses of people huddled on a daily basis to focus their thoughts and energise on terrorising those of different beliefs and in need of some oppression. Awesome effort on the smoking quitting KSD!! I don't smoke a lot but its probably time to stop altogether. I don't particularly like it and have never been addicted that I can tell - it just takes me back to pleasures of younger days in a strange sort of way - I think its some kind of freedom based motivation. Amazing now to visit city CBDs and see just the occasional smoker. I really think it could be completely gone within a generation or two, and would never have thought that 10 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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