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is this a fake les paul?

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Theres no argument too big that cant be solved with a Monty Python sketch :D

 

I do so love the Monty Python film The Life Of Brian, from which that video segment is lifted.

It was truly the best of all the Python movies.

 

(In my opinion. I mean, that's is just my opinion. I don't have any data or evidence to back that up, it's just how I feel about it, in relation to The Holy Grail and the Meaning Of Life, etc.)

 

So let's don't get into a dust-up over it, okay?

I'm just trying to get thru this evening.

 

And my good beers and all the whiskey are running low.

 

:unsure:

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Did anyone see a fake Gibson with fret nibs. The photos show fret nibs. People doing refret jobs of real Gibsons don't even replace the nibs because the added cost is too high, which makes it a valid excuse for a person selling a fake for them not having nibs on a used LP.

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I do so love the Monty Python film The Life Of Brian, from which that video segment is lifted.

It was truly the best of all the Python movies.

 

(In my opinion. I mean, that's is just my opinion. I don't have any data or evidence to back that up, it's just how I feel about it, in relation to The Holy Grail and the Meaning Of Life, etc.)

 

So let's don't get into a dust-up over it, okay?

I'm just trying to get thru this evening.

 

And my good beers and all the whiskey are running low.

 

:unsure:

On that we can definitely agree :)

 

And who you calling BIG NOSE :P

 

Probably one of my faves... He has a wife you know...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K8_jgiNqUc

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Lol. Oh its the meek ! Blessed are the meek ! I'm glad they're getting something cuz they gave a 'ell of a time.

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Lol. Well I don't think he'd be too keen you see, he's already got one !

Ahhh don't get me started. Lol.

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Lol. Well I don't think he'd be too keen you see, he's already got one !

Ahhh don't get me started. Lol.

Oh what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say Ni at will to old ladies.........

 

:)

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Guest Farnsbarns

The level of anger and animosity on display is astounding, in my objective opinion.

I am quite surprised at it all.

 

 

 

I don't think there's any anger or animosity. Perhaps some frustration on some parts but not anger or animosity. Let me try to help you see why.

 

 

We were all presented the same evidence, and we all had the opportunity to weigh-in on whether the Les Paul was fake or not.

Many of you rendered your opinion that the guitar was definitely, without a doubt, a genuine Les Paul, based upon the same evidence that I viewed.

 

I offered my opinion that the guitar should be considered a fake, based upon the same photographic evidence.

Further, I clarified exactly which bits and pieces on the guitar looked sketchy to me.

 

 

No, you didn't. You stated outright that it is fake.

 

Even further, I detailed the items of information that should be provided, if we are to truly determine whether the guitar is genuine or not.

 

 

No, you didn't. You suggested some things that would help YOU to come to a conclusion. In reality none of them would help at all.

 

 

 

 

AND I offered to apologize if, after the proper authenticating information was provided, and the guitar turned out to be the real deal and not a fake.

I think that is fair.

 

 

As above, none of that information would help one iota. I don't think it's fair. You've already stated it's fake so offering to apologise later is meaningless. You should have stated your concern, not that it was simply fake.

 

 

Even more important, it's fair and it is objective.

 

 

It wasn't objective, it was an outright statement of fact, worse, it was inaccurate.

 

 

 

Where does my attitude of 'assume it's a fake until determined to be otherwise'?

 

 

Saying that YOU would assume it's fake because YOU can't be sure with what you can see would have been correct. That's not what you did.

 

 

I have been playing guitar for well over 40 years.

I have been in and out bands, performing live for nearly that long.

I have held, played, owned, and fondled many genuine guitars, and I have personally examined many fake guitars.

I have been (and still am) a moderator on other guitar web forums.

People from all around the world have counted on me to be objective, fair, and analytical whenever they ask for a guitar vintage check, a guitar valuation, or a guitar authenticity confirmation.

 

 

That's a shame. Not trying to be rude but if you can't tell if this is real, work from serial numbers and make statements of fact where you later accept that you just don't know, you should't be appraising anything for anyone else.

 

 

The attitude of 'assume it's a fake until determined to be otherwise' is a sound and time-proven approach.

 

 

Only if you state that and not simply say it's fake. It has been determined to be otherwise because lots of people who know better have said so.

 

 

Moreover, it's the approach we should all advise to others whenever the authenticity of a given guitar is in question. (Which this one clearly was, from the get-go.)

 

It's different when somebody posts, "Yeah, NGD, I got this fantastic new (or used guitar)," and there is no implied doubt from the original poster regarding authenticity.

That said, we ALL have a responsibility in those rare cases when some poster presents, proudly, their new beauty, and something looks just a little off, to speak up and ask one or two questions.

 

[/Quote]

 

It is absolutely not your responsibility to state something is fake if you have no idea. Again, not being rude but we have more than enough evidence that you have no idea.

 

 

Note: The advent of internet markets like eBay and Craigslist have complicated this topic enormously.

More and more guitars are bought and sold (sight unseen) from and to perfect strangers.

The market is rife with fraudulent merchandise, and quite frankly, I do wish more of you would learn to be just a bit more jaded and skeptical.

 

There is no down side to it, after all.

[mellow]

 

I hope that helps you understand.

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People from all around the world have counted on me to be objective, fair, and analytical whenever they ask for a guitar vintage check, a guitar valuation, or a guitar authenticity confirmation.

 

 

 

You're really opening yourself up for some criticize there. You're unable to recognize genuine logos and ordinary truss rod cover screws yet you're giving out professional appraisals and authenticating vintage guitars?

 

I don't live that far from you. I look at and play 100 or so Gibson guitars a month and in all this time I have only found two that I know were fake. I'm left wondering if there really are a lot of fake Gibson's in North Alabama or if you have been mistakenly telling people their genuine Gibson guitars are fake.

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The level of anger and animosity on display is astounding, in my objective opinion.

I am quite surprised at it all.

 

Where does my attitude of 'assume it's a fake until determined to be otherwise'?

 

The attitude of 'assume it's a fake until determined to be otherwise' is a sound and time-proven approach.

 

 

Me personally, I have no animosity, and in truth, you are generally more likable...more so than a lot of folks around.

 

I think you have mistaken the reaction. It is surprise and disagreement of your methods, and the fact you are still calling this a fake that is the reaction you are seeing.

 

I don't think "assume it's fake until proven otherwise" is a fair and accurate approach. I prefer "don't assume anything until proven", or perhaps, "until I am sure", both because it is not making false conclusions, and it keeps an open mind to learn more, especially when there is far more collective knowledge than I have.

 

Perhaps you mean so say, "Don't buy until you know it's genuine"?

 

I would ask you to consider this: I think much of the reaction isn't just your false conclusion and correcting that, you have been shown evidence and reasons, and in effect, could be learning. If you look at it objectively, you would be correcting yourself. The surprise and reaction is that to spite the evidence and proof, the knowledge shared, you STILL defend your position.

 

Look past the conclusions that everyone has made, and the fact it's is opposition to yours. Look at the reasons presented and how they/we come to those conclusions.

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You're really opening yourself up for some criticize there. You're unable to recognize genuine logos and ordinary truss rod cover screws yet you're giving out professional appraisals and authenticating vintage guitars?

 

I don't live that far from you. I look at and play 100 or so Gibson guitars a month and in all this time I have only found two that I know were fake. I'm left wondering if there really are a lot of fake Gibson's in North Alabama or if you have been mistakenly telling people their genuine Gibson guitars are fake.

 

Bingo. . . . A sure fate when assuming every guitar is fake and evaluating with questionable knowledge. . . #-o

 

 

. . .

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delamination of the logo (which is what that is) is NOT uncommon.

 

the causes are often attributed to gases that are built up from long term storage in the case.

 

There are at least 5 if not more, key factors in determining a fake that have nothing to do with the logo.

 

but I digress....

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I don't think there's any anger or animosity....

 

Blah Blah Blah.

 

I hope that helps you understand.

Thank goodness someone managed to abbreviate the preceding morass.

 

No animosity whatsoever. Surprise and mild bewilderment? Yes.

 

Pip.

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Thank you all for the quality advice and for the elucidation on what you fine gentlemen believe would be best to 'help me understand'.

 

I do believe that you mean well, and I do sincerely appreciate that you have taken the time to try and steer me toward your way of seeing things.

 

That said, I must politely reject knee-jerk determination that the guitar in question is 'without a doubt genuine', based strictly upon the viewing of that jacked-up headstock logo.

Just because there are other unattractive, left-handed girls out there that turn out be superior drivers, that doesn't follow (in a scientific, logical train of thought) that ALL unattractive, left-handed girls will turn out to be superior drivers.

Or words to that effect.

 

As I stated before, I will apologize with all due humility if a photo of the serial number is provided, along with the other requested information, and all that evidence adds up to corroborate your knee-jerk decree that the guitar is genuine.

I will concede at the point, and only at that point, that you were right and I was wrong.

 

 

I DO apologize, at this juncture, to all those who I offended with my attitude of 'assume a guitar is fake until sufficient evidence is provided to conclude otherwise'.

It's MY way of operating, and clearly that modus operandi is not everyone's cup of tea.

I have found in my personal dealings and in my online endeavors, however, that it is the wise and prudent way to proceed.

 

Is it a jaded, and probably a bit cynical way of looking at things?

Yes.

 

But in the end, is there any harm in it?

Further, could it save somebody from being taken in and taken advantage of, dewy-eyed trusting souls that they may be?

I'll leave that for you to ponder.

 

 

Standing by, respectfully and politely, for the rest of the data and information to be provided.

Until then, I'll stand by my knee-jerk determination that the guitar is a fake.

 

[wink]

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Sparquelitos last stand🇺🇸

 

LOL !

that really did make me laugh out loud. you're alright Sparquelito. msp_thumbup.gif

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My last stand?

Oh no, sir.

 

The doctors say I have at least a few more years left on this earth.

 

I'm sure there will be many more windmills out there at which I may tilt.

:)

 

And we are going on six pages now, or quite soon anyway.

A most satisfying turn of events, truly.

[razz]

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That said, I must politely reject knee-jerk determination that the guitar in question is 'without a doubt genuine', based strictly upon the viewing of that jacked-up headstock logo.

 

 

Standing by, respectfully and politely, for the rest of the data and information to be provided.

Until then, I'll stand by my knee-jerk determination that the guitar is a fake.

 

[wink]

Well, here are two arguments I still have here:

 

1) you say "knee jerk" reaction, and state it's simply the logo that "we" make the determination on. I don't think anyone said that. YOU were the one who said it was fake based on the logo/checking alone. There is LOTS of evidence in just the headstock photo, and even more in the other photos that most of us who stated firmly it was real that our determinations are based on.

 

2) you determine the guitar is fake. Not "I don't know" but rather you say it's fake. So how about telling us why? What do YOU see and how are you making the determination it's a fake Gibson. Besides the logo. And besides your lack of evidence it's real, do you have ANY evidence in addition that you base your determination on?

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Well, here are two arguments I still have here:

 

1) you say "knee jerk" reaction, and state it's simply the logo that "we" make the determination on. I don't think anyone said that. YOU were the one who said it was fake based on the logo/checking alone. There is LOTS of evidence in just the headstock photo, and even more in the other photos that most of us who stated firmly it was real that our determinations are based on.

 

2) you determine the guitar is fake. Not "I don't know" but rather you say it's fake. So how about telling us why? What do YOU see and how are you making the determination it's a fake Gibson. Besides the logo. And besides your lack of evidence it's real, do you have ANY evidence in addition that you base your determination on?

 

 

I know it's a chore, but please go back and read the first few responses in this lengthy thread.

 

My judgement that it's a fake were based upon the jacked-up looking headstock logo,

the shabby, cheap-looking screws holding the truss-rod cover down,

and

the horrible fit and finish around the nut.

 

And I hasten to add that I will humbly apologize, if only a credible photo of the serial number can be provided by the original poster (corroborating the popular assertion that the guitar is a 1980's vintage LP, and therefore deserving of that jacked-up headstock logo appearance) along with the other items that I requested. I really will apologize, and admit that I am wrong.

If only that evidence would ever be provided, I will apologize for my heretic temerity.

 

Isn't it odd that, despite my numerous requests for these photos and evidence, no such photos or evidence are forthcoming?

These photos and evidence that will conclusively prove what a great and genuine Gibson guitar it is that we are debating?

Odd indeed.

 

Say, are we up to six pages yet?

 

[woot]

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