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Jbones

Auto Tune??

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Folks,

 

My intent is not to start an argument but I just can't believe what Gibson has done with this auto tune crap. LP would be rolling over in his grave seeing this. What are your thoughts? Me, If you can't tune a guitar maybe you should play the keys.

 

Thoughts??

 

Jp

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Some love it, some don't! At least, this year's Gibson's give you a choice, unlike last year's,

where everything but the CS "Vintage" reissues, seem to come with the Robo tuners. So, just buy

the versions that don't include the "auto-tune" machine heads. Easy Peasy! [biggrin]

 

CB

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My intent is not to start an argument.

 

I don't believe you.

LP would be rolling over in his grave seeing this. What are your thoughts?

 

Robot Les Pauls were around before Les died. He never expressed any negative thoughts on them and was rather famous for his fondness of high tech.

 

Me, If you can't tune a guitar maybe you should play the keys.

 

I think you would have to be profoundly stupid to think that self tuning guitars are bought by people who can't tune a guitar.

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Internet trolls use the same phrase to describe the Gibson GForce and MinETune systems in an attempt to cast them in the same unfavorable light as autotune.

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Gibson GForce and MinETune systems are a brilliant idea [thumbup]

The younger folks will take to it eventually, the elderly not so much.

Society as a whole seems to resist change, as nostalgia is a big seller right now.

Everyone plugs into an electronic tuner or sticks that hemangioma on the headstock.

 

Final thought : If you yourself can not tune each string by ear only, maybe you should play the Triangle...

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Ha ha ha... yes, and smart phones are ridiculous, the internet is a waste of time, electric cars? Never. Self-driving cars - don't be crazy.

Let me stay under my rock.

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Ha ha ha... yes, and smart phones are ridiculous, the internet is a waste of time, electric cars? Never. Self-driving cars - don't be crazy.

Let me stay under my rock.

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I tuned my guitars by ear for the best part of 25 years. Then I lost my ability to pitch (long story). So I started using the tuner in my signal processor.

 

Last year got a guitar with the G-Force tuners. I didn't know if if I'd keep the tuners or not. Ive had it 8 months now without a problem. Its quick & accurate.

 

So do I have your approval to keep playing guitar? I've been playing for 45 years. Does that make a difference?

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I must confess that my dislike for the auto-tuning/G-force device is purely visceral and aesthetic;

 

I am opposed to any foreign object on the headstock of a guitar.

It just bothers me, and I can't explain it much beyond that.

 

Seeing an artist playing with the clip-on tuner left on the headstock, for instance.

It distracts me greatly.

 

The bulk of the auto-tuning mechanism just plain looks wrong somehow.

 

And in the end, I don't mind tuning my guitar by hand.

It's sort of like either happily mowing your lawn, or paying somebody else to mow your lawn.

I like mowing my lawn, so I do it myself.

 

I'm weird, so sue me.

:unsure:

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I have never used the min-e-tune. It does change the aesthetics BUT it is on the back of the headstock so under normal playing conditions it isn't seen anyways. I use a TU-2 to tune my guitar. It takes up precious space in my small pedalboard. If I had a guitar with a gforce and it worked, I would have room for another pedal. I don't think I would buy one and install it on my current guitar but I see the value in it and would use it if I get a new guitar with one.

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.... I just can't believe what Gibson has done with this auto tune crap. LP would be rolling over in his grave seeing this. What are your thoughts? Me, If you can't tune a guitar maybe you should play the keys. Thoughts?? ...

 

The system has never been called auto tune - originally it was called self-tuning Robot Guitar. You seem to be misunderstanding whats going on. Les Paul was a technophile - his work with multitrack recording and specially built Les Paul Recording variants alone should be enough proof. I bought a 2008 Robot SG LTD that same year and Les was still alive - he never made any negative statements about the tech. And BTW, the tech has been around for decades. My 2008 Robot is still working great - changing tunings (as in alternate tunings) is easy, fast and accurate.

 

This tech was never targeting players who can't manually tune a guitar. Since the beginning in 2007, it has always targeted working players who wanted the convenience of self-tuning and the ability to change to alternate tunings quickly without the need to keep extra guitars tuned to specific tunings.

 

I would say Gibson made a mistake last year (2015) by putting the tech on just about every available model. Not everybody wants/likes the tech and I think the move hurt Gibson's 2015 sales volume.

 

 

.

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I will admit that I've never tried a guitar that has one (properly setup or otherwise) but the negative cross talk on them has me dubious.

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I played many at shops. Especially last year and I was less than impressed most of the time. It seemed to me that some (2015 LP Special DCs) they were slipping tuning and needed to be re-tuned too often.

Also, unless you knew how to operate them it was annoying when someone left them in an open tuning.

 

So when I bought my LP last year, it was despite the G-Force tuners. But having bought one, it seemed silly to just change tuners without giving it a proper chance. Anyway, I still have it and its behaved well. I have grown to like it.

 

Rob Chapman had an interesting point of view on these. He said at first he didnt like them, but then reasoned that we all use electronic tuners without complaint. So why not go the extra step & let it tune for us?

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I think it's something Gibson has really got right for a change.

 

See, a "typical" Gibson guitar is fairly expensive, made to play well, and last a lifetime. As in, not disposable. And that typically means being able to replace parts as they break, or as a player sees fit for whatever reason.

 

Finally after many years, Gibson has "robo-tuners" that are drop-in replacements that can be swapped in or out, as they break or fail, or at the player's whim. And fairly cheap.

 

That makes folks mad?

 

And "they" say Gibson doesn't offer a choice? You know every place I have seen the 2015's for sale, the place also has walls of displays with tuners on it, and most more than one option for any given guitar. It isn't hard to put two and two together to figure out if you have 1500 bucks or so in your pocket, you can have any tuners you want on any guitar you might want to buy.

 

But it's worth saying again, the technology Gibson is offering here is they can be swapped out or changed ANY TIME you want, and easily replaced with new ones, just like ANY other tuner.

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Gibson GForce and MinETune systems are a brilliant idea [thumbup]

The younger folks will take to it eventually, the elderly not so much.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And in the end, I don't mind tuning my guitar by hand.

 

 

I'm weird, so sue me.

:unsure:

I think a lot of it is that for folks that have been playing for many years, are USED to tuning and have certain rituals or techniques for doing it. Just as you don't learn to play the guitar without learning to tune it, you don't get GOOD at playing guitar without getting good at tuning it.

 

Maybe not so much an age thing, but an experience thing. Although, older folks tend to be put off by stuff they have to learn that isn't on the agenda.

 

I don't know if I would be called old, but I am kinda in that boat. My personal dis-like is I don't know how I could get used to pushing a button and hoping for the best as it ain't what I am used to, and if by chance something went wrong, what I would do about it. At least for guitars I might use for performing.

 

But for a COUCH guitar, might be kinda fun.

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It's just another option for tuning. It bothered me that it wasn't presented as an "option" last year, but the idea of it isn't a problem for me. The comments on real guitar players learning how to tune their guitars is kind of odd to me. I've seen very few guitarists play live without a tuner at the head of their pedal board or between their guitar and amp. What amount of skill is involved in turning a tuning peg by hand compared to a machine doing it? No disrespect meant towards opposing view points, but the music matters way more than anything else.

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Im a huge fan. Being a lazy sod it saves a lot of hassle.

 

At gigs it has been a godsend. All my guitars go out of tune, (pubs are a nightmare, air con, doors opening, radiators, hot weather etc. Plus I do thrash the strings a bit!). Rather than using a tuner and mucking around its just volume down and one or two strums.Indoors I don't need to unzip the bag, find the tuner, plug it in. Its just one or two strums. As for re-stringing, I hate it! But with this its basically a few wraps,use the locking nut and press a few buttons

 

The look? Its behind the neck, who notices? I never do.

 

The curious thing is that those resisting changes are playing a guitar that has changed an awful lot over the years. For me innovations such as volume boosts, coli splits etc are to be welcomed.

 

Bob

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I'm not a fan of the MinEtune/GForce, I'll straight up admit it. Partially because of aesthetics (which admittedly are purely subjective)... to me it's ugly as homemade sin and it just looks like an eye sore on a Les Paul. I'm not a professional musician (just a hobbyist guitarist for the past 31 years) and getting a genuine Les Paul was/is a big indulgence for me because, frankly, I don't need it... but I did always want one (or two ;))... so when it came time to buy a Lester the last thing I wanted was one that had such a non-traditional aesthetic eye sore.

 

BUT... that said... when I went out shopping for my first LP in 2015 I tried several (at least half a dozen) 2014s and 2015s with either the MinEtune or GForce and not one of them ever worked properly in the store. I could get it to tune initially, so it wasn't a matter of me not understanding how the thing works (it's not rocket science)... but none of them would ever hold tune for more than a few strums. It was maddening. Maybe it was old strings, maybe the strings hadn't been installed correctly as the system requires, maybe it was some other variable, but regardless it didn't take long to become completely frustrated and disenfranchised with the contraption. Add to that the fact that Gibson made it non-optional on the 2015s and it just made shopping for a new LP way more challenging that it needed to be. I eventually ended up getting a new 2014 Trad that was left over in stock at my local Sam Ash (w/ regular Klusons)... admittedly not just because of the tuners (which, as has been elaborated on can be swapped out relatively easily)... but also because of the "other" 2015 changes (wide neck, brass nut, headstock sig, hologram, metal flake paint) which just were not what I wanted when I was finally able to buy an LP after lusting for one for 30+ years.

 

Frankly, had Gibson done in 2015 what they've done in 2016 (ie, offering two distinct lines of guitars, one for the traditionalist and one for the progressive-ist) all of this vitriol and hate for both the MinEtune/GForce and the other changes could have been massively minimized if not avoided totally and completely. Gibson made their own bed in this regard and it's no surprise that it came back and bit them in the rear... and I honestly believe that the MinEtune/GForce suffered for it reputation-wise because it was seen as part of Gibson's lack of understanding of their existing customer base by trying to jam all these changes down their customers' throats. Had Gibson done in 2015 what they did in 2016 all the MinEtune/GForce vitriol we see (from me included) would have been minimal because even if you didn't like it, meh, so what... buy one without it. Choice is good. Gibson screwed the pooch in this regard... just no getting around it.

 

That said... I'm not opposed to the idea of an etuner (heck I use a Snark)... and I'm not necessarily opposed to it being attached to the headstock... but, at least to me, the MinEtune/GForce unit itself just isn't aesthetically ready to be a prime time player in this regard. If/when the can make each individual machine head its own separate unit (with a button to tune like now or better yet, bluetooth capability that will allow me to control it with a remote or a smartphone)... I'll be interested (as I said, I'm not opposed to the concept, just the application of the concept in this particular case). Once they get the technology to that point, I'm interested. Until then, I just don't want what looks like a remote control from a 1990s CD player on the back of my LP's headstock. Sorry. It's just ugly, even if it does work (which is clearly still up for debate... some find it very reliable, others not so much... which just speaks to the fact that they've not got all the bugs ironed out yet).

 

Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox now. :D

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