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MDT

Hi all...question about vintage ES-335TD

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Somewhat of an intro...been playing for a number of years. Mostly Fender (American Strat and Tele)...I've wrestled with 2 Les Pauls over the years but have sold them. My dad just gave me his dot ES-335TD. This was purchased new after his first year of college. He is convinced that was in 59-60. From what I can tell and have been able to research, I'm thinking more like 60-61 (prob 61?). He is the only owner until just two days ago, he wanted me to have or because it's just been under his bed in the original Lifton case all of these years. I play for our church worship band and he wanted me to have it. I do have memories of this guitar from when I was a very little kid (I'm 50 now)...so I am extremely jazzed about this. I emailed some pics to Gibson in hopes they could help, but haven't heard back yet, so I thought I'd ask you guys (and input from Gibson folks too). Any thoughts? Thanks in advance for any info you can provide!!

 

B064BBA2-24D3-4FB7-A59F-58DA37F91EBE_zpsx8kwjl1h.jpg

 

 

 

E179B500-B130-4F26-AC9D-541967805366_zpscv0y7fkn.jpg

 

 

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first of all, what Jim said.

second of all, be glad he kicked out a few extra bucks to get a 335 as opposed to a 330.

 

muuuuch more desireable [and of course valuable]

thing looks in superb condition, congrats and be sure to thank him again.

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Also, Orange label which started in 1961. Should also say "union made" or something to that effect on the bottom that we can't see in the photo.

 

The knobs put it after 1959, while the double ring Kluson tuners put it earlier rather than later.

 

Now, I didn't look any of this stuff up, just going by memory which is sometimes wrong, so don't take it as gospel, but rather info that COULD be confirmed if you weren't sure. Should be easy to prove this is 1961.

 

Having said all that, one thing about 1961 you don't get with say, 1959 or 1960, is a FABULOUS neck. Is it wonderful? Should be on the thin side, not "baseball bat" in the least, and likely well sculpted with good shoulder to it giving it a little meat while still keeping it real thin and easy to play.

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Also, Orange label which started in 1961. Should also say "union made" or something to that effect on the bottom that we can't see in the photo.

 

The knobs put it after 1959, while the double ring Kluson tuners put it earlier rather than later.

 

Now, I didn't look any of this stuff up, just going by memory which is sometimes wrong, so don't take it as gospel, but rather info that COULD be confirmed if you weren't sure. Should be easy to prove this is 1961.

 

Having said all that, one thing about 1961 you don't get with say, 1959 or 1960, is a FABULOUS neck. Is it wonderful? Should be on the thin side, not "baseball bat" in the least, and likely well sculpted with good shoulder to it giving it a little meat while still keeping it real thin and easy to play.

 

 

Thanks all so much for your help. And the neck IS great! Being used to Fenders, this is much more "playable" for me. I used it for the first time in practice last night...holy cow..the pickups are insane. They growl ( even for worship music)!

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Thanks all so much for your help. And the neck IS great! Being used to Fenders, this is much more "playable" for me. I used it for the first time in practice last night...holy cow..the pickups are insane. They growl ( even for worship music)!

Ah yes, those PICKUPS!!

 

They MIGHT be PAF's, but should likely be "decal'd" patent# pups. But regardless of what the decal on the back is, that is the ONLY difference.

 

The PAF pup went through a few minor changes, and the decal'd Pat# pups went through a LOT of changes. The latest PAF decal pups are identical in every way to the first decal Pat# pups. 1961 puts this right there- not late enough for the pups to be any different than PAF's, barely early enough where it MIGHT have PAF decals on them, but very likely to have decals to have patent numbers on them.

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Also, Orange label which started in 1961.

 

? No, orange label started in 1955.

 

Should also say "union made" or something to that effect on the bottom that we can't see in the photo.

 

No, the "Union Made" label didn't start until 1964.

 

The knobs put it after 1959

 

No, the knobs put it no earlier than mid-1960.

 

 

Now, I didn't look any of this stuff up, just going by memory which is sometimes wrong, so don't take it as gospel

 

Probably better to look things up first. [smile]

 

 

Having said all that, one thing about 1961 you don't get with say, 1959 or 1960, is a FABULOUS neck.

 

Well, a LOT of people (including me) would disagree with you. The thinner necks were thought to be "faster" back in the day, but many players eventually came to regret those changes.

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? No, orange label started in 1955.

 

 

 

No, the "Union Made" label didn't start until 1964.

 

 

 

No, the knobs put it no earlier than mid-1960.

 

 

 

 

Probably better to look things up first. [smile]

 

 

 

 

Well, a LOT of people (including me) would disagree with you. The thinner necks were thought to be "faster" back in the day, but many players eventually came to regret those changes.

Now, you are just being contrary.

 

The whole REASON I stated "going by memory" was a disclaimer meaning I could be wrong, which there is NOTHING wrong with. It gives people like you a chance to correct me, OR just open the conversation. I am sure what I wrote didn't come across as proof or claims of anything.

 

But just to say, as my comment about being contrary, "mid 1960" is after 1959. It would make more sense for you to word that in support of my statement, rather than as a "correction" to it.

 

But besides all that and the exact facts (which you CAN correct if you like...you are often not just right, but come up with great info), lets talk about this neck deal: I don't think you are giving it enough credit, or putting it in a fair perspective. Keep in mind, it wasn't too long after the necks got thin on Gibsons that the nut width changed to that narrow stuff most don't like. And most guitar made from then until now, have these "fast" narrow neck shapes. (That does NOT mean there aren't some good feeling fatter ones). And also, while neck shapes are ALL OVER the place now and since then, just because it's fat or thin don't mean it's good because it is either. They USED to take great care in how they were shaped to make them FEEL good, even as they thought they had to be fat to be stable. So, from around 1961 to about 1966 or whenever Gibson changed the nut width, that's a small window for the "modern" neck shape, which is thin, done by hand, and great feeling that Gibson is known for, and has become known for.

 

That neck is pretty cool, and I don't think many really pay that much attention to the fact that while we take the "60's" neck shapes for granted, the originals aren't that easy to come by, and how good they really were and for such a short period.

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It all good fellas... You guys have corroborated pretty much what my dad thought (or close)...but were able to fill in the blanks he couldn't.

I mentioned in the initial post that I've had two Les Pauls (one studio and one Traditional Pro II). I ended up selling both because of the fatter necks. I just felt like playing them was a constant wrestling match. My Tele and Strat never put up a fight like that. This neck on the 335 is very playable for me. I'm really digging it!

 

Now, I get to take it to my guitar guy to have him set it up and let him drool a bit :)

 

 

 

Edit: what would the prevailing thoughts be in terms of insuring this? I'm guessing a separate rider on my homeowners policy? Value?

Edited by MDT

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Jim is right on.

 

there are reasons '59 Gibsons are so revered and command higher prices than slightly later models.

most players prefer the mid '59-mid '60 necks because they're shaped right in between a fat '58-early '59 neck and a thin mid '60-'61 shape.

not everyone prefers that shape, but the majority of people do.

also, many feel the late 50's PAF's are a bit better sounding that the early 60's PAF's..

 

the vast majority of '61 humbucker equipped Gibsons still have labeled PAF's, in '62 you'll begin to see either 2 PAF's or a combination of labeled PAF's or patent number, or a pair of patent numbers.

 

on Gibsons w/gold plated parts, PAF's sometimes appear as late as '66 though it's rare. there were less gold plated parts guitars made and as result PAF's can appear later.

for example, I have a '64 L-5 w/a pair of original PAF's

 

no offense to Stein, but why even post things you're not sure of?

not really helping anyone.

 

I'd suggest contacting George Gruhn @ Gruhn guitars for an appraisal.

 

enjoy that guitar MDT, you've got a great one.

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Edit: what would the prevailing thoughts be in terms of insuring this? I'm guessing a separate rider on my homeowners policy? Value?

 

A rider on your homeowners policy will have very limited coverage, and will generally exclude any "professional use" or gigging.

 

I have a specific and dedicated insurance policy for my guitars through Ellis Hershmann at Heritage Insurance Services.

http://www.musicins.com/

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The whole REASON I stated "going by memory" was a disclaimer meaning I could be wrong, which there is NOTHING wrong with.

The problem is that people (often visitors who have no particular desire to remain here and participate for very long) sometimes take the first answers given to them, and do not return to the discussion, thus believing (and potentially spreading) false information. I've seen it happen numerous times. Not the end of the world, of course, but I just think it's unfortunate when it happens. And it's unnecessary. The points on which I corrected you are pretty basic, and easily referenced either online (the site I usually recommend is here: http://www.guitarhq.com/gibson.html ), or in a decent reference book such as Gruhn's Guide or Duchossoir's "Gibson Electrics".

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Edit: what would the prevailing thoughts be in terms of insuring this? I'm guessing a separate rider on my homeowners policy? Value?

 

For this info and literally everything else there is to know about this particular guitar, I would reach out to Charlie Gelber at OK Guitars and http://www.es-335.org/ he has the most knowledge of this era of these guitars of possibly anyone, including the people at Gibson and dare I say it...George Gruhn.

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Wow this looks in fantastic condition as well, what a find!!! I have a 1962 but with fitted bigsby and refret which brings the value down a little... does me just fine though! I cant post a pic of mine, seems as a new poster I have used all my upload quota already :(

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