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LarryUK

Brexit 2. The road to nowhere?

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As before. No political arguments. Well. We've voted out. To the bulk of people it will make no difference. But what is your non argumental view?

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Well as I have said before it's not a decision I think the man in the street should have to make but it's done and we have done it. Like so many things in history there is more to it and in the forthcoming weeks we will see the tentacles of Brexit move into the EU. I'm sure the UK will not be the only Briexit.

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I think we'll be stuffed for a few years at least.

The 'Remain' campaign thought they would win and didn't have a 'Plan B' and the 'Leave' campaign didn't even have a 'Plan A'.

 

The leader of the Conservatives and our Prime Minister, David Cameron, has announced that he is to stand down and might well be succeeded by Coco the Clown Boris Johnston.

The leader of the opposition, Jeremy Corbyn, is hated by most of his own party's MPs and has just sacked one of his Shadow Cabinet members. Ten further Shadow Cabinet ministers "with more expected to follow" have since resigned their positions. In the coming few weeks Corbyn will almost certainly face a vote of no confidence.

The leader of UKIP?...................well, erm.......................

 

Pip.

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Man, be thankful the man in the street got to vote.

 

I can bet almost anything us Swedes will NEVER get to vote for an exit.

 

I could argue this, that and the other, but I hope I haven't overstepped the moderator's rule here.

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Whist I really do appreciate the democratic principle at stake I also understand that the right to vote on such a referendum is very much a double-edged sword.

The electorate, in general, has such a woefully inadequate understanding of what the EU does giving them/us the right to vote on the matter in hand was extremely unwise.

 

IMHO, of course.

 

Pip.

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Without pretending to know the first thing about 'Brexit', and the politics thereof, other than that its a lame sounding wanky-word and that apparently the 'Yes' vote won, thus bugger-up-erizing our stockmarket for a while, ...my (default) prediction is that the rich will have their bets nicely hedged and emerge richer in the short to mid term, the poor will unwittingly shoot themselves in the foot and ensure the gap ever-widens, and the cost of just about everything will rise.

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I think maybe we're pushing the envelope here. I'd LIKE to be able to discuss it, but not sure the admin feels the same way...

 

Unwittingly, that's Sweden in a nutshell, btw.

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I have no stake in the game but I do want to see Great Britain be successful and prosper.

I believe that once the dust settles it will get along quite nicely. I think 60 minutes did a story on Norway and how they refused to join and it's worked out well for them. They still trade with the EU but never bought into the you're doomed if you don't bill of goods being sold.

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I am happy as a human can be for other humans. Mistake or best thing ever done, either way your country called for a vote and your people went out and did it, and your government lived by it within a couple hours.

 

We are the cradle of liberty, great beacon of Democracy, bringing it to the world whether they want it or not and that will never happen here.

 

Our sets are 20% UK music today, so we'll give them hecks for you guys.

 

Two of em Bad Company, and one Badfinger. England = Bad.

 

rct

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The exit vote reaffirms the notion of sovereign borders, self governance, and a national pride in one's heritage.

 

Every thing about the EU stank of 'the new world order', in my opinion, a world government where just a few elites are calling all the shots for everyone else.

Combine that with a purposefully-destructive policy of allowing radical, third-world mongrels to invade (thus polluting the gene pool and soaking up un-earned benefits), and you have somebody else's idea of a socialist utopia.

 

The United States is faced with a similar decision this November.

Here's hoping that the American voters also vote for sovereign borders, pride in the American heritage, and a government of the people, by the people, and for the people.

 

[thumbup]

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The exit vote reaffirms the notion of sovereign borders, self governance, and a national pride in one's heritage.

Absolute rubbish.

 

Populist Kool-Aid for the pig-sh!t thick to swallow.

 

Pip.

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This is a map of the UK.

 

The bit outlined in red is Scotland - as distinct from England. This is the land of my birth.

This is one of the Countries which makes up the UK.

In Scotland there were 32 regions which took part in the Brexit vote.

Those regions which voted to leave the EU are coloured blue. Those who wished to remain in the EU are coloured yellow.

Have a good look at the map;

 

Scotland%20doesnt%20really%20want%20to%20go..._zpso0ndozh3.jpg

 

That's the whole of the country. All of it. Not one region wished to leave the EU.

 

"Sovereign borders, self-governance and a national pride in one's heritage" didn't do Scotland much good, did it?

 

Pip.

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The scare mongering is not over. Even though it cant make any difference now. Except perhaps to make the 'leave' voters doubt themselves. Its a 'throwing your toys out of the pram action'.

 

I feel more encouraged by the couple of politicians (I'm not naming them) who, despite supporting 'remain' now show commitment to making this work.

 

If the ship is gone and your in a lifeboat, i'd rather be with someone who will row than someone bellyaching about who was right & wrong.

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"Sovereign borders, self-governance and a national pride in one's heritage" didn't do Scotland much good, did it?

 

Pip.

 

Wow, I had no idea about the map of votes being like that. Not being a keen follower of what passes for 'news',

I'm inclined to disagree though Pip, it kind of looks like Scotland (also the land of my birth) actually ticked the 3 'boxes' you noted in italics in a way.

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I feel more encouraged by the couple of politicians (I'm not naming them) who, despite supporting 'remain' now show commitment to making this work.

If the ship is gone and your in a lifeboat, i'd rather be with someone who will row than someone bellyaching about who was right & wrong.

Oh, I fully agree that we have to make this situation work. There's no alternative; is there?

 

At the same time I think we should be under no illusions as to the complete lack of preparedness for what will happen now.

 

There has been talk in the media of the possibility of a second referendum and there has been talk of easing the 'leave' bit to be phased in gradually over the next year or two.

But I've been listening to the noises coming out of Brussels and there is not much evidence for either of these possibilities to be received warmly. Quite the reverse, in fact.

As far as the main players in the EU are concerned we are now regarded as being "Out of the EU" and that's pretty much an end to it.

 

If at some future time we decide that it was all a bit of a silly mistake and we'd like to get back in, please, then I'm pretty sure we will be faced with a far stricter set of restrictions and quotas which we would have to accept compared to some of the more favourable concessions which we had enjoyed until very recently.

 

Pip.

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I'm inclined to disagree though Pip, it kind of looks like Scotland (also the land of my birth) actually ticked the 3 'boxes' you noted in italics in a way.

Yes; they might be deemed to show the issues of borders, self-governance and an awareness of a nation.

But my point was that because the majority of England voted to leave the wishes of the Scottish electorate were, in effect, vetoed.

Scotland voted overwhelmingly to remain within the EU but are now out nonetheless.

 

It now looks very likely that for a second referendum on the subject of Scottish Independence to be offered to the people of Scotland will only be a matter of time and, if there is a vote, it is almost a certainty that the motion will be carried. One of the hinge-pins for Scotland voting to remain as part of the UK last time was a promise made by David Cameron that the UK would remain as part of the EU. This promise, obviously, has now been broken and there seems to be much backing for Nicola Sturgeon (First Minister for Scotland and leader of the Scottish Nationalist Party*) to call such a referendum.

 

The whole thing is a shambles.

 

Pip.

 

* At the 2015 General Election out of the 59 Parliamentary seats in Scotland to be contested the SNP won a staggering 56.

The other three main political parties - Conservative, Liberal and Labour - have just one seat each in Scotland.

 

P.S. I meant to say that this....

...my (default) prediction is that the rich will have their bets nicely hedged and emerge richer in the short to mid term, the poor will unwittingly shoot themselves in the foot and ensure the gap ever-widens, and the cost of just about everything will rise...

...is a 'given', Scales.

[thumbup]

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Well, IMHO, I always opt for having a souvenir nation w/ Allies vs. trying to form a union w/o having any real need or ties to do so. For us in the US, I agree that we will are just a few years behind the mess that EU is in with the choices that have been made. So many are going broke in EU (Greece, Italy, France, Britain, Spain and Ireland) and USA is still charging full steam ahead in that direction too. Only thing in our favor is that we COULD turn it around with some heavy adjustment in spending as our economy is so massive. If we don't, ehhhh, we'll be defaulting on debt in a few years.

 

Much of all the stay or go, from what I've read, is hype to scare. I would have vote leave and I don't consider myself in the "uninformed" with facts/figures and I understand Pippy, what you are talking about. I know I spend WAY too much time reading all the info/facts on too many topics and views. We have people that are very uninformed voting here every election and only care about the program or what they consider they are "owed" to continue. Often so they don't have to struggle with work like some of the rest of us supporting them.

 

Aster

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I think a lot of people behind the closed doors of the voting booth thought" well hell, go ahead and vote, my vote won't count but this is what I want"

May turn out to be a "careful what you wish for because it may come true" scenario.

 

SInce it is a democracy, if the remain crowd grows to a majority after a bit of re-thinking, why not do what we did a few years back in California? Do a recall election and put an actor in office?

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I'm afraid that many Scots wanted to have their cake and eat it.

 

Scotland is a net beneficiary of both the UK and the EU but, after Thursday, it cannot now be a member of both unions. A majority of Scots recently voted to stay in the UK because they put their own financial interests above any desire to be an entirely independent, self-governing nation. My guess is that they'll elect to do the same again, if asked.

 

The failed EU project is anti-democratic. People who voted leave did so in the knowledge there might be a short term hit but their motivation was to preserve the British way of life (democracy, self government and control of immigration) for generations to come. The overall UK population (including the 38% of "leave" voters in Scotland) has in fact put values, patriotism and freedom before self-interest.

 

Here's one of our European Parliamentarians and Brexit leader on a rare visit to Brussels challenging its approach to democracy:

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dranqFntNgo

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The overall UK population...has in fact put values, patriotism and freedom before self-interest...

That's one way of looking at it, Alan.

Equally it could be argued that 51.9% of the UK population has put their own ideas of what constitutes the 'British Way of Life', their own perceived values and their own self-interests before those of their country.

 

Pip.

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Scotland%20doesnt%20really%20want%20to%20go..._zpso0ndozh3.jpg

 

That's the whole of the country. All of it. Not one region wished to leave the EU.

 

"Sovereign borders, self-governance and a national pride in one's heritage" didn't do Scotland much good, did it?

 

Pip.

 

I had not realised the vote was so stark in Scotland.

When Scotland voted to stay as part of the uk, I was delighted. If this means regret now (and it seems that way) I understand. On this occasion I cant blame the Scots for feeling sidelined. [sad]

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Ohh man... I still don't know quite what to think about it all....

 

I do think one thing though, all of this is going to have the main effect of stirring up our internal politics and that of the EU in general... and I don't think that's a bad thing...

 

Already our Prime Minister has resigned.. And other MPs are probably on the way out... Theres talk of a general election...

 

Who knows whats going to happen...

 

The government don't even actually have to follow the EU vote by law... If they really decide that we are better in they can do what they want... And that will depend on whos in power at that time which at the moment is pretty uncertain.

 

 

And not being political..... I think that soon we could live in a world with a possibility of Trump and Boris Johnson leading... That's just a weird looking world to me... (imagine a heated debate between those two [rolleyes] )....

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And not being political..... I think that soon we could live in a world with a possibility of Trump and Boris Johnson leading... That's just a weird looking world to me... (imagine a heated debate between those two [rolleyes] )....

 

Trump would probably dominate until the moment Boris swiped his syrup.

 

(what the hell is that limey talking about?) :P

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Trump would probably dominate until the moment Boris swiped his syrup.

 

(what the hell is that limey talking about?) :P

Lol.. they both have ridiculous hair :) (and mouths)

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