Buc McMaster Posted July 8, 2016 Posted July 8, 2016 Since picking up my new Hummingbird last week I've been thinking I might like to grow a pair and take to an open mic night someday, once I'm back up to speed. I am not a fan of UST pickups as I don't want anything between the saddle and the bridge...........call me silly if you like. I have used them in the past and certainly there are some fine pickups of this design on the market. But I'm thinking a sound hole pickup is what I might like. I've owned and used the Sunrise pickup. It was a good one and it has been very popular with a lot of pro players. They went missing for a few years but it seems they are back in action and available again. They were bulky, heavy pickups that added noticeable weight to the guitar. But I stumbled across this one by K&K Sound, the Double Helix, that looks very interesting. K&K is no slouch when it comes to acoustic pickups, noted for their UST designs, this their first entry into the sound hole pickup market. Anyone yet had a chance to hear one of these? This could be installed and easily removed without modification of any kind to the instrument..........perfect. K&K Double Helix At the bottom left of this page is an "audio only" player that features this pickup run straight into a computer for recording with no signal processing added. This is a pretty pure representation of what this unit sounds like. The videos there have some processing of the signal.
MorrisrownSal Posted July 8, 2016 Posted July 8, 2016 I have the K&K Pure Mini in my J50. I use an Orchid Muting DI. It is simple and sounds great. I also have an Anthem in my new Gibson CW. It sounds amazing, but I have only used it at home,and am not likely to take it to the bars. Both are under the bridge inside the guitar.
sbpark Posted July 8, 2016 Posted July 8, 2016 Since picking up my new Hummingbird last week I've been thinking I might like to grow a pair and take to an open mic night someday, once I'm back up to speed. I am not a fan of UST pickups as I don't want anything between the saddle and the bridge...........call me silly if you like. I have used them in the past and certainly there are some fine pickups of this design on the market. But I'm thinking a sound hole pickup is what I might like. I've owned and used the Sunrise pickup. It was a good one and it has been very popular with a lot of pro players. They went missing for a few years but it seems they are back in action and available again. They were bulky, heavy pickups that added noticeable weight to the guitar. But I stumbled across this one by K&K Sound, the Double Helix, that looks very interesting. K&K is no slouch when it comes to acoustic pickups, noted for their UST designs, this their first entry into the sound hole pickup market. Anyone yet had a chance to hear one of these? This could be installed and easily removed without modification of any kind to the instrument..........perfect. K&K Double Helix At the bottom left of this page is an "audio only" player that features this pickup run straight into a computer for recording with no signal processing added. This is a pretty pure representation of what this unit sounds like. The videos there have some processing of the signal. I agree with you and CANNOT stand UST's and I won't use one. Pulled it out of my J45 after giving it a good year of trying it with different saddle materials, preamps/DI's, modeling/Aura stuff from Fishman, etc. Just not my thing at all, and agree that the guitar sounds better unplugged with that UST element removed between the saddle and bridge. I don't play in a band these days and it's just me and I'm mustering up the courage to do solo open mics. I settled on the LR Baggs Lyric. I also have an LR Baggs M80 sound hole pickup. I was running everything through a SWR California Blonde (was the amp I was using with a band, but have since sold it because it's was a heavy beast and isn't really necessary for the open mic thing when ll you really need to do is show up with your guitar, and maybe a nice DI if you choose to bring it.) Personally the Lyric is my favorite simply because it's the most natural sounding of all that I've tried, which makes sense since it's actually a microphone, and not a pickup. But because it's a microphone it does have it's drawbacks. Its going to be more prone to feedback, but if you're just doing singer/songwriter/open-mic solo type stuff this shouldn't be an issue. It also lacks a little in the low end, but you can add some back with a nice Preamp/DI (I use a Radial PZ-Pre (have used the LR Baggs Venu, PADI, Fishman Spectrum Aura and Radial J48 in the past and like the Radial PZ Pre the best). Sound hole pickups army second favorite but still sound too artificial for me. The added benefit of the Lyric is it's also SUPER lightweight and attaches with double sided tape so it's easily removed and isn't permanent, doesn't need to be superglued, etc. Same thing with sound hole pickups as well. I put the Lyric in three different guitars (J45, D28, 000-15M) and it sounded great in all of them. If I was playing with a full band though, I'd be more inclined to go the sound hole route.
sbpark Posted July 8, 2016 Posted July 8, 2016 I have the K&K Pure Mini in my J50. I use an Orchid Muting DI. It is simple and sounds great. I also have an Anthem in my new Gibson CW. It sounds amazing, but I have only used it at home,and am not likely to take it to the bars. Both are under the bridge inside the guitar. The anthem has both a UST and under the bridge mic. The Lyric is just mounted under the bridge (or wherever you want to put it) with no UST.
BluesKing777 Posted July 9, 2016 Posted July 9, 2016 Gee, you really got the bug back, Buc! I went through an electric thing recently and spent a small fortune on soundhole pickups - owned the Seymour Duncan Woody s/h p/u for many years and it sounds pretty good, but because it was cheap I assumed all the other more expensive would be better, SO.... Started with the Fishman Neo-D soundhole - passive so no battery problems, but sounds good in a pickup kind of way and because of no battery and preamp, NO level! Blackjack Fishman s/h - like an old DeArmond - passive humbucker loud but dirty sound. Fishman Rare Earth Blend (with attached mic). Love the mic, unsure of the pickup, but need a preamp or mixer I reckon to do some eq'ing. Sometimes it would be easier to take a Tele! Only way to get a nice acoustic sound at an open mic is with the mic (open mic it is called!), preferably a nice Shure but probably some budget thing they found to make you sound awful! If you are playing solo, it will be fine - if you use the pickup, you will need an amp! The link to the new K&K Double Helix sounds to me, like the Fishman Neo-D s/h p/u. Now, I have had joy with u/s pickups with my Fishman Aura Spectrum DI over the years, so I bought the truly ultimate live guitar - my Martin D18e Retro with onboard Aura system built on recording of the 1937 Martin D18. Plug and play beauty - I have NOT used it in the heat of battle, so to speak, but would feel comfortable with it through my little mixer and out to wherever. Only catch is the Spectrum box has a DI, where the Aura D18 does NOT...... BluesKing777.
jdd707 Posted July 9, 2016 Posted July 9, 2016 I'm partial to the K & K Minnie ...... I don't care much for the under saddle PUs and I really don't like to have a battery inside my guitars. Sooner or later, the battery is probably gonna leak and leave acid inside. The Minnie sounds true to me.
sbpark Posted July 9, 2016 Posted July 9, 2016 I'm partial to the K & K Minnie ...... I don't care much for the under saddle PUs and I really don't like to have a battery inside my guitars. Sooner or later, the battery is probably gonna leak and leave acid inside. The Minnie sounds true to me. Really? Have any data or proof to back up that statement?
jdd707 Posted July 9, 2016 Posted July 9, 2016 Really? Have any data or proof to back up that statement? Which statement? No matter, I don't have proof for any of them since we are really talking about subjective matters here: "I'm partial" "I don't care much" " The Minnie sounds true to me" ..... all subjective statements. And we were ask for an opinion ..... and opinions are worth what you pay for them. As to the acid issue, that's just my fear based on numerous flashlights and electronic devices that I've trashed over the years.
sbpark Posted July 9, 2016 Posted July 9, 2016 Which statement? No matter, I don't have proof for any of them since we are really talking about subjective matters here: "I'm partial" "I don't care much" " The Minnie sounds true to me" ..... all subjective statements. And we were ask for an opinion ..... and opinions are worth what you pay for them. As to the acid issue, that's just my fear based on numerous flashlights and electronic devices that I've trashed over the years. I want to see the proof where all these batteries are leaking and destroying guitars. Never seen it happen. Perceived fear and things actually happening are two different things. Sure, I've seen a car battery leak in an old VW bus and fall out and eat a hole into a 7-11 parking lot once, but a 9v volt leaking and destroying a guitar? Nope. I'm guessing you have a better chance of winning the lottery or getting struck by lightening.
jdd707 Posted July 9, 2016 Posted July 9, 2016 I want to see the proof where all these batteries are leaking and destroying guitars. Never seen it happen. Perceived fear and things actually happening are two different things. Sure, I've seen a car battery leak in an old VW bus and fall out and eat a hole into a 7-11 parking lot once, but a 9v volt leaking and destroying a guitar? Nope. I'm guessing you have a better chance of winning the lottery or getting struck by lightening. Point well made sir. Now if you'll excuse me, I've got to go buy a lottery ticket.
sbpark Posted July 9, 2016 Posted July 9, 2016 Point well made sir. Now if you'll excuse me, I've got to go buy a lottery ticket. Now you're talkin'!
BluesKing777 Posted July 10, 2016 Posted July 10, 2016 Speaking of batteries, instead of pickups >>>>>>>>>>>> Though I really like the sound of the attached mic in the Fishman Rare Earth Blend I mentioned above but the battery is on the wrong side! What ninny designed that? The unit is a bit large to slip under tightened strings easily and a lot of people leave the lead hanging down the front of the guitar or tape it along the binding. All fine like that - change the battery occasionally as required. But if you install the lead to the endpin permanently as directed? Battery change involves taking the pickup out and flipping it, unless you are very deft fingered - better leave enough play in the lead. Now, simple, brilliant design, strangely from the same company I think - the battery compartment on my Martin Aura guitar is a thing of beauty compared to the s/h Rare Earth silliness - just slot the 9 volt in to the compartment, nice fit, no need of connecting any leads as the contacts are part of the compartment. To remove, open lid, slide out battery. Which all caused me to buy a battery checker! I was sold a few that were flatter than, no can't say that... But it is a handy unit! No mucking about installing the Rare Earth to find the battery flat. Slip the battery out of the Aura Martin to check status, just because I can! Also check battery on the garage remote, smoke alarms, and a host of others AND it also tests light bulbs! Quick check on the preamps if running battery instead of power lead - Fishman Spectrum, Fishman Platinum Pro EQ etc. etc. BluesKing777.
MR GIBS Posted July 10, 2016 Posted July 10, 2016 I also hate UST pickups. Once I had an L.R.Baggs M1 active on the sound hole of my J200. I did not like the sound of it and I threw it out one day. I did not try other sound hole acoustic guitar pickups, but I guess that I would not like their sound because of their "telephone" nuance... I have K&K Triniti Mini system installed in all of my expensive guitars. Sounds good to me. K&K Triniti By the way I love your new Hummingbird, Buc! Cheers!
EuroAussie Posted July 10, 2016 Posted July 10, 2016 I looove UST pickups. There i said it. They are incredibly stable and if used with a tool like an Aura spectrum deliver a lovelly nstural tone, Add an amp like AER and its bliss.
sjl200 Posted July 11, 2016 Posted July 11, 2016 Hay Buc love that Bird Pick up? three words.......... Trance Audio Amulet
kidblast Posted July 11, 2016 Posted July 11, 2016 I've got 2 acoustics with a Fishman Infinity Matrix (it's a UST setup). I can dial in some very good sounds with them. They were installed by pros, who did the work exactly right. My 2005 Taylor GS Jumbo came with no pickup, I cannot hear a single difference from before to after the install was done. The J200 I picked up this last March came with an LR Baggs Anthem, A control enables a blend of mic/ust, I set it to 80% mic, 20% element, it sounds awesome. I don't even use my DI with the J200 any more, just a bit of compression and a 10 band eq for a small bit of shaping, then right into the sound board. I've also used the sound hole pickups (Dean Markley Pro Magnum) from the time before I installed the fihsman in my taylor. It's very inexpensive, and it will get the job done for you with out any mods to your guitar. This pickup does have a tendency to get in the way a bit when you're fingerpicking if you rest your pinky on the top at all. Maybe that's your answer Buc?
Buc McMaster Posted July 11, 2016 Author Posted July 11, 2016 Lots of difference here........and everybody seems happy with their choice. No mention of the K&K pickup; it's kind of new on the market so I can't say I'm surprised. Yes, there are some great UST, SBT, internal mics and combinations of those that produce great tones and, if I were working with a band or perhaps even gigging solo regularly, one of these would certainly make sense. But I'm not, and do not intend to do so. (.....but, as you may have noticed, what I intend is not always what happens!) I just might go do two or three tunes at a local open mic night. I'd prefer a house microphone for the guitar, no pickup at all, and there is one place in town that could accommodate that. I like simple and I don't want to mod the guitar at all. The DM Pro Mag might be just the ticket. Thanks for your input........and it's good to hear what folks are running out there.
MR GIBS Posted July 11, 2016 Posted July 11, 2016 If you don't want to install a pickup why don't you try that solution? K&K Meridian Pro
Buc McMaster Posted July 11, 2016 Author Posted July 11, 2016 Well that Meridian looks quite interesting, Mr K. A live mic that's portable and easily installed/removed. I'll do some research............
BluesKing777 Posted July 12, 2016 Posted July 12, 2016 Well that Meridian looks quite interesting, Mr K. A live mic that's portable and easily installed/removed. I'll do some research............ BOOM and bang as the K&K mic hits the stage floor! [flapper] Everyone ducks for cover. Go raw mic'd, Buc! First open mics anyway - it will become clear what is needed after you jump! New guitar, new amp, new pickup system, new preamp system, leads, a new bottleneck, new boots and new outfit, a Telecaster! Sorry, that is for me.. The mic still needs a preamp and a lead to....where? I played plenty of gigs with a real dud mic - Ibanez Shure copy - before I bought my own Shure SM57 - dud mic sounds better than most pickups! BluesKing777. edit: If I sound somewhat bitter and twisted, it is because I keep thinking of this dreadful time I had at an open mic once....I took my Dobro but no preamp and the soundguy didn't want to move the other mics from the drum kit for a couple of songs, so he said to plug in (gulp) the dobro - and use the mic for just vocal. Bongggg! Crash! Yuk!!! The guitar sounded like farts in a cardboard box! And a brave soul said he liked it after!!!! :unsure: Never going back there!
Buc McMaster Posted July 12, 2016 Author Posted July 12, 2016 Ha! I considered that as a possibility, BK, but it does seem reasonable that an outfit like K&K would have done due diligence in the clamp. Most certainly there will be a few "dry runs" sans guitar just to get the lay of the land, so to speak...........I don't drink at all so I've not set foot in such an establishment since the last band disbanded many years ago. But I do recall that those that do host open mic nights have a house system, so you show up with your guitar and plug in........no amp required. There are a couple places in town that really do things right with an experienced sound man present and all the mics, stands and such required for walk-in performers. Again, I have no intention of investing in an amp and the like, and I have all the cool old cowboy shirts I need.......even a pair of genuine Liverpool Beatle boots from back in the day! My days of humping gear in and out of clubs are long over..........I'd just think I'd like to show up, sign up, play a couple tunes and go home.
BluesKing777 Posted July 12, 2016 Posted July 12, 2016 Yes, head out to the professionally run open mic, play half as good as your video posts and you will go very well! A Shure SM57, fairly common in live muso circles!!!, will mic up that Bird and your voice together beautifully - made for it! BluesKing777.
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