sbpark Posted July 8, 2016 Posted July 8, 2016 I was at that big musical chain store we all love to hate this morning (stocking up on acoustic strings since they are having a 15% off accessories coupon going right now) and they have the same two J45's on the wall that have been there for a very long time, one is a 2016 and the other a 2014 I think, both "new". Both have old, corroded strings on them. The 2014 sounds really nice but has it's share of scuffs, scratches, etc.. Price has been dropped a little, but I still wouldn't pay what they're asking. The 2016 sounds dead and dull, most likely because of the old strings. I love Gibson acoustics and my J45 is my #1, and also have a couple of Martins I like a lot (HD-28, 000-15M), and never really have been a fan of Taylors, but just for grins I picked up a Taylor 400 series something or other and I can understand why someone would buy that over most Gibsons hanging on the wall. The Taylor sounded pretty darn good, especially after playing after playing the two J45's with corroded, dead strings. It was clean and crisp, and was strung from the factory with Elixir strings. Not the type of sound I prefer, and like I said already I really don't like Taylors or Elixir strings, but if I was some guy with $2,000+ to burn and wasn't partial to brand or wasn't really sure what I liked/wanted and played these display guitars back to back I'd most certainly go with the Taylor in this case. It's too bad that this happens a lot of the time and I think these Gibsons would sell faster if they actually invested in better strings from the factory. If they had better strings from the factory the guitars would sound better for longer with the factory strings, and that means they wouldn't be at the mercy of as many hands strumming away on them for as long resulting in less chance of damaging the guitars. Also, for the life of me I have no clue why Gibson puts 80/20's on their J45's from the factory. Sure, 80/20's sound bright at first but they deteriorate into a more more dead and thuddy sound, and in my opinion do not last as long as even a non-coated set of PB's, plus I'd bet it's safe to say more people use PB's and are more accustomed to the sound of PB's over 80/20's. This in comparison with Taylor and Martin who ship their guitars with coated PB strings. Just makes sense to me. Gibson gets a bit of a bad rap with their acoustics, and so many people say they are very inconsistent from one to the other, which may or may not be true. Regardless, I'm sorry to say that I think part of this is Gibson's fault. I really think a lot of this has to do with the strings they use from the factory.
sbpark Posted July 8, 2016 Author Posted July 8, 2016 Why would you buy Charmin over Scotts. Well, if one package of toilet paper was torn open, ripped up, partially used, etc. I'd go with the one that wasn't. Or better yet, if one package came from the factory all shitty and the other wasn't, which one would you choose?! I'm not starting a debate on which brand is better (or which brand cleans your a$$ better) if that's what you're implying. If thats the impression you got from my post I apologize, because that wasn't the point I was trying to make.
Buc McMaster Posted July 8, 2016 Posted July 8, 2016 It's the same old thing: choice. We are confronted with them everyday........ Burger King or McDonalds. Ford or Chevy (or Dodge). iPhone or Galaxy. Levi or Wrangler. It's good to have choices, yes? Guitars are like anything else in that respect. I do understand the appeal of Taylors. Slim necks, good finishes, excellent factory setups, very good playability right out of the box........they are well made instruments. As you said, it's "not the type of sound" you prefer but it obviously appeals to a lot of players. Choice of guitar is a very personal, individual and subjective affair. Some like vanilla, some like chocolate. Let it be.....it's a good part of living in the free world, yes?
sbpark Posted July 8, 2016 Author Posted July 8, 2016 It's the same old thing: choice. We are confronted with them everyday........ Burger King or McDonalds. Ford or Chevy (or Dodge). iPhone or Galaxy. Levi or Wrangler. It's good to have choices, yes? Guitars are like anything else in that respect. I do understand the appeal of Taylors. Slim necks, good finishes, excellent factory setups, very good playability right out of the box........they are well made instruments. As you said, it's "not the type of sound" you prefer but it obviously appeals to a lot of players. Choice of guitar is a very personal, individual and subjective affair. Some like vanilla, some like chocolate. Let it be.....it's a good part of living in the free world, yes? Second person who is missing the point. Has nothing to do with what brand you prefer. It's more about how some bands do a better job of ensuring that their guitars sound the way they should for a longer period of time while other companies don't. The companies that put a little more effort into stringing their guitars from the factory with coated strings that last longer will most likely sell faster and sell more than the company who puts strings that most people don't even use and/or that go dead much faster. It has nothing to do with brand loyalty/preference. Even though I'm a Gibson guy I will say that the Taylor sounded much better because it had fresher strings on it. That doesn't mean I will buy the Taylor or that I hate Gibsons, it just means that a guitar with newer strings is going to sound better than a guitar with crappy, old, dead, corroded strings, and as a result both of those Gibsons sounded like crap. And again, if it was just some dude who wasn't partial to a brand and was going to be walking out with a guitar that day, I bet most people would go with the Taylor. Aside from those of us on these forums, most people aren't as picky or brand specific as we are. But I get it. It's a Gibosn forum, so anytime someone says anything negative about their beloved brand, they start to see red and can't understand the context of a post. These types of replies are probably from someone who read the thread title, but didn't read the post.
OldCowboy Posted July 8, 2016 Posted July 8, 2016 I agree - bad strings are a big issue when someone is buying a high-ticket new instrument that needs to be at its relative best to compete with the guitar hanging next to it. Longer-lasting factory strings would be a sales asset for sure. Failing that, it doesn't seem unreasonable to me for a shop to make at least minimal effort to keep track of the strings on their display model guitars. Maybe they don't care about sales, but in their position I sure would. An indication, perhaps, of lax store management and indifferent sales staff? It's an issue that wouldn't have to exist and a rather easy fix, too. From the sound of it (bad pun) all levels of sales are contributing to the problem.
Buc McMaster Posted July 8, 2016 Posted July 8, 2016 It's a Gibosn (?) forum, so anytime someone says anything negative about their beloved brand, they start to see red and can't understand the context of a post. Now I take issue with that. Relax......don't be so quick to point fingers. I managed a retail musical instrument establishment for twelve years and we made it a point to keep the guitars tuned with good strings. I put that on the store, it's crew and it's policies, not on the manufacturer of the instrument. It's not the fault of Gibosn or any other builder that a retailer fails to maintain inventory.
Zentar Posted July 8, 2016 Posted July 8, 2016 GC will change strings for you if you want a demo. I know because I asked them to do that and they did. When I buy an acoustic I buy what sounded the best that day in the store. The last two times I bought an acoustic I went with the intent of getting a Martin. Both times I walked out owning a Taylor.
Martin 1940D28 Posted July 8, 2016 Posted July 8, 2016 sbpark, you surely have class, well above and beyond my train of thought on toilet paper.
sbpark Posted July 8, 2016 Author Posted July 8, 2016 sbpark, you surely have class, well above and beyond my train of thought on toilet paper. Well, since you missed the entire point of my post, I thought I'd dumb it down a bit and break it down in a way that might be easier for you to understand since you're the one who referenced toilet paper.
zombywoof Posted July 8, 2016 Posted July 8, 2016 Never worried too much about what strings a guitar comes with. I can tell more about an instrument by giving it a bit of whack on the side with the side of thumb and then listening and feeling. Plus, any shop worth its salt will string a guitar with anything you want (providing the have the strings in stock). And I prefer Charmin over Scotts (I miss those Mr. Whipple ads) and buy Wranglers because Levis have gotten way too pricey. Not much for Mickey Ds though. And the Burger King guy kinda freaks me out.
rct Posted July 8, 2016 Posted July 8, 2016 I know how to play no matter the state of the strings, but I've never bought without them putting new ones on, they will if you ask. As long as there are Martins, I can't understand why anyone would buy either of the other two. rct
OldCowboy Posted July 8, 2016 Posted July 8, 2016 Never worried too much about what strings a guitar comes with. I can tell more about an instrument by giving it a bit of whack on the side with the side of thumb and then listening and feeling. Plus, any shop worth its salt will string a guitar with anything you want (providing the have the strings in stock). And I prefer Charmin over Scotts (I miss those Mr. Whipple ads) and buy Wranglers because Levis have gotten way too pricey. Not much for Mickey Ds though. And the Burger King guy kinda freaks me out. Charmin's good - I like the Bears! Lee jeans are my affordable Levis alternative, and I hate clowns - but prefer BK when Steak 'n Shake isn't available....
OldCowboy Posted July 8, 2016 Posted July 8, 2016 I know how to play no matter the state of the strings, but I've never bought without them putting new ones on, they will if you ask. As long as there are Martins, I can't understand why anyone would buy either of the other two. rct Careful - you're beginning to sound like a bluegrasser - lol
sbpark Posted July 9, 2016 Author Posted July 9, 2016 I know how to play no matter the state of the strings, but I've never bought without them putting new ones on, they will if you ask. As long as there are Martins, I can't understand why anyone would buy either of the other two. rct I can't understand why someone would just limit themselves to just one brand.
rct Posted July 9, 2016 Posted July 9, 2016 I can't understand why someone would just limit themselves to just one brand. 15 years ago I bought an expensive Taylor, 410? 414? Something. Beautiful, well built, made of Ovankgol. It was like plugging in a nothing. No character, no guts, no ooomph. Nothing. Took it out a couple dozen times, gave it a good shot, traded it after about 8 months for an amp and some other stuff. Gibson hasn't made an acoustic I have liked enough to ever buy. Since 1971. I don't buy guitars in order to have some representation of brands, I buy them to use, and I have to love them to use them. Some people don't limit themselves to one brand, they simply use what works for them. I use both kinds of lekkik guitars and the one kind of acoustic. rct
sbpark Posted July 9, 2016 Author Posted July 9, 2016 15 years ago I bought an expensive Taylor, 410? 414? Something. Beautiful, well built, made of Ovankgol. It was like plugging in a nothing. No character, no guts, no ooomph. Nothing. Took it out a couple dozen times, gave it a good shot, traded it after about 8 months for an amp and some other stuff. Gibson hasn't made an acoustic I have liked enough to ever buy. Since 1971. I don't buy guitars in order to have some representation of brands, I buy them to use, and I have to love them to use them. Some people don't limit themselves to one brand, they simply use what works for them. I use both kinds of lekkik guitars and the one kind of acoustic. rct Whatever floats your boat!
rct Posted July 9, 2016 Posted July 9, 2016 Whatever floats your boat! Zactly. As to your subject line, I can understand why some would buy a Taylor over anything, I've tried some really nice ones and owned one for a while. I've played a few really nice Gibsons, they didn't work for me, but I can understand why some would buy them over anything. rct
sbpark Posted July 9, 2016 Author Posted July 9, 2016 Zactly. As to your subject line, I can understand why some would buy a Taylor over anything, I've tried some really nice ones and owned one for a while. I've played a few really nice Gibsons, they didn't work for me, but I can understand why some would buy them over anything. rct Go back and actually read my post because I was not saying that one brand is better than another. I was commenting on how some companies ship their guitars with better, longer lasting strings, which could be a significant reason why some people choose one guitar over another when they are shopping. Gibson sends their J45's out with 80/20's that don't sounds that good to begin with and go dead fast, while other notable manufacturers ship with coated PB's. I wasn't saying one brand was superior over the others as far as sound, fit and finish, etc. Was simply focusing on the strings.
MissouriPicker Posted July 9, 2016 Posted July 9, 2016 I like Gibsons, followed by Martins. Taylors don't appeal to me. They simply don't. Nothing to do with quality.....I don't care what kind of guitar someone else plays. It's a personal and economic choice. GC isn't great at changing strings. As stated, they will if you ask them.
rct Posted July 9, 2016 Posted July 9, 2016 Go back and actually read my post because I was not saying that one brand is better than another. I was commenting on how some companies ship their guitars with better, longer lasting strings, which could be a significant reason why some people choose one guitar over another when they are shopping. Gibson sends their J45's out with 80/20's that don't sounds that good to begin with and go dead fast, while other notable manufacturers ship with coated PB's. I wasn't saying one brand was superior over the others as far as sound, fit and finish, etc. Was simply focusing on the strings. No, I got it, I really did. I think it's a wash, the store is responsible, not the makers. I know a really nice shop in Milwaukee that gets them in with delightfully minty fresh coated SP7100s on them and immediately changes them to even fresher SP7100s. It's the shop, not the company. And GC probably has 4, 5 times as many Taylors as Gibsons, so the one or two Js they have get the crap beat out of them in the same time each of the Taylors gets an hour of play on them. My local GC has no Gibson acoustics at all and won't because they don't hang what they can't sell, so Taylor wins no matter the strings! rct
sbpark Posted July 9, 2016 Author Posted July 9, 2016 No, I got it, I really did. I think it's a wash, the store is responsible, not the makers. I know a really nice shop in Milwaukee that gets them in with delightfully minty fresh coated SP7100s on them and immediately changes them to even fresher SP7100s. It's the shop, not the company. And GC probably has 4, 5 times as many Taylors as Gibsons, so the one or two Js they have get the crap beat out of them in the same time each of the Taylors gets an hour of play on them. My local GC has no Gibson acoustics at all and won't because they don't hang what they can't sell, so Taylor wins no matter the strings! rct Fair enough. This particular GC had quite a few Gibsons surprisingly. A few J45's, J15, couple songwriters, etc., but as you mentioned they also had a wall of Taylors and a bunch of Martins.
rct Posted July 9, 2016 Posted July 9, 2016 Fair enough. This particular GC had quite a few Gibsons surprisingly. A few J45's, J15, couple songwriters, etc., but as you mentioned they also had a wall of Taylors and a bunch of Martins. While I was in Milwaukee I took advantage of the Brookfield GC and Cream City Guitars and played a crap load of Gibson acoustics. At this time in my life I use three Gibsons regularly and I would sure love an acoustic to take out too, so I always play them when I run into them. That GC had a good half a dozen, three kinds of Js, an SJ or two, one 'bird, and the little one, L-00<mumble>. Couldn't get along with any of them neck wise, and the bodies on all but one are just too dang big on me. Sounded great though, real wide, round, fat, great thud, much deeper all around than my Martins. They had an entire room of Taylors which I ignored. Been there, done that, don't have a t-shirt or anything else Taylor. rct
MorrisrownSal Posted July 9, 2016 Posted July 9, 2016 Rct, You are in South Jersey? Get over to Russo's in Asbury Park. Prolly an hour from you. Taylor. Martin. Huge collection of Gibsons. Yamaha. Gretsch. Epiphone. Fender. And hundreds of electrics, drums, bass, and amps. It's a remarkable store and pretty friggin hip. The guitars are all cared for; I haven't gone into a guitar center in ages because of Russo's.
BluesKing777 Posted July 9, 2016 Posted July 9, 2016 They probably just give up changing or keep changing them daily after Junior gave them all a thrashing after being at McD's and not washing hands.... The factory strings probably all expire in the delivery van, no matter what type. It is a moving goalpost! And body chemistry issues - a friend has the 'Reverse Midas Touch' where he can just LOOK at my guitar and the strings go off... I am self limited to Gibson, Martin and National guitars.....and that covers a REAL lot of territory, but ones I have owned/friends owned that I don't have one ounce of interest in are: modern Washburn, Maton, Ovation, Yamaha and Godin. I like the Gibson sound, the Martin sound and the National sound! In the spirit of adventure, I tried ONE Taylor, very high end, and I didn't know WHAT to make of it. It was huge and I couldn't get a playing position happening, struggled with the weird neck and REALLY bright sound that made me realise I like bassy mellow! Next I played the tuxedo Waterloo ladder braced and that needed old strings, not brand new coated, probably a set of 1962 Black Diamonds. I could live with that old time sound for blues picking, but I can see that someone who liked the Taylor I played would think..,WTF is this? I wrote more than planned for an argumentative type thread that will probably be deleted by the mods.... BluesKing777.
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