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Macmutt

Sorry but Weight relieved Les Pauls are NOT Les Pauls

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You know what..for the most part i agree with everything you said here, i just can't help but get really annoyed when companies like Gibson mess with such a perfect and historic instrument like the Les Paul, i just don't see why they can't leave it as is.

 

Look at Fender and Rickenbacker, the Strat nor the Ric 360 has ever been altered since their conception, both are still made exactly how they were from day one.

So why couldn't Gibson just do the same ? Thats all i'm saying, there is just no need to mess with a classic.

 

Well, I do understand your argument about Les Pauls staying true to their original design and I do agree in some respects, but it was players complaining about the weight back in the 60's & 70's that forced Gibson to re-evaluate solid LP's and bring the first weight relieved ones out in the 80's. These days you have the choice of either and that's a good thing for players I believe. Maybe if Gibson USA brought out an option for solid or relieved on each model (Standard, Traditional etc) that might be a good thing if feasable, rather than having to buy a custom shop model in most cases. They seem to be addressing this though as I've noticed a few runs of solid LP Traditional's over the past few years and obviously the one you have been looking at for 2017 is non weight relieved. Whether an LP is solid or weight relieved doesn't really bother me, unless it's a reissue and then it should stay true to original specs.

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Ok heres a good one...

 

Facts on Jimmy Pages LP no1

 

Body: Bound carved maple top (visible center join), mahogany body, sides and back, 1-ply creme binding

Finish: Cherry Sunburst

Neck: 3-piece mahogany neck, 1-ply creme binding, shaved to an eliptical profile (by Virgil Lay of Lay's Guitars for Joe Walsh)

Fingerboard: Rosewood with pearl trapezoid inlays

Frets: 22

Bridge: ABR-1 Tune-o-matic Bridge

Headstock: Blackface with 'Gibson' logo pearl inlay

Tuners: Kluson tuners, later Gold Grovers

Hardware: Nickel

Pickguard: Raised cream acrylic

Pickups: 2 covered humbucker PAF, original bridge PAF changed, firstly to a T-top, then later to a custom-wound Duncan, and has been covered/uncovered at various times, (neck) 1960 PAF

Controls: (2) Volume, (2) Tone (w/ pull-pot switching added ca. 1980s), 3-way selector

Weight: 7 lbs., 8oz. (3.4 kg.)

Years in use: ca. April 1969 - Present

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This sustain thing got me thinking. Ted Nugent's ability to get sustain from a Gibson Byrdland (which is a semi-hollow) is incredible. So if weight is related to sustain i.e. more weight = more sustain, how's he do it? Just wondering.

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This sustain thing got me thinking. Ted Nugent's ability to get sustain from a Gibson Byrdland (which is a semi-hollow) is incredible. So if weight is related to sustain i.e. more weight = more sustain, how's he do it? Just wondering.

It's all about feedback.

 

The Gibson Byrdland is a hollow body guitar with a thinline rib and therefore very susceptible to midrange sound from speakers transducing her tone. The slim rib helps keeping out low frequencies that possibly could crack the guitar's top or back. Appropriate positions of speakers and player combined with proper pickup selection, gain, volume and tone settings allow for controlled feedback of desired fundamentals or harmonics.

 

Ted Nugent said that listening to these "beautiful decibels" (T. N.) close to the cabinets since decades affected the hearing of his left ear.

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Well, I do understand your argument about Les Pauls staying true to their original design and I do agree in some respects, but it was players complaining about the weight back in the 60's & 70's that forced Gibson to re-evaluate solid LP's and bring the first weight relieved ones out in the 80's. These days you have the choice of either and that's a good thing for players I believe. Maybe if Gibson USA brought out an option for solid or relieved on each model (Standard, Traditional etc) that might be a good thing if feasable, rather than having to buy a custom shop model in most cases. They seem to be addressing this though as I've noticed a few runs of solid LP Traditional's over the past few years and obviously the one you have been looking at for 2017 is non weight relieved. Whether an LP is solid or weight relieved doesn't really bother me, unless it's a reissue and then it should stay true to original specs.

 

I agree 100%, i'm not saying everyone should buy a solid body Les Paul, but Gibson should always offer players the choice of weight relieved and solid bodies in their production line up every year.....That's all.

 

My original statement was that Les Paul's that are made with solid bodies and absolutely no weight relief are the only models that are really true to the Les Paul name and the original production line.....weight relieved Les Paula are not true Les Paula in my opinion and no amount of debate is going to change that opinion...but to each his own.

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I agree 100%, i'm not saying everyone should buy a solid body Les Paul, but Gibson should always offer players the choice of weight relieved and solid bodies in their production line up every year.....That's all.

 

My original statement was that Les Paul's that are made with solid bodies and absolutely no weight relief are the only models that are really true to the Les Paul name and the original production line.....weight relieved Les Paula are not true Les Paula in my opinion and no amount of debate is going to change that opinion...but to each his own.

In my opinion Gibson should offer all of their Gibson USA Les Paul models solid and weight-relieved. Honestly, I would have bought the three of my weight-relieved LPs solid like the other two, had there been the option.

 

What I still don't get is the clandestine introduction of weight-relief in 1983. Same happened with the laminated fretboards, and I am a victim of that. Long after the return period had expired, I found out they had built my Gibson Custom (!) Alex Lifeson Les Paul Axcess with a laminated board in 2012 without prior notice. I can't find a sonic problem with that, but honestly, I feel betrayed. Of course I will never know how she would sound with a one-piece fretboard.

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This sustain thing got me thinking. Ted Nugent's ability to get sustain from a Gibson Byrdland (which is a semi-hollow) is incredible. So if weight is related to sustain i.e. more weight = more sustain, how's he do it? Just wondering.

 

Soundcheck was spent finding the spots he needed and marking the floor with tape for each note he needed. Stand in that spot, move the guitar slightly so the pickups and speakers can see each other, and you got desirable, delicious feedback.

 

rct

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It's all about feedback.

 

The Gibson Byrdland is a hollow body guitar with a thinline rib and therefore very susceptible to midrange sound from speakers transducing her tone. The slim rib helps keeping out low frequencies that possibly could crack the guitar's top or back. Appropriate positions of speakers and player combined with proper pickup selection, gain, volume and tone settings allow for controlled feedback of desired fundamentals or harmonics.

 

Ted Nugent said that listening to these "beautiful decibels" (T. N.) close to the cabinets since decades affected the hearing of his left ear.

 

Thanks - so it's more than just weight. So what's the big deal solid vs chambered? I've got a 1990 35th Anniversary LP (solid) and a 2013 Standard LP (chambered) and sure they don't sound the same what with different PUPs, etc., but to me they're real LPs. If the argument is that the chambered LPs are not real LPs because Gibby broke the tradition of solid LPs, then to me it's a moot one.

 

Hell, we only knew missionary and now we're into doggie, spoon, on top, upright V, against the wall front & back, I could go on....so does that mean it's not sex because we broke with the tradition of a single position?

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Soundcheck was spent finding the spots he needed and marking the floor with tape for each note he needed. Stand in that spot, move the guitar slightly so the pickups and speakers can see each other, and you got desirable, delicious feedback.

 

rct

Ted's wall of powerful Fender Dual Showman tops and cabinets might have helped a lot. [biggrin]

 

 

Thanks - so it's more than just weight. So what's the big deal solid vs chambered? I've got a 1990 35th Anniversary LP (solid) and a 2013 Standard LP (chambered) and sure they don't sound the same what with different PUPs, etc., but to me they're real LPs. If the argument is that the chambered LPs are not real LPs because Gibby broke the tradition of solid LPs, then to me it's a moot one.

 

Hell, we only knew missionary and now we're into doggie, spoon, on top, upright V, against the wall front & back, I could go on....so does that mean it's not sex because we broke with the tradition of a single position?

The 2013 LP Standard would feature modern aka wheelspoke weight relief. I think the pickups are BurstBucker Pros.

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Ted's wall of powerful Fender Dual Showman tops and cabinets might have helped a lot. [biggrin]

 

a Dual Showman on 10 pushing 8 12s was a thing of beauty.

 

rct

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a Dual Showman on 10 pushing 8 12s was a thing of beauty.

 

rct

This may have made Ted call the outcome "beautiful decibels." [rolleyes]

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Guest Farnsbarns

Ted can tell you about how his feedback loop works.

 

 

"That's still good for country and western". Brilliant!

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"That's still good for country and western". Brilliant!

[biggrin] Has always done it for me! Am I doing something wrong? [scared] :P [rolleyes]

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