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Sorry but Weight relieved Les Pauls are NOT Les Pauls


Macmutt
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I can tell you why...because most players in here are all of 25 years or younger and don't know jack about guitar construction, they see a pretty flame top and hear some hot pick ups, so their convinced it's the real deal.

 

If they bothered to educate themselves then they would realize it's also SOLID hardwood that contributes to the meaty sustain of the guitar, which is why a lot of the older guy's like myself would put up a late 50's Les Paul against any of the hallowed out pieces of crap they make today.

 

Don't come in here all pissed off at me because you spent three grand on a Les Paul and you feel the need to justify it after you found out that most of the wood has been routered out.

 

You should've just done more research and elected your instrument more carefully.....it's not my fault.

 

Sir, I am 32 and have read dozens of books and online articles on all types of Gibson, including Les Pauls, maintenance and construction. Now, I'm no luthier like Rabs, but most guys here are very knowledgeable and probably know more than you think you do. A lot of the forum members are much older than me and have vast experience...learn from them.

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Sir, I am 32 and have read dozens of books and online articles on all types of Gibson, including Les Pauls, maintenance and construction. Now, I'm no luthier like Rabs, but most guys here are very knowledgeable and probably know more than you think you do. A lot of the forum members are much older than me and have vast experience...learn from them.

ahh man, you know what...

 

I really think hes just trolling..... take no notice.. im not going to bother anymore with someone who obviously has no idea what they are talking about or is just here to argue with people.

 

Let alone giving no proof or evidence apart from his own view... which lets face it, doesn't mean very much apart from to him.

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um.. geez .. I wish I was 25 (again) ;

I'll have to turn back my tardis about 30+ years.. to get back down to 25.

 

 

then again.. I have a Gibson J-45 here as well... It's pretty hollow inside.. sustains pretty darn good too for not having much wood inside it.

I'm not pissed off at Gibson for the thing missing wood.

 

I don't think I've come here pissed off.. I've been on the forum for a number of years.. I think most here can say I'm not a pissed off person in my posts.

 

enjoy your quest for a absolutely solid Les Paul..

I'm quiet happy with mine..

 

 

 

I can tell you why...because most players in here are all of 25 years or younger and don't know jack about guitar construction, they see a pretty flame top and hear some hot pick ups, so their convinced it's the real deal.

 

If they bothered to educate themselves then they would realize it's also SOLID hardwood that contributes to the meaty sustain of the guitar, which is why a lot of the older guy's like myself would put up a late 50's Les Paul against any of the hallowed out pieces of crap they make today.

 

Don't come in here all pissed off at me because you spent three grand on a Les Paul and you feel the need to justify it after you found out that most of the wood has been routered out.

 

You should've just done more research and elected your instrument more carefully.....it's not my fault.

 

 

 

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Guest Farnsbarns

I can tell you why...because most players in here are all of 25 years or younger and don't know jack about guitar construction, they see a pretty flame top and hear some hot pick ups, so their convinced it's the real deal.

 

If they bothered to educate themselves then they would realize it's also SOLID hardwood that contributes to the meaty sustain of the guitar, which is why a lot of the older guy's like myself would put up a late 50's Les Paul against any of the hallowed out pieces of crap they make today.

 

Don't come in here all pissed off at me because you spent three grand on a Les Paul and you feel the need to justify it after you found out that most of the wood has been routered out.

 

You should've just done more research and elected your instrument more carefully.....it's not my fault.

 

Most people here are in their 40s or 50s and most have played proffessionally for a good time. You have one proffessional luthier, a well respected Les Paul expert and you closed out your conversation last time by announcing you'd simply been trolling, then you edited that post and disappeared, much to everyone's delight. That makes you an idiot.

 

Sigh.......here we go again ](*,)

 

Never mind. The idiot will move on shortly.

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I can tell you why...because most players in here are all of 25 years or younger and don't know jack about guitar construction, they see a pretty flame top and hear some hot pick ups, so their convinced it's the real deal.

 

If they bothered to educate themselves then they would realize it's also SOLID hardwood that contributes to the meaty sustain of the guitar, which is why a lot of the older guy's like myself would put up a late 50's Les Paul against any of the hallowed out pieces of crap they make today.

 

Don't come in here all pissed off at me because you spent three grand on a Les Paul and you feel the need to justify it after you found out that most of the wood has been routered out.

 

You should've just done more research and elected your instrument more carefully.....it's not my fault.

 

I bet you $500 that I can give you a recording of 10 guitars and you can't pick out which one is a modern, routed out Les Paul Standard, which one was a historic reissue and which one was an Ibaneze Road Star.

 

Rage on zombie thread. :rolleyes:

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"SOLID"... except, of course, for where they are significantly routed out for the 2 pickups (which means 3 pickup Black Beauties must not be real LPs because they have too much wood removed). Or where they are routed out for the wiring or for the pots/rear access or for the toggle switch... those areas of wood that are removed are inconsequential... and still qualify as "SOLID"... but if you remove one more bit of wood after that... total crap!!!!!!!! [blink]???????

 

Some people.... [rolleyes]

 

Are you serious ? Nobody is talking about the electronic chambers...those are routered out because electronics, pickups, pots, wiring and switches are placed in those routered holes.

 

Holes routered out just for the sake of making an instrument lighter is in my opinion retarded and detracts from the original sound that made the Les Paul what it is today......thats the argument.

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Sir, I am 32 and have read dozens of books and online articles on all types of Gibson, including Les Pauls, maintenance and construction. Now, I'm no luthier like Rabs, but most guys here are very knowledgeable and probably know more than you think you do. A lot of the forum members are much older than me and have vast experience...learn from them.

 

Well i'm almost 48 years old and my brother is almost 55 years old..now i've been playing for nearly 30 years and my brother's been playing for over 40 years and although neither one of us are luthiers either, we have nearly every guitar book ever published on Gibson Fender, PRS and more and these aren't just pretty picture books, but books on luthier techniques, which woods are the best, and how much of a difference solid hardwoods and various pickups combos make in a guitar, plus we do all the work on our guitars ourselves, adjustments, replacing strings, buffing, polishing, pick up and tuner replacement, everything.

 

So i don't need to ask anyone's opinion on chambered guitars, it's cutting corners to appease the cry babies of today who whine about the guitar being to heavy, i'm mean really ? too heavy, the chambering cuts out just over a pound of wood is that really a back breaking difference ? come on.

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I bet you $500 that I can give you a recording of 10 guitars and you can't pick out which one is a modern, routed out Les Paul Standard, which one was a historic reissue and which one was an Ibaneze Road Star.

 

Rage on zombie thread. :rolleyes:

 

LOL a recording....anything could be made to sound like whatever you want it to sound like by the time you run it through a mixing board, now if your were sitting in the same room with me and i was blind folded and you had each of those guitars plugged directly into a tube amp and you were ringing out a single note and letting it sing out until it stopped.

 

Then yes i could tell you which guitar was chambered and which one was solid.

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Well i'm almost 48 years old and my brother is almost 55 years old..now i've been playing for nearly 30 years and my brother's been playing for over 40 years and although neither one of us are luthiers either, we have nearly every guitar book ever published on Gibson Fender, PRS and more and these aren't just pretty picture books, but books on luthier techniques, which woods are the best, and how much of a difference solid hardwoods and various pickups combos make in a guitar, plus we do all the work on our guitars ourselves, adjustments, replacing strings, buffing, polishing, pick up and tuner replacement, everything.

 

So i don't need to ask anyone's opinion on chambered guitars, it's cutting corners to appease the cry babies of today who whine about the guitar being to heavy, i'm mean really ? too heavy, the chambering cuts out just over a pound of wood is that really a back breaking difference ? come on.

 

I know what the argument is... you're just being a hugely pedantic curmudgeon.

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Post a video of you playing your solid guitar. Show us all how good it is.

 

Don't have it anymore i dropped it off to have the Geforce tuners replaced with klusons while it was still under warranty and the tech accidentally banged the neck up against his workbench and put a nasty ding in the top of the neck right where you slide your thumb over, in retrospect i should've done it myself like i wanted to but the labor was free and the tuners were on sale, plus the sales guy reminded me if i did do it myself and it got damaged it would not have been replaceable, but because i utilized my service contract while it was still under warranty now it's getting replaced for free.

 

However thanks to the warranty i received full credit for it, which is why i started looking at the 2017 Traditional T model, but i haven't made up my mind yet, at least i still have my SG to play in the mean time.

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Don't have it anymore i dropped it off to have the Geforce tuners replaced with klusons while it was still under warranty and the tech accidentally banged the neck up against his workbench and put a nasty ding in the top of the neck right where you slide your thumb over...

 

Cool story bro.

 

rct

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LOL a recording....anything could be made to sound like whatever you want it to sound like by the time you run it through a mixing board, now if your were sitting in the same room with me and i was blind folded and you had each of those guitars plugged directly into a tube amp and you were ringing out a single note and letting it sing out until it stopped.

 

Then yes i could tell you which guitar was chambered and which one was solid.

 

So you admit you can't hear the difference. Suckers walk, money talks.

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Now I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong, but here's some food for thought... I have 2 les Paul customs, (2012 and 2014),, my old man has a 82 les Paul custom. All of which I believe have no weight relief, all 10.3lbs if you close your eyes and play them you couldn't tell what one you were playing, it's unreal they are exactly the same!!!!!!! And I recent picked up the new 57 VOS 2 pup black beauty les Paul custom and correct me if I'm wrong but it has no weight relief it's a solid body and weighs bout 8-9lbs... The sound of that guitar is better than any guitar I've ever heard!!! I understand the guts of that guitar are completely different but it's a lighter guitar an sounds ten times better than any guitar not just gibsons... In my opinion it's mostly the guts of the guitar that makes them sound the way they do.

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you had each of those guitars plugged directly into a tube amp and you were ringing out a single note and letting it sing out until it stopped.

 

Then yes i could tell you which guitar was chambered and which one was solid.

 

 

Well if that's how you're playing your guitar you're doing it all wrong.

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lol at solid wood giving a guitar it's sustain...

 

Sustain is determined by mechanical resistance. If the where the bridge and tail piece are bolted to the body is solid wood then there is no difference between a weight relieved version or not. Sustain literally has everything to do with the mechanical resistance on the strings, and that is determined by what touches them directly.

 

Please Macmutt, enlighten this mechanical engineer on all your scientific theory of sustain. I am dying to hear it.

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Macmutt,

 

If you don't mind my saying so, sir, you seem to have painted yourself into a corner here.

 

You could have started this thread out by stating your opinion in a calm, logical, and objective fashion, and then engaged in a reasonable give and take from then on going forward.

To wit;

"Hi fellows. You know, I really prefer the sound of a non-weight relieved Gibson Les Paul. Compared to a weight-relieved LP, I find that the older, original design delivers a more beautiful tone, classic vibe, and (in my opinion), a better sustain. In my heart of hearts, only the older, non-weight-relieved Gibson Les Pauls are true and proper representations of that guitar model. What do you think? Do you agree?"

 

BUT NO.

You came out of the gate with a bull$hit attitude, a debatable hypothesis, and an absurd set of follow-on conclusions.

"Only the old-school, non-weight-relieved Les Pauls are real Les Pauls, and all of you losers who disagree with me are drooling idiots!"

"The sustain is superior, hands down."

"I can tell the difference between weight-relieved and non-weight relieved in a blindfold test, but only under my specific set of conditions, and your conditions are immediately suspect!"

 

Worse yet, you:

* have failed to produce any credible evidence to back up your original claim

* refuse to offer up any videos of you actually playing your awesome, admittedly-heavy guitars

and

* you jink and jive like an elementary-school kid on the dodge-ball court whenever a reasonable request is made of you.

 

In short, you are like an old stereo with a record album playing at full volume, and the stylus keeps hitting a deep scratch in the vinyl, going tick-skip, tick-skip, tick-skip.

Loudly.

 

Dude, your opinions are your opinions, and they aren't necessarily right or wrong, until the moment that you make such absurd, declarative statements in an effort to support them.

Oh wait.

You did exactly that in the very first post of this thread.

 

[unsure][crying] :unsure:

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So then, you have taken your guitar to a tech to change the tuners but you said earlier you're an expert because you change your own. [lol]

 

So full of shite and it's embarrassing that you think you're fooling anyone.

 

Here's a thing. If you can pick the weight relieved guitars from 20 (10 of each) while I play single notes and youre blindfold, with just 80% accuracy, I'll give you all 20 guitars. Fail though and you give me $20000. How's that?

 

Just so you know. I don't own any weight relieved less Pauls so I'm no cry baby whining about heavy guitar's or someone trying to convince myself my guitar is great. My guitars are great, because I play them though, not because they're solid.

 

 

You cannot be more than 12 or 13. I simply don't believe you. You're clearly a child trolling for fun.

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lol at solid wood giving a guitar it's sustain...

 

Sustain is determined by mechanical resistance. If the where the bridge and tail piece are bolted to the body is solid wood then there is no difference between a weight relieved version or not. Sustain literally has everything to do with the mechanical resistance on the strings, and that is determined by what touches them directly.

 

Please Macmutt, enlighten this mechanical engineer on all your scientific theory of sustain. I am dying to hear it.

 

Do you know anything about the laws of physics ?, more mass means more sustain, and a solid body guitar has more mass than a chambered guitar, that is indisputable.

 

Go get an acoustic guitar, and then go get an electric guitar, plug in the electric to an amp and pluck the same note on both and time the sustain and how long it takes for the note to fizzle out to silence.....the electric will win every single time.

 

It's like you trying to dispute which vehicle it would take to stop first, if you had a Honda accord and a 18 wheel tractor trailer going 90-mph, the Honda will always stop first because it has less mass.

 

Therefore if you have a solid body 10 pound guitar and a chambered 4 pound guitar, the 10 pounder will always sustain longer.....every single time the larger the mass the more sustain....we live on planet earth you can't change the laws of physics....there is no dispute, i am right !!!!!

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So then, you have taken your guitar to a tech to change the tuners but you said earlier you're an expert because you change your own. [lol]

 

So full of shite and it's embarrassing that you think you're fooling anyone.

 

Here's a thing. If you can pick the weight relieved guitars from 20 (10 of each) while I play single notes and youre blindfold, with just 80% accuracy, I'll give you all 20 guitars. Fail though and you give me $20000. How's that?

 

Just so you know. I don't own any weight relieved less Pauls so I'm no cry baby whining about heavy guitar's or someone trying to convince myself my guitar is great. My guitars are great, because I play them though, not because they're solid.

 

 

You cannot be more than 12 or 13. I simply don't believe you. You're clearly a child trolling for fun.

 

Believe what you want, but i am 47 years old trying to educate the 15 to 30 year olds of today....and if you read my entire post about going to the guitar tech, you would see that i chose to utilize the free labor coverage in my warranty and take advantage of the sale on the tuners, and it was a good thing i did because if i had damaged it then i would have nothing but a damaged guitar instead of shopping around for new one to replace the one the tech damaged.

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