Sold my J45...now what?

[sbpark]

Bolt on neck, artificial fingerboard, hybrid bracing. Hard to dispute. I'd be curious to know what it is about this piece that works for you (OP). It may help clarify your preferences.

 

What piece, the 000-15M? Sorry to say there's nothing artificial about the fretboard. It's EIR. Hybrid bracing? Who the heck cares. I could care less if it's x-braced, ladder braced, or whatever "hybrid" bracing is, as long as I like how it sounds. The martin site says x-bracing and simple dovetail neck joint, but who cares if it's bolted on? So what you're saying is you're also more about specs than sound? What I like about it is that its a super sweet, woody, warm sounding, articulate guitar that is great for flat picking, strumming and finger picking for the singer/songwriter. I like my AJ because it's a great flat picker that has killer clarity and monster bottom end. I like my HD28 because it's like a grand piano. Warm, clear, and just killer sounding guitar. I have never played a guitar where I liked how it sounded but said to myself, "darn, I really liked this guitar but I read it has (insert whatever bracing pattern you choose) bracing, and I heard that bracing sucks, so I can't buy this guitar. Ridiculous.

[62burst]

what piece?

 

To move the discussion along, Mr. Rambler was using "piece" to mean "this item", "this guitar". What was it that you like about the model?

 

 

Also- for a little all-mahogany J-45 observation; suffering from curiosity over the 1940's J-45's, a hog-topped model was picked up, and had a ballsy sound like none other in the room of the vintage guitar shop. Very strong mids, not complex, as you'd heard in the online demo of contemporary models, but very fundamental tone, DRY, and a unique quality to "load up" the top when chunking out chords hard. It took that energy and converted it into the Mother of Gibson rumble.

 

Just my .02. Probably an anomaly (?), don't know if this would apply to modern all-mahogany J-45's, but there it is.

 

I'm into rosewood slopes these days; time to move all of the others on, but that hog Banner will be the last to go.

[Rambler]

What piece, the 000-15M? Sorry to say there's nothing artificial about the fretboard. It's EIR. Hybrid bracing? Who the heck cares. I could care less if it's x-braced, ladder braced, or whatever "hybrid" bracing is, as long as I like how it sounds. The martin site says x-bracing and simple dovetail neck joint, but who cares if it's bolted on? So what you're saying is you're also more about specs than sound? What I like about it is that its a super sweet, woody, warm sounding, articulate guitar that is great for flat picking, strumming and finger picking for the singer/songwriter. I like my AJ because it's a great flat picker that has killer clarity and monster bottom end. I like my HD28 because it's like a grand piano. Warm, clear, and just killer sounding guitar. I have never played a guitar where I liked how it sounded but said to myself, "darn, I really liked this guitar but I read it has (insert whatever bracing pattern you choose) bracing, and I heard that bracing sucks, so I can't buy this guitar. Ridiculous.

Stand corrected on the fretboard. Martin often uses Micarta (sp?) on its budget lines. Im glad you enjoy your guitar.

[sbpark]

I went to a 5-star Gibson dealer today and played a few guitars. They had a 2016 J45 Standard that was a dud. Very inspiring guitar. Then played an SJ. That guitar sounded great, but still preferred the sound of my AJ. For grins tried a 2015 J45 TV and had a thermally cured top and sounded good, but kind of liked the SJ better. Also tried a limited run 12-fret SJ. Really nice, mellow guitar, but the one that won me over was a new limited run of 75 guitars all-mahogany J45. Really was a beautiful sounding guitar, but butt-ugly. Had a natural finish, the ugly thick, gummy 2016 pick guard and gold butter bean style tuners. I like the butter bean tuners but wasn't digging the gold, but man, that guitar sounded like melted butter! Guitar/Musician's Friend has a similar all-mahogany J45 made for them with a banner logo, white button tuners and a burst finish for a couple hundred less, but nobody has them in the stores and not wanting to spend that much on a guitar site unseen, regardless of the return policy.

[sbpark]

 

To move the discussion along, Mr. Rambler was using "piece" to mean "this item", "this guitar". What was it that you like about the model?

 

 

Also- for a little all-mahogany J-45 observation; suffering from curiosity over the 1940's J-45's, a hog-topped model was picked up, and had a ballsy sound like none other in the room of the vintage guitar shop. Very strong mids, not complex, as you'd heard in the online demo of contemporary models, but very fundamental tone, dry, and a unique quality to "load up" the top when chunking out chords hard. It took that energy and converted into the Mother of Gibson rumble.

 

Just my .02. Probably an anomaly (?), don't know if this would apply to modern all-mahogany J-45's, but there it is.

 

I'm into rosewood slopes these days; time to move all of the others on, but that Banner hog will be the last to go.

 

I played a new Gibson all-mahogany J45 this morning and it was pretty much how you described the vintage one you played. Great for chunking out chords, mellow yet articulate, yet still sounded like a Gibson.

[fortyearspickn]

Glad to see someone besides me feels 100% 'hog guitars are butt ugly.

I don't care about the pick guard or the tuners - you can put lipstick on a pig, but she's still a pig.

( I hope this doesn't come back and bite me in the butt in 20 years when I run for President.)

[slimt]

The standard J45 / 50s are the main staple to any Gibson Player.. they fit the bill in most situations .. you can tweek those out very well for finger comfort and sound qualities .. Just like the D18 is to Martin Players..

 

I would never be without a J45 here.. only thing that gets removed are the inboard pickup systems..

[onewilyfool]

I know exactly what SB is talking about…..may be a GREAT instrument…..but if you don't bond with it….it must go. I've had my friend play my guitars to me, in this category…..and they sounded FANTASTIC….yet, when I played them….no bond….lol…..life is interesting isn't it?

[BluesKing777]

I have the Martin 000c-15e which is the cutaway and Fishman electronics version of the first 000-15 from the 15 series that came out about 1998. I have had mine close to 10 years now and the 15 series were the only mahogany top guitars you could get here at the time - I tried the D15e but really wanted the OM15 I had read about in my new discovery at the time - the UMGF, but none around. I also was keen on the all mahogany Guild M20 like Lightning Hopkins had on some clips, but nothing anywhere at the time, though they have just re-released them!

 

I loved the sound of the 15 series, perfect for blues fingerpicking except the nut was a bit skinny but playable at 1 11/16". At first it sounded great and then after reading the know it all threads, found out you were nowhere unless you put bone nut, saddle and pins on it! Which I did, with a great setup but it sounded too bitey now and then went through the Doldrums of rediscovering itself (nice word for sounding sh.....). I know now that what a mahogany top guitar needs is some heavy picking to break the top in and I cheated with a Tonerite I bought and played it with fingerpicks and..and.. bought my Gibson Blues King L-00 and left the 15 in the case.

 

But then later I grabbed it and it had sorted itself out! Glues dried, I suppose, and now it is a great little guitar.

 

A few years back I bought the origin of the species - a 1944 Martin 0-17 all mahogany - same kind of sound but old and smoky and cigars and whisky and all that as well.

 

So for your next guitar buy, give some consideration to the bigger sister 00-17 or the little 0-17. Smoky bacon soaked in whisky! I wouldn't want to try to break in a huge mahogany top on a J45 with my bare finger picking - it could take a hundred years, but you know, if you afford a 40s one it could be halfway there for you?

 

 

BluesKing777.

[sbpark]

I have the Martin 000c-15e which is the cutaway and Fishman electronics version of the first 000-15 from the 15 series that came out about 1998. I have had mine close to 10 years now and the 15 series were the only mahogany top guitars you could get here at the time - I tried the D15e but really wanted the OM15 I had read about in my new discovery at the time - the UMGF, but none around. I also was keen on the all mahogany Guild M20 like Lightning Hopkins had on some clips, but nothing anywhere at the time, though they have just re-released them!

 

I loved the sound of the 15 series, perfect for blues fingerpicking except the nut was a bit skinny but playable at 1 11/16". At first it sounded great and then after reading the know it all threads, found out you were nowhere unless you put bone nut, saddle and pins on it! Which I did, with a great setup but it sounded too bitey now and then went through the Doldrums of rediscovering itself (nice word for sounding sh.....). I know now that what a mahogany top guitar needs is some heavy picking to break the top in and I cheated with a Tonerite I bought and played it with fingerpicks and..and.. bought my Gibson Blues King L-00 and left the 15 in the case.

 

But then later I grabbed it and it had sorted itself out! Glues dried, I suppose, and now it is a great little guitar.

 

A few years back I bought the origin of the species - a 1944 Martin 0-17 all mahogany - same kind of sound but old and smoky and cigars and whisky and all that as well.

 

So for your next guitar buy, give some consideration to the bigger sister 00-17 or the little 0-17. Smoky bacon soaked in whisky! I wouldn't want to try to break in a huge mahogany top on a J45 with my bare finger picking - it could take a hundred years, but you know, if you afford a 40s one it could be halfway there for you?

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

Nice observations, there. Funny, I actually prefer my 000-15M to the 17 Series. Call me crazy, but the 00-17's seem more of a one-trick pony to me, while the 000-15M is more versatile for my needs. I'll agree when they are new an all-mahogany guitar can be great for finger picking but a little harsh when strummed hard, kind of has a threshold and implodes on itself and it's not suer pleasing. I'd pick it up now and then and finger pick it, but would also just hit it pretty hard with a pick now and then. After about a year and a half that pretty much went away on mine, and now it's a great strummer. The all-hog J45 I played today was a great strummer right off the rack. Still trying to restrain myself from ordering one from MF/GC because they also have their own special limited edition run of these, but they are done in the traditional J45 style with sunburst, banner logo and white button tuners, as opposed to the other special run that I played today that was natural finish and gold butterbean tuners and modern abalone logo. Still had the heart of a J45, but just warmer and rounder than a spruce topped J45. I find that some J45's with spruce tops can be a bit thin or tinny, and the all-hog J45 I played was just a great balanced guitar. Here's the exact guitar I played:

 

[62burst]

 

. . . A few years back I bought the origin of the species - a 1944 Martin 0-17 all mahogany - . . .

 

Good one, Darwin. The 17 series are one of the last great values in old Martins.

 

 

I would never be without a J45 here.. only thing that gets removed are the inboard pickup systems..

 

Same here.

 

 

 

 

Here's the exact guitar I played:

 

 

Sounds great. But thanks to the dialogue before the demo, there is little double that a good part of that lively sound is due to some serious reflected sound in the room.

 

Glad to see someone besides me feels 100% 'hog guitars are butt ugly.

 

( I hope this doesn't come back and bite me in the butt in 20 years when I run for President.)

 

Mahoganist! You're definitely going to blow it with the mahogany vote when you run for P.O.T.U.S. in 20 years.

 

(non-working link):

 

[sbpark]

 

 

Sounds great. But thanks to the dialogue before the demo, there is little double that a good part of that lively sound is due to some serious reflected sound in the room.

 

 

I'm going to respectfully disagree since I played that exact guitar in the shop today. When I say exact guitar I don't mean the same model, I mean that exact guitar that is in the video, and it was in a different setting/different room and still sounded as good.

[62burst]

Please don't get me wrong, I loved the sound of that guitar. Just as some will say that they can hear a great guitar through terribly bad strings, the reflected sound of the guitar in the video allowed the dynamics of the guitar to be heard all the better (was looking for string break at saddle). Bringing up the room sound was just something I was noticing how hearing the person doing the demo talking a little before playing gives a hint about what's going to color the perception of the sound of the guitar by the listener.

[sbpark]

Please don't get me wrong, I loved the sound of that guitar. Just as some will say that they can hear a great guitar through terribly bad strings, the reflected sound of the guitar in the video allowed the dynamics of the guitar to be heard all the better (was looking for string break at saddle). Bringing up the room sound was just something I was noticing how hearing the person doing the demo talking a little before playing gives a hint about what's going to color the perception of the sound of the guitar by the listener.

 

Fair enough. I actually felt the same way when I watched the video the other day (before playing the guitar). Said to myself, this guitar sounds great, but it's probably just the room. Was pleasantly surprised. Too bad it's butt-ugly.

[62burst]

Too bad it's butt-ugly.

 

Right.

[BluesKing777]

Nice observations, there. Funny, I actually prefer my 000-15M to the 17 Series. Call me crazy, but the 00-17's seem more of a one-trick pony to me, while the 000-15M is more versatile for my needs. I'll agree when they are new an all-mahogany guitar can be great for finger picking but a little harsh when strummed hard, kind of has a threshold and implodes on itself and it's not suer pleasing. I'd pick it up now and then and finger pick it, but would also just hit it pretty hard with a pick now and then. After about a year and a half that pretty much went away on mine, and now it's a great strummer. The all-hog J45 I played today was a great strummer right off the rack. Still trying to restrain myself from ordering one from MF/GC because they also have their own special limited edition run of these, but they are done in the traditional J45 style with sunburst, banner logo and white button tuners, as opposed to the other special run that I played today that was natural finish and gold butterbean tuners and modern abalone logo. Still had the heart of a J45, but just warmer and rounder than a spruce topped J45. I find that some J45's with spruce tops can be a bit thin or tinny, and the all-hog J45 I played was just a great balanced guitar. Here's the exact guitar I played:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ha!

 

Sounds like you have decided already!

 

 

Just in case, here is my irresistible blues picking old time 0-17:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and some other mahogany friends:

 

 

 

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

[fortyearspickn]

I have to admit, when posed like that they do posses a certain charm. That one in the middle looks like it would be picked by Central Casting for a supporting role in "The Life of John Lee Hooker". Nice.

[Rambler]

That one in the middle looks like it would be picked by Central Casting for a supporting role in "The Life of John Lee Hooker".

I hear where are coming from, but Hook's acoustic of choice in the 60s folk revival was a Goya dread.

 

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1273&bih=625&q=john+lee+hooker+acoustic&oq=john+lee+hooker+acoustic&gs_l=img.3...917.5583.0.5952.24.9.0.15.15.0.157.957.5j4.9.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..0.15.968...0.xGhXaIdkNyU#imgrc=w7XMJV6A3S2NPM%3A

[Jesse_Dylan]

i say that because in my OPINION martins under the style 18 are built with an eye to cost savings, nice for the price, but folks who tend to "go thru " guitars can sometimes not be happy with anything but standard built guitars, they are better, as to selling a j 45 for a 15, Id think the 45 is a better guitar. remember-forums are platforms for opinions and I only have 1, my own...

I actually agree with the fella, to an extent.

 

We part ways when it comes to J-45 vs. J-15 though, as they are fundamentally identical except for wood and ornamentation. I think the J-15 is one of the best values in American guitars, right up there with the Guild D-20, and as far as features for money go, they blow the Martin 15s away.

 

That's not to say the 15s aren't good guitars. They are good guitars. Their value is just upended somewhat by the J-15 and D-20.

 

This is of course all based upon traditional vs. non-traditional design, and it just so happens the traditional designs cost more, which is why I keep harping about value.

 

But in the end, it just comes down to different, not better/worse. I just tend to prefer the traditional, like the dovetail neck joint, the traditional bracing versus a compromised bracing made to fit the standardized neck joint... The don't sound better/worse (and some very fine, and not so fine, guitars are made with bolt-on necks), but a hand-fitted dovetail is certainly more resonant than their old mortise and tenon or the CNC-made "simple dovetail" they replaced it with (though it's a great improvement over the M&T).

 

I nearly bought a D-15, did enjoy it, and probably liked the 000-15 even more for the record (just something about them), til I was smitten by a Guild D-20 instead. At the time, I knew up and down the differences between the Guild D-20 and the Martin D-15 and could go on and on about how the D-20 was less cost for more guitar (again, i.e. more traditional). I can't remember anymore now. :) I would definitely have bought the Martin D-15, because there just was no competition anywhere near that price for an all-mahogany dreadnought, but then in walked the Guild D-20 at just the right time.

 

And as much as I love my Guild D-20 and would recommend it to just about anyone, I wouldn't trade even it for my J-15, which I consider somewhat of a miracle in modern American manufacturing.

[Jesse_Dylan]

Oh yeah, my original response to the original question of "Sold my J-45... now what?" (which I forgot about in all this fervor) was to say-- If you're anything like me, you'll replace it with a J-15, fall in love with the J-15, and still regret selling the J-45 for the rest of your life!

[fortyearspickn]

I hear where are coming from, but Hook's acoustic of choice in the 60s folk revival was a Goya dread.

 

https://www.google.c...XMJV6A3S2NPM%3A

 

Goya, Guild, Gibson

We had some great Guitars to chose from back in the day. THANKS!

[sbpark]

Oh yeah, my original response to the original question of "Sold my J-45... now what?" (which I forgot about in all this fervor) was to say-- If you're anything like me, you'll replace it with a J-15, fall in love with the J-15, and still regret selling the J-45 for the rest of your life!

 

Well, I don't regret selling THAT particular J45 but I do miss having a short scale slope shoulder around. Theres a Nick Lowe song I just learned with a pretty decent reach in the first position, and all I could think to myself playing it on the AJ was, darn, a short scale would really come in handy right about now! It was ok, but nothing mind blowing. I played another Standard the other day and it was very similar to my old one...very dull and lifeless. I played an SJ and it was a very lively guitar. That one almost came home with me. I brought my AJ along just to compare and left with just my AJ (was going to trade in or sell the AJ privately to justify getting another J45/variant). I was surprised when I preferred my AJ over the J45 Standard, 2015 J45 TV, and a 2016 SJ. Of the lot the SJ was the clear winner. I even strung my AJ with 80/20's the day prior to make it a more even comparison since these are the strings Gibson ships their guitars with. Seems like I am preferring the fuller, bigger bottom end that the AJ produces at the moment. I just wish the AJ's neck wasn't so thin, but really it's something I can live with. I was ready to plunk down the cash and really wanted to take a new guitar home, but couldn't justify it even though that SJ sounded really sweet, it was no contest on the fuller, richer sounding AJ. Saved me some cash though, that's for sure!

[Jesse_Dylan]

I'm surprised you liked the SJ. Should be pretty much the same as a J-45, just different decoration, right? If you hadn't owned a J-45 and found it dull and lifeless, I would blame the strings. But you tried to even that out as well.

 

J-45s are quite thumpy. J-15s are, too, but the walnut gives it a little more spank, or something. Or you could try to find a J-45 with maple back and sides, or try one with rosewood... Or maybe look into different short-scales, like a Nick Lucas (!) in maple, or a J-185 (now we're talking).

 

Or... you could look at other brands... meh.

[sbpark]

Played another new Southern Jumbo and really liked it. Sort of agonizing about whether or not to pull the trigger. As mentioned earlier in this post, all my other guitars are long scale, 2 Martins (HD-28, 000-15M) and a Gibson AJ. The herd feels a bit empty without a short scale slope shoulder. I've given myself a few days cooling off to see if I really want the guitar or not, and I'm trying to be a responsible adult! I'm torn on what to do!

[jvi]

if you want something in this life -GRAB IT-