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chairpa

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hello everyone

i am looking for a Gibson dealer that will do 40% of list or better.

The current dealer i was using is an older dealer and he did not renew with Gibson.

Any leads will be appreciated.

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hello everyone

i am looking for a Gibson dealer that will do 40% of list or better.

The current dealer i was using is an older dealer and he did not renew with Gibson.

Any leads will be appreciated.

 

Probably depends on which guitar you are looking whether a dealer will do a 40% discount. I'd start by calling the AAA dealers listed on Gibson's web site.

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respectfully, is this best way to decide where or what to buy ? perhaps who is the best source?

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Every guitar that I have bought is based on the best price I can get. Nothing unusual about that.

E M Shorts frequenty is mentioned as a dealer who offers a great price...give em a call.

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price is a factor, and everyone wants a deal.... but it's not a guitar pedal. it's a wooden, handmade guitar. They are all different and if it costs me 5% more to get THE one that speaks to me, then I pay it. I hear such a difference between different individuals within the same model. I just couldn't order one because it cost a little less. WAY too much variation. I have played dogs and gems made the same day with sequential serial numbers.

 

 

 

 

Keith

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... i am looking for a Gibson dealer that will do 40% of list or better. ...

 

Most.

 

Typically the MAP (minimum advertise price) is about 23% off the MSRP (manufacturers suggested retail price). Then you can usually haggle the price another 15% - 20% or so. That total off the MSRP is around 40%.

 

If you find a dealer willing to go 40% off the MAP, please let us know who it is.

 

Modoc (Keith) makes a very good point.

 

 

.

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On Gibson website it has the price as 3349.00 I believe. I have not seen it for sale in any stores in my area for less, granted we don't have a lot of stores and not a lot(3) that even carry Gibson acoustics. My point is I don't see a MSRP and a MSLP for Gibson's ever.

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If you want a variety of stores to shop amongst you have to support them with your spending. I believe that this diversity is a good thing because history is rife with examples of what happens when it gets down to only one maker/distributor of something....the recent Epi pen fiasco being an example that comes to mind. Having said that, I think the trend since the advent of the internet has wiped out more places you can walk in to and play a guitar than anything I can think of and I don't see this trend slowing down. Looking at the trajectory since about 1998 I can only conclude that the brick and mortar guitar world will probably be reduced to Gruhn's, Gryphon's, Schoenberg's and Elderly within twenty years (tongue in cheek)and given what happened to Mandolin Brothers on the passing of its owner even that might be an optimistic outlook. We decide, with our spending, what is available to us.

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Are you looking for uppers or downers ... or something in between ?

 

OP sounds like he's already n some sort of hallucinogenic expecting such a ridiculous deal on a new guitar.

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Are you looking for uppers or downers ... or something in between ?

 

OP sounds like he's already n some sort of hallucinogenic expecting such a ridiculous deal on a new guitar.

 

I found theres a realistic approach you have to come to and decide what's more important to you and what will make you happier, walking away with a killer deal or walking around with a killer guitar? Obviously it's not impossible to have both, but not the norm. I used to chase price and pride myself on getting the "best deal". Now i'm more about being patient, finding the sound that pleases me the most then determine if the asking price is worth it. If I can get a deal even better, but if it's a really great sounding guitar I'll pay, of pass if I don't think it's worth it.

 

Sounds like OP is more motivated and excited about getting a better deal than getting a killer sounding guitar. No problem with that, since we all have what motivates us to want to own guitars.

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OP sounds like he's already n some sort of hallucinogenic expecting such a ridiculous deal on a new guitar.

 

I found theres a realistic approach you have to come to and decide what's more important to you and what will make you happier, walking away with a killer deal or walking around with a killer guitar? Obviously it's not impossible to have both, but not the norm. I used to chase price and pride myself on getting the "best deal". Now i'm more about being patient, finding the sound that pleases me the most then determine if the asking price is worth it. If I can get a deal even better, but if it's a really great sounding guitar I'll pay, of pass if I don't think it's worth it.

 

Sounds like OP is more motivated and excited about getting a better deal than getting a killer sounding guitar. No problem with that, since we all have what motivates us to want to own guitars.

 

 

Agree 100% I also agree that shopping at a variety of places helps prevent dominance of the market thus rising prices, Gibson kinda creates the same effects by requiring too much to become a dealer thus fewer stores carry them.

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We decide, with our spending, what is available to us.

 

I don't agree.

 

Myself and all the guys in bands around here we all shopped at the three local stores, including a really big Gibson guy. We didn't ask Gibson to jack the franchise amount. We didn't ask Fender to require two truckloads instead of one. We didn't ask GC to have ZERO Gibson acoustics hanging. We didn't ask for any of this.

 

Three of my 11 guitars are from Milwaukee WI, one is from Orlando FL. Two are from local guys, neither of which have been in business for a long long time. I actually only shop for guitars in stores when I leave here! The rest I can get online. Well, I have to, I don't have a choice like lots of people.

 

We didn't decide this, the major retailers and their corroboration with major makers did this, not us. If you lived around here you'd be buying sub 400 dollar beginner Ibanez acoustics because that's about all they sell at GC, the only store within almost 60 miles.

 

rct

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On Gibson website it has the price as 3349.00 I believe. I have not seen it for sale in any stores in my area for less, granted we don't have a lot of stores and not a lot(3) that even carry Gibson acoustics. My point is I don't see a MSRP and a MSLP for Gibson's ever.

 

There's a coupla brick and mortar shops by me that list the MSRP and the MAP. The Gibson website has changed. They used to display the MSRP (currently $4,298.00), but now they display the MAP (that $3349 you've seen) and provide links to dealers. Most dealers display both and hype the difference as a discount. Here's Sweetwater as an example - https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SSHBHCNP?adpos=1o1&creative=55392802681&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&product_id=SSHBHCNP&gclid=Cj0KEQiAzZHEBRD0ivi9_pDzgYMBEiQAtvxt-FAJSgqElDqkZwm3DjGHCkf0MPkaVBR9I3f3cOgB2p8aArT08P8HAQ

 

Gibson does not allow authorized dealers to advertise anything less than the MAP. BUT, you can in fact buy the guitars for less than the MAP, but you've got to haggle the price down with the seller.

 

 

@mountainpicker - Elderly is local to me. You might not know, but Gibson pulled Elderly's contract/authorization years ago (2005) in a squabble/suit over the advertising of 'Gibson copy' banjos. Stan tried a coupla times to rectify the situation, but Gibson wouldn't budge. As a result, Elderly hasn't dealt ANY NEW Gibson products since then - only used - no new banjos, no new mandolins, no new guitars, nothing new from Gibson. Henry can be brutal. To echo what RCT has commented - In the Elderly debacle Gibson cited a contract stipulation that retailers should not carry any competing brands of banjos and mandolins. Brutal.

 

 

.

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There's a coupla brick and mortar shops by me that list the MSRP and the MAP. The Gibson website has changed. They used to display the MSRP (currently $4,298.00), but now they display the MAP (that $3349 you've seen) and provide links to dealers. Most dealers display both and hype the difference as a discount. Here's Sweetwater as an example - https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SSHBHCNP?adpos=1o1&creative=55392802681&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&product_id=SSHBHCNP&gclid=Cj0KEQiAzZHEBRD0ivi9_pDzgYMBEiQAtvxt-FAJSgqElDqkZwm3DjGHCkf0MPkaVBR9I3f3cOgB2p8aArT08P8HAQ

 

Gibson does not allow authorized dealers to advertise anything less than the MAP. BUT, you can in fact buy the guitars for less than the MAP, but you've got to haggle the price down with the seller.

 

 

@mountainpicker - Elderly is local to me. You might not know, but Gibson pulled Elderly's contract/authorization years ago (2005) in a squabble/suit over the advertising of 'Gibson copy' banjos. Stan tried a coupla times to rectify the situation, but Gibson wouldn't budge. As a result, Elderly hasn't dealt ANY NEW Gibson products since then - only used - no new banjos, no new mandolins, no new guitars, nothing new from Gibson. Henry can be brutal. To echo what RCT has commented - In the Elderly debacle Gibson cited a contract stipulation that retailers should not carry any competing brands of banjos and mandolins. Brutal.

 

 

.

 

 

I have been to Elderly's once,I live almost three hours from there, I wondered then why they had zero new Gibsons. I am used to seeing zero acoustic but when they had no electrics it made me curious as to why that was.

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To echo what RCT has commented - In the Elderly debacle Gibson cited a contract stipulation that retailers should not carry any competing brands of banjos and mandolins. Brutal.

 

My Tele is from a store about 40 miles from here, 20 years ago or so. They were a big Fender/Gibson place, Martin and Taylor in the acoustic saloon. Taylor decided they would not hang in the same room as Martin, and one had to go. That was the beginning of the end of that store. They couldn't hack the franchise with Gibson the following year, and after he dropped Martin Taylor came along and said they wanted even more stuff in his store. The original owners sold it but kept the studio, the studio went a couple years later. The new owners dropped all the big names. They haven't sold a guitar that costs more than 400 dollars for more than a decade now.

 

Brutal is the word. We didn't do that. We buy G and F and M, and even some T. We buy them. They consolidated, they made the little guys no longer able to carry them, not us. For me, within 100 miles of my house, if I don't like whats in the GC a few miles from me, I can go to the GC and Sam Ash 50 miles from here and look at the same stuff. It's how it is in a lot of places I guess.

 

rct

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My Tele is from a store about 40 miles from here, 20 years ago or so. They were a big Fender/Gibson place, Martin and Taylor in the acoustic saloon. Taylor decided they would not hang in the same room as Martin, and one had to go. That was the beginning of the end of that store. They couldn't hack the franchise with Gibson the following year, and after he dropped Martin Taylor came along and said they wanted even more stuff in his store. The original owners sold it but kept the studio, the studio went a couple years later. The new owners dropped all the big names. They haven't sold a guitar that costs more than 400 dollars for more than a decade now.

 

Brutal is the word. We didn't do that. We buy G and F and M, and even some T. We buy them. They consolidated, they made the little guys no longer able to carry them, not us. For me, within 100 miles of my house, if I don't like whats in the GC a few miles from me, I can go to the GC and Sam Ash 50 miles from here and look at the same stuff. It's how it is in a lot of places I guess.

 

rct

 

 

Yes it is,At least in my area.

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The OP may not have gotten the answer he was looking for: No comments from him since his original question.

In the meantime, here's some context on his expecting a 40% discount, and the 'bricks and mortar' direction this thread has meandered .....

 

 

 

To expect a 40% discount off MSRP, which is simply a frame of reference - is reminiscent of the old cliche 'Never Pay Retail' - on steroids.

Taylor and Martin produce over 60 THOUSAND guitars each, annually. Add that up and you get 120,000.

Bozeman produces around 12 Thousand. One-tenth.

So, JUST FOR THOSE TWO makers - you see they have at least 108 Thousand More Opportunities To Make Money than Gibson has.

The average selling price (I'm guessing here) of a Taylor or Martin is probably half of Gibson's - because the models they sell the most of are much cheaper. It might be if the OP wants an inexpensive Name Brand, he needs to get a Mexican Martin.

 

In order to stay on top of a growing market, Gibson had to look at the coming changes in the acoustic market decades ago. They had to upgrade their obsolete Kalamazoo plant, which resulted in moving to MT. And, yes, they also had to drastically cut back on the number of dealers they allowed to serve as middle men in bringing their guitars to the market. This focus benefited everyone, including the customer. Most people are aware of the concept: we've all heard phrases like "We are an authorized Rolex Dealer" . Do we gripe because you can't get a Rolex at a better price at Walmart? Forget Rolex - you can't get Seiko or Citizen there either.

While the 'David and Goliath' scenario appeals to those who want to point the finger of blame at evil 'big' business s - it is laughable. In recent years, approximately 1.2 MILLION acoustic or a/e guitars were sold annually in the US. Their average selling price is probably around $350. So, obviously, how Bozeman prices and markets their paltry 12,000 did not put your local guitar store out of business. Even holding your breath until Mom&Pop gave you a 40% discount didn't either. It's the internet. If the OP was actually legit, he will eventually go on the internet and buy the guitar ( That Has The Price Tag) of his dreams. We have recognized the enemy and it is us.

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hile the 'David and Goliath' scenario appeals to those who want to point the finger of blame at evil 'big' business s - it is laughable. In recent years, approximately 1.2 MILLION acoustic or a/e guitars were sold annually in the US. Their average selling price is probably around $350. So, obviously, how Bozeman prices and markets their paltry 12,000 did not put your local guitar store out of business.

 

No, the 12k acoustics didn't, the egregious requirements for the privilege of selling them did. There is more to selling Gibson acoustics than just getting a halfa dozen in for the cognoscenti. There's the 15 faded SGs and the three hundred Epiphones you have to pony up for, like it or not. It took a while, but I watched it happen to two of our best local stores.

 

rct

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Last fall when I was shopping for a new acoustic I called a very well known Gibson 5 Star dealer about an hour from me just to get an idea of their inventory before making the drive. Spoke to the manager and he ended up telling me how they will no longer be carrying Gibson because of their absolutely ridiculous purchasing requirements they put on dealers. Gibson basically sets the dollar amount of inventory that the shop has to spend upfront at the beginning of the year, and simply put, the dealer really has no control over this, and if they cannot purchase that amount, or refuse to, they are no longer a Gibson dealer. I was told that it's based off the previous year's sales and he told me last years sales, and what Gibson determined they have to purchase to remain a dealer for the following year and it was just ridiculous. I don't blame shops like Elderly for stating up to them and deciding not to be a Gibson dealer.

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I live in Canada so we have far fewer options than you folks in the States do. About 1/10th the population and a $ that is somewhere in the 75 cent territory compared to U.S. So it's tougher to find very many places other than Long and McQuade in which to find Gibsons since L&M's parent company are the sole importers for Gibson and Epiphone. Even at smaller mom and pop stores they'll tell you what it's like to deal with other brands say, like Fender, where the head office monitors your sales of their guitars to ensure that no-one cuts prices. I suppose it's simply a numbers game and the big guys can beat up on the minnows, but even so deals can be had if one checks sites such as this and surfs around places like Reverb to establish realistic base values.I picked up a J-45 for a reasonable cost after doing research and waiting the dealer out. He finally met me at a price I was comfortable paying. A bit of patience comes in handy in this game,also. Most of the time we don't have to have a given instrument immediately, but as we all know, when GAS hits it's hard to stay calm!

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Last fall when I was shopping for a new acoustic I called a very well known Gibson 5 Star dealer about an hour from me just to get an idea of their inventory before making the drive. Spoke to the manager and he ended up telling me how they will no longer be carrying Gibson because of their absolutely ridiculous purchasing requirements they put on dealers. Gibson basically sets the dollar amount of inventory that the shop has to spend upfront at the beginning of the year, and simply put, the dealer really has no control over this, and if they cannot purchase that amount, or refuse to, they are no longer a Gibson dealer. I was told that it's based off the previous year's sales and he told me last years sales, and what Gibson determined they have to purchase to remain a dealer for the following year and it was just ridiculous. I don't blame shops like Elderly for stating up to them and deciding not to be a Gibson dealer.

Your dealer's information is absolutely correct. And the situation, from the position of anyone other than exponents of corporate greed, is not good for anyone. Gibson closed the Kalamazoo facility primarily as an exercise in union busting, moved to Nashville for the purpose of hiring cheap non-union workers, went to Montana when it came to be obvious that you can't build decent acoustic guitars with the work force they'd recruited in Nashville, and soon began making outrageous demands on dealers who wanted to carry their instruments. The process of eliminating small dealers and depriving larger ones of autonomy began in the mid 1990's and has escalated since that time. Proponents of such behavior have hailed all this as corporate genius, while opponents have hailed it as corporate evil. Most of us just get to be spectators, and how we're prone to see it will depend on individual perspectives, the likes of which are pretty common lately.

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Your dealer's information is absolutely correct. And the situation, from the position of anyone other than exponents of corporate greed, is not good for anyone. Gibson closed the Kalamazoo facility primarily as an exercise in union busting, moved to Nashville for the purpose of hiring cheap non-union workers, went to Montana when it came to be obvious that you can't build decent acoustic guitars with the work force they'd recruited in Nashville, and soon began making outrageous demands on dealers who wanted to carry their instruments. The process of eliminating small dealers and depriving larger ones of autonomy began in the mid 1990's and has escalated since that time. Proponents of such behavior have hailed all this as corporate genius, while opponents have hailed it as corporate evil. Most of us just get to be spectators, and how we're prone to see it will depend on individual perspectives, the likes of which are pretty common lately.

 

We can also choose not to buy new guitars from this company (or other companies participating in similar practices. What Fender started doing in the last year or two is similar). At this point I'm not buying any more guitars for a long time but that's a totally different story (but when the time comes I'm only buying used). I know just one person not buying a new Gibson wont affect the company, but given their's (and other companies, not just Gibson's) greedy practices and horrible treatment of smaller dealers and the surplus of high quality, used guitars out there currently guitar players could put a nice dent in their loss of revenue.

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