Black Lotus Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Hi Folks, I'm getting ready, (this weekend?) to buy a Les Paul and a Fender Blues Junior amp, but I'd like some help in finalizing my decision (Classic or...?). The Guitar Center nearest me has an ebony Classic re-issue with the 500T and the 496R pickups for about 2k. I'd prefer one with a more "natural, or wood grained based finish, but the black is all I've found in the Classic line. After a lot of research, the Classic "looks like" the best choice for me. I need to make (and I know myself pretty well) a serious investment in getting into something new, so I'm willing to spend at least that much for a start with guitars. I'm mid-50s, and having started with synths of all kinds in the late 70s, I'm ready to try something new. Always liked the look, feel, and sound of the LP. As further motivation, my 12 year old musician daughter is getting a (way less expensive) Strat, so we'll have some father-daughter time practicing together. I'm most interested in tonal textures, pure sound, feedback, overdrive, tubes-breaking up, etc. as my synthesis methods have always been about evolving analog textures. I plan on running the LP into custom-built analog processors at some point too, just for the sound. I'm actually not even that much interested in playing "songs", especially other people's. Gotta make my own mistakes.:)/ So raw sound is my main interest. (Though learning to play a little Fat Possum Record blues would be a side aspiration!) So this GC store Classic I've seen looks to be new-ish, with only little vertical cracks in the binding on both sides of the neck right at some of the frets (not all. Is that normal for a new LP?). Other than that it looks good, and sounds like the sound I want to start with! I took an experienced Fender player with me to check it out, and got total thumbs up on this particular Classic after he and the sales guy both played it, a Standard, and a Traditional LP into a Fender Twin Reverb. (We decided that I wouldn't need that much wattage at home, as I would usually have the gain so low, that the tubes would be under-utilized.) It sounded better than either of the others to my untrained ear as well--sweet! So to recap the questions: 1.little cracks ok (or is it a secretly, used model)? 2. other woody finishes available for the classic? 3. (optional) Am I nuts to even consider this thing? So, any and all opinions would be very much appreciated. John Black Lotus Sound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 1.little cracks ok (or is it a secretly' date=' used model)? 2. other woody finishes available for the classic? 3. (optional) Am I nuts to even consider this thing?[/quote'] 1) Little cracks in the finish are OK. As long as the wood is OK too! 2) Yes, but I believe the Classic to be a discontinued model, so you'd have to search for your ideal instrument. 3) No; You were nuts to stick with synthesizers for so long. 4) Just kidding with (3). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPguitarman Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 New Classics and Classic Antiques have been discontinued by Gibson. You may be able to find some in the stores still. Classic Antiques offer Flamed Maple tops in a variety of finishes. The most popular is probably Cherry Sunburst. You can also still find Classics in Sunburst finishes rather than solid painted finishes. I have a Classic Antique (see avatar). The Classics & Antiques also have chambered bodies which give weight relief and a more acoustic tone (which I love in both cases). I'd shy away from cracks in the binding. It may have been exposed to some extreme weather conditions which may also say it is used. Whatever you find, play it first to see how it feels. Or have a friend play it to get his opinion. Good luck... and nobody who considers buying a Gibson Les Paul is nuts. It is, in my opinion, the best guitar in the world... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Black Lotus, I'm an ex synth guy in my 50's as well... I got loads of old analog synths in my studio; Arp, Moog, Oberhiem....etc Anyway about two years ago I decided to take up guitar too.... It's a Steep learning curve to get the fingers doing what they have to do but it gets easier, trust me. Since you have your daughter to learn with that's a big help too... My first guitar was a LP Classic heritage cherry sunburst... I love it. The 500T and the 496R are very hot pick ups though. Many people complain that the guitar is too limited in the type of sounds you can get from it. They say its great for Hard Rock and metal but not right for the more subtle jazz or bluesy stuff.... I just lowered my pick ups way down and that makes a big difference... Other people complain about the greenish colored inlays in the finger board, often referred to as snot green. My Classic's inlays aren't so green they look more yellowish like aged white would look. Doesn't bother me. It is a great guitar. You could always change the pick ups later on down the road if you feel you need to... I'd say go for the classic if the things I mention don't bother you. Another thing, the Classic is chambered. So its not so heavy, won't brake your back... A plus at over 50ish...:- I think the chambered LPs sound great. Do a search in the forum on Chambered verses weight relieved and solid, There has been lots of discussion on the topic.... I'm not sure about those little cracks can you post some pics??? Mine doesn't have any little cracks... None of my LPs do... Good luck!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobv Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 For comparison you might want to shop around and try other models so you'll have better confidence in the purchase. There's a current model "traditional" which is weight-relieved instead of chambered (so it's heavier, lets leave it at that), has a rounded neck profile (fatter than the 1960 slim taper neck on the Classic), and chrome-covered pickups ('57 classics) that are not as hot as the open-coiled, ceramic-magnet pickups in the Classic (there was definitely a differenec when I played a Traditional and a Classic through - you guessed it - a Blues Jr. at the store recently). The Traditional also comes in several burst colors with a reasonably figured flame maple top (or plain black or gold). Each of these features makes a noticeable difference so go with what you like. Best customer is an educated consumer and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJustice Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Hi John! I've also been into electronic music for the last 25 years or so. Like you I recently decided to pick up the guitar - you just have to at some point, eh? It goes well with electronics too! So much fun and so much to learn :-) I'm most interested in tonal textures, pure sound, feedback, overdrive, tubes-breaking up, etc. as my synthesis methods have always been about evolving analog textures. I plan on running the LP into custom-built analog processors at some point too, just for the sound. I'm actually not even that much interested in playing "songs", especially other people's. Gotta make my own mistakes.:-/ So raw sound is my main interest. Although the raw sound is exciting, as an old hand in synthesis you owe it to yourself to try out a Roland VG-99; it's an amazing device for sound exploration together with the raw guitar tone. 3. (optional) Am I nuts to even consider this thing? Nope - you're doing the right thing. Good luck with your Les Paul! DJ -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LPC Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Black Lotus, you say the Classic looks 'newish' and has little cracks in the binding at some frets. I've seen cracks like this when LPs have been refretted. Just wondering if it's older than it appears... If you have a minimoog - (it remains just a dream for me) you can obviously plug in for some amazing sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 As long as they don't point to something structural in the neck-join area you should be OK. Best idea is take along a friend who knows more about these things than you do. Small cracks shouldn't matter. These continue onto the binding and are cosmetic only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Lotus Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 Wow, this is really good! Thank you guys. David, your background makes me really appreciate your ideas. Some of my intuitions are confirmed and definitely you have some insights I would never have gotten at this point in the my search. I'll see if I can get a pic of those cracks, though if I'm in the store with cash in hand, (that GC is 70 miles away from me) I'll likely be buying something! :-) But you guys have got me thinking more about how to get /find a color I want to live it ("burst colors with a reasonably figured flame maple top"). For pure sound/tone I'm thinking what I heard was, the Classic as hotter and sweet than the Trad or the Standard. Just to my ear, but I realize my ear is immature in guitar" so to speak. Looks-wise the bursts are so appealing, but sonically to my poor ears, its the classic. Think I can live with 2nd best in looks, for 1st place in sound if that's the case...I guess...! And does "lowering the pick-ups" mean lowering the gain knobs? Also, if I pick up this classic, I wanted to swap out the top hat knobs for the speed knobs. A useful idea or just a matter of taste? Really great insights folks; beyond "just the facts". Thanks. John Black Lotus Sound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Lotus Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 Black Lotus' date=' you say the Classic looks 'newish' and has little cracks in the binding at some frets. I've seen cracks like this when LPs have been refretted. Just wondering if it's older than it appears... If you have a minimoog - (it remains just a dream for me) you can obviously plug in for some amazing sounds. [/quote'] Man, I wish! But here's one of my main squeezes. Had it made by electro wizard Dann Green of 4mspedals: http://4mspedals.com/showpic.php?id=1003 and http://4mspedals.com/showpic.php?id=1346 Blowing in the weird!! John Black Lotus Sound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Also' date=' if I pick up this classic, I wanted to swap out the top hat knobs for the speed knobs. A useful idea or just a matter of taste?[/quote'] Certainly a useful idea; simply try both types and see which work best for you. There is no right and wrong on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LPC Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Man' date=' I wish! But here's one of my main squeezes. Had it made by electro wizard Dann Green of 4mspedals: [/quote'] That thing's crazy ! Would love to hear it ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 does "lowering the pick-ups" mean lowering the gain knobs? Hey John, No, I don't mean turn down the volume I mean lower the pick ups.... Both the neck and bridge pick up have an adjustment screw on both sides of the pick up. Depending which way you turn the screws the pick ups will raise closer or further away from the strings. To compensate for the pick ups being so hot I lowered the pick ups further away from the strings... Cleaned things right up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Lotus Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 Hey John' date=' No, I don't mean turn down the volume I mean lower the pick ups.... Both the neck and bridge pick up have an adjustment screw on both sides of the pick up. Depending which way you turn the screws the pick ups will raise closer or further away from the strings. To compensate for the pick ups being so hot I lowered the pick ups further away from the strings... Cleaned things right up... [/quote'] Ah ha! Got you. Man! The things I don't know....! We'll see. $$ in hand today, but at 54, I oughta be wise and slow enough not to get "too" excited once I get in the store, eh?:D I spent some time looking at those beautiful Standards and their many burst colors. Sigh....I'd love a more natural color but will likely count myself lucky to get the ebony Classical in any case. Those hotter pick-up sounded fantastic, yet seeing a Gary Moore with a Goldtop, youtube clip leads me to understand that probably any LP can be pretty hot! Can't go wrong, I guess, as long as it sounds and feels good to me. John Black Lotus Sound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Lotus Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 Hi John! I've also been into electronic music for the last 25 years or so. Like you I recently decided to pick up the guitar - you just have to at some point' date=' eh? It goes well with electronics too! So much fun and so much to learn :-) Although the raw sound is exciting, as an old hand in synthesis you owe it to yourself to try out a Roland VG-99; it's an amazing device for sound exploration together with the raw guitar tone. Nope - you're doing the right thing. Good luck with your Les Paul! DJ --[/quote'] Thanks Dr. Justice! I'll look into the Roland. Love any kind of electro weirdness anyway. :D John Black Lotus Sound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Lotus Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 In my own town, in a music store that does not carry Gibson, I found a yr 2000 wine-colored Classic LP on consignment!! For about $800 cheaper than the new one I'd found earlier at the Guitar Center in another city!!!! (that ebony classic for $1999 at GC I had posted about earlier, as having cracks or frets/marks-showing-through-the-binding(?), I just didn't feel the GC one was what I completely "sound", for some unknown reason. Many of you folks urged caution as well--thanks! So I stumbled on this LP which was on consignment for only $1300 (DANG!!!)....that fell through an hour after I looked at it in the store here in town (The sales guy called to let me know the deal fell through. (YAY!!). My guitar buds went with me, and all approved of its tone, build, etc. I'm assuming it has the 500T/496r pickups, but I really don't know how to ID these yet. So I pick it up today(payday) after work! I'll try to get some pics up this weekend. Its a beautiful machine. Seems like a good and lucky deal. Thanks again for all your help guys. Ciao, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPguitarman Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 In my own town' date=' in a music store that does not carry Gibson, I found a yr 2000 wine-colored Classic LP on consignment!! For about $800 cheaper than the new one I'd found earlier at the Guitar Center in another city!!!! (that ebony classic for $1999 at GC I had posted about earlier, as having cracks or frets/marks-showing-through-the-binding(?), I just didn't feel the GC one was what I completely "sound", for some unknown reason. Many of you folks urged caution as well--thanks! So I stumbled on this LP which was on consignment for only $1300 (DANG!!!)....that fell through an hour after I looked at it in the store here in town (The sales guy called to let me know the deal fell through. (YAY!!). My guitar buds went with me, and all approved of its tone, build, etc. I'm assuming it has the 500T/496r pickups, but I really don't know how to ID these yet. So I pick it up today(payday) after work! I'll try to get some pics up this weekend. Its a beautiful machine. Seems like a good and lucky deal. Thanks again for all your help guys. Awesome, can't wait to see pics. If its a Classic it most likely has open 500T/496r pickups. Nice and hot. If its a Classic Antiuque it has open '57 Classics. A Classic will have plain top and greenish inlays. An Antique would have a flame top and pearlish color inlays. Either one is a great guitar. Ciao, John[/quote'] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPguitarman Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 In my own town' date=' in a music store that does not carry Gibson, I found a yr 2000 wine-colored Classic LP on consignment!! For about $800 cheaper than the new one I'd found earlier at the Guitar Center in another city!!!! (that ebony classic for $1999 at GC I had posted about earlier, as having cracks or frets/marks-showing-through-the-binding(?), I just didn't feel the GC one was what I completely "sound", for some unknown reason. Many of you folks urged caution as well--thanks! So I stumbled on this LP which was on consignment for only $1300 (DANG!!!)....that fell through an hour after I looked at it in the store here in town (The sales guy called to let me know the deal fell through. (YAY!!). My guitar buds went with me, and all approved of its tone, build, etc. I'm assuming it has the 500T/496r pickups, but I really don't know how to ID these yet. So I pick it up today(payday) after work! I'll try to get some pics up this weekend. Its a beautiful machine. Seems like a good and lucky deal. Thanks again for all your help guys. Ciao, John[/quote'] Awesome, can't wait to see pics. If its a Classic it most likely has open 500T/496r pickups. Nice and hot. If its a Classic Antiuque it has open '57 Classics. A Classic will have plain top and greenish inlays. An Antique would have a flame top and pearlish color inlays. Either one is a great guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Lotus Posted March 2, 2009 Author Share Posted March 2, 2009 Well here it is! Sounds killer and I'm stoked!!!!! Got it for about $1300 in great condition. Assuming its the 500T/496r pickup combo. (How does one ID pickups anyway?) Also, I'd appreciate anyone letting me know just what kind of top this would be called? Flame? Quilted? I'm studying as we speak. Ciao Bambinos! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MI_Canuck Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 beautiful!! congrats Black Lotus!! love the wine red!!!... reminds a bit of a dark fire (which - since you're a synth guy - could be your next move... with all it's tuning and modeling capabilities... ;) oh and looks way cool without a pickguard, imo... cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Lotus Posted March 2, 2009 Author Share Posted March 2, 2009 Thanks MI_Canuck! I'm sweating less now that someone more experiences thinks its ok. Yep, Dark Fire was my first interest when I started looking into LPs. $$ was the parameter though. No matter, I'm happy with this one for now. Yeah, a pickguard came with it, but I ain't doing anything for a while, if at all. Now I have to learn how to play! :-) Ta, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJustice Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Well here it is! Sounds killer and I'm stoked!!!!! Congratulations! (How does one ID pickups anyway?) Apparently' date=' Gibson doesn't make their pickups with any type markings. Perhaps [i']some of them[/i] can be identified by their mechanical construction, but most would require careful listening tests and/or extensive measuring. Flame? Flame it is - of the very nice variety too :- DJ -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJustice Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Dark Fire was my first interest when I started looking into LPs. IMO, you're better off with your existing LP and a hex pickup with a (Roland GK) 13 pin connector. The 13 pin interface is now an established standard (you can even get it as an option for the Dark Fire). Then you can pick and choose hexaphonic MIDI/audio interfaces, modellers, synths etc.. As mentioned, check out that VG-99... DJ -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elantric Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Black Lotus - Nice flame top you have there! Yes it does remind me of my Dark Fire FWIW - I'm moderator for the Roland VG-99 forums. www.vguitarforums.com - I'm "sustainiac" over there - check it out if you have any questions on VG-99. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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