Mark Lee Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Has anyone seen an electric L5 without a cutaway? http://www.guitarecollection.com/images/upload/musee/guitare_16895875257.JPG SWEET! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 The L-5 was introduced in 1923, although a much different guitar than "modern" version. The body size was increased to the current 17" in 1935. It had all it's current appointments by '39 or '40. The first cutaway came out in 1939, but the non-cutaway model continued to be made through 1958. The "CES" (cutaway-electric-spanish) version was offered beginning in 1951, and by '57 it had humbuckers and a tune-o-matic. So from 1951 through 1956 the non-cutaway, non-humbucker "ES" model was available. One reference book I have shows a little over 100 non-cutaways being built during this time period in either sunburst or natural, but does not break out how many of them were "ES" models or which finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenderman Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 ...So from 1951 through 1956 the non-cutaway' date=' non-humbucker "CES" model was available. One reference book I have shows a little over 100 non-cutaways being built during this time period in either sunburst or natural, but does not break out how many of them were "ES" models or which finish. [/quote'] hmmmmmm, i somehow missed L-5 ES guitars. i have the L-5 book by Ingram and i don't remember seeing any info on non-cut electric model. i always assumed that non-cuts were all acoustic and that electric version was reserved only for cutaway models. i have never seen such guitar before either. if i saw the guitar in the picture prior to reading this thread i'd swear that it's after market/modification job. but it is theoretically possible that even L-5 ES existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Hi guys, I just found this forum, and this is one of the first threads that caught my eye. Looking forward to checking things out further. I don't think it's correct that electric noncut L5's were ever a standard Gibson offering, but you never know about custom orders. Regarding the above L5, the main red flag for me is the placement of the knobs (not in the usual Gibson pattern). At any rate, I have seen one other non-cut electric L5, which I had seen either at Gruhn's site or on eBay (can't recall now), and which eventually turned up again at Archtop.com, where it was sold awhile back... Read about it here: 1947 L-5E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Lee Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 What's so unusual about the tone and volume knob placement? it looks pretty standard in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 What's so unusual about the tone and volume knob placement? it looks pretty standard in my opinion. Compare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Lee Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 Yeah there is a definite difference with the controlls placement. Perchance it was custom ordered without the cutaway and with the different controll placement. I doubt that it has had aftermarket pickups installed, everyone knows that the acoustic non cutawaay L5's areworth a small fortune and suh modifications would surely decrease the value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pohatu771 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 The dual-pickup doesn't look right to me. I'm hardly an expert, but the P-90 at the bridge is larger than the one at the neck, as if it is a more recent addition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Lee Posted March 26, 2009 Author Share Posted March 26, 2009 The bridge pickup P-90s are bigger because they have more windings and a higher output Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 The dual-pickup doesn't look right to me. I'm hardly an expert' date=' but the P-90 at the bridge is larger than the one at the neck, as if it is a more recent addition.[/quote'] It's an optical illusion in that photo. All P-90s are the same size but the 'dogear' style as used on hollowbodies (held in place by two screws) aren't height adjustable. Due to the neck angle and bridge height the bridge pickup needs to be higher off the body so there is a spacer under it. The spacer is slightly larger than the pickup itself, hence the illusion of a larger pickup. Here's an ES-295 that shows the spacer quite clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobv Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Does the toggle switch location look curious to anybody else? Knob position doesn't "feel" right, either. Aren't you glad you asked for all our gut reactions? Ok let's check some references since my impressions alone aren't worth spit. I just checked Gruhn's and there's no electric noncutaway L5's there. Nor are there any non-cutaway electric archtops with plain block inlays (as opposed to double-paralellogram or fancy inlays). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Lee Posted March 27, 2009 Author Share Posted March 27, 2009 "Plain Block Inlays" is an oxymoron (it should be anyway) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Not only is the volume/tone knob placement wrong, but the knobs on the bass side of the f-hole are much further from the bridge than is standard. I say this because another possibility here would have been for someone to have added a bridge pickup (and a toggle switch) to an instrument that had already been custom-ordered from Gibson with one pickup (a la the Archtop.com example I linked to above). So, although that relatively narrow looking P-90 (*) might have been an original custom-ordered pickup from the 40's (the placement in terms of the distance from the end of the fingerboard looks similar to the '47), I'd say that's very unlikely due to the odd knob placement. * I'm not sure I completely agree with Larry re the P-90 size thing. Although I totally agree with his comment about the support rings on bridge pickups making them appear larger than the neck pickups (or middle pickups on an ES-5), I do believe there were some early P-90's that were slightly narrower. I also agree with bobv that the toggle placement looks curious (too low). Mark, although old acoustic non-cuts are valuable, they're not as valuable as the electrics; plus, guitars have been modified/butchered/"boogered" for years and years. Many, many people have modified fine guitars whether they knew they were valuable or not (L5's and other fine archtops were never all that cheap). A lot of musicians have modified L5's over the years. I've seen quite a few non-cut archtops that had added pickups (and it's sad how often the work is unprofessional and obvious). Years and years ago I remember seeing a 1951 noncut Super 400 with two humbuckers in a Guitar Trader inventory list. This was one of my first encounters with a high end guitar that had been modified. It struck me as strange then, and it still does... but then I'm an old-fashioned purist as well as a musician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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