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Les Paul Custom 20th Anni rare back headstock


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Guest Farnsbarns

Do you have a single shred of proof that shows a 1974 LPC's value is affected "20%" or "a bit more than that" by not having the original tuners?

 

No, because it probably isn't. A 1974 limited run, 20th anniversary LPC is though.

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...How many dead mint 1974 LPC (with or without the silly inlay) do you see? Most guitars have been played and have dents and dings and things repaired, fixed or replaced....

Very few - indeed they might even be considered to be quite rare - hence the hefty price premium for an all-original guitar in "dead" mint condition. Q.E.D.

And why do you say the inlay is "silly"? What about the inlay strikes you as being "silly"?......eusa_think.gif

 

....listening to you bleat away....

I never "bleat". Nope. Not me. It just isn't the done thing......eusa_snooty.gif

 

...I've been looking at 20th's for sale and the ones for sale right now range from around $ 2,000 (neck repair and modifications like 3rd pickup) to close to $6,000....

Let me guess; the ones which are three times the price of the others are more original and in better condition than the cheap ones? Q.E.D. Again......msp_smile.gif

 

...Almost $6,000 for that guitar? Good luck buddy....

To whom is this remark made? No-one here is tying to sell a guitar......eusa_think.gif

 

...Do you have an example of a 20th anniversary guitar that has had its value affected an "awful lot" by having non original tuners on it?....

This one, which works out at $6,206 (plus $181 for shipping), has original tuners;

https://reverb.com/u...AQ&hfid=4936795

If, as you claim, some on the market for $5,000 have had a tuner swap then perhaps having its original tuners raises this instrument's value by over $1,200?......eusa_think.gif

 

...if it's that important to you to have original tuners....

It's not even remotely important to me. I have never once claimed nor even suggested that having original tuners was important to me......msp_smile.gif

 

..."I would say something factual here but you can't argue with stupid" is a completely passive aggressive thing to say to someone...

Are you saying you saw the word 'stupid' in this post and automatically thought; "Ah! This means me!"?......eusa_think.gif

 

Pip.

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Guest Farnsbarns

 

This one, which works out at $6,206 (plus $181 for shipping), has original tuners;

https://reverb.com/u...AQ&hfid=4936795

If, as you claim, some on the market for $5,000 have had a tuner swap then perhaps having its original tuners raises this instrument's value by over $1,200?....

 

That's very interesting Pippy. Thanks.

 

Tell me, approximately what percentage is $1200 of $6206?

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Tell me, approximately what percentage is $1200 of $6206?

I think it's approximately 19.33612632935869%, Farns.

Can we call it 20% seeing as we're mates? Quite a slice of the overall pie just for having original tuners, wouldn't you say?

 

Speaking (as you were) of possible future TV shows; has the title "You Can't Argue With Stupid!" been used yet, do you know?......eusa_think.gif......

 

Pip.

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Guest Farnsbarns

I think it's approximately 19.33612632935869%, Farns.

Can we call it 20% seeing as we're mates? Quite a slice of the overall pie just for having original tuners, wouldn't you say?

 

Speaking (as you were) of possible future TV shows; has the title "You Can't Argue With Stupid!" been used yet, do you know?......eusa_think.gif......

 

Pip.

 

Hmmmm, well, we really should follow standard convention and round down from less than a half so we should say 19% if we want a round number.

 

Damn it! I was wrong again. I feel it's important that I acknowledge that.

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...we really should follow standard convention and round down from less than a half so we should say 19% if we want a round number....

Just as you please, Farns. 19% it is.

Or, as you use the term 'half', would '1/5th' appeal to you at all? Roughly speaking, of course.

 

One other way to appreciate the merits of originality would be to consider the issue from the viewpoint of the $5,000 instrument.

In this case the figure of $6,200 for the guitar with original tuners can be said to have appreciated by some 24% in value by comparison to the first.

Shall we, therefore, say a price-hike of roughly 1/4 (if expressed as a fraction) over the tuner-modified example?

 

Sure sounds like an "awful lot" to me for standard, non-replaced, tuners. But then again; I'm not a collector so these things are of little interest to me outside of the factual angle. I'm more interested as guitars as players' instruments and as I said back in post #14 IMO the OP's instrument is a very nice player's guitar.

 

Pip.

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Guest Farnsbarns

I don't know why our friend keeps writing an "awful lot" in quotes. Who's said that? A page back I said "quite a lot". He even quoted my post later so I can only assume someone else said it was an awful lot, I wouldn't want to think he was embellishing that to argue his erroneous position.

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I don't know why our friend keeps writing an "awful lot" in quotes. Who's said that? A page back I said "quite a lot". He even quoted my post later so I can only assume someone else said it was an awful lot, I wouldn't want to think he was embellishing that to argue his erroneous position.

 

How would "an awful lot" be an "embellishment" over "quite a lot"?

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Just as you please, Farns. 19% it is.

Or, as you use the term 'half', would '1/5th' appeal to you at all? Roughly speaking, of course.

 

One other way to appreciate the merits of originality would be to consider the issue from the viewpoint of the $5,000 instrument.

In this case the figure of $6,200 for the guitar with original tuners can be said to have appreciated by some 24% in value by comparison to the first.

Shall we, therefore, say a price-hike of roughly 1/4 (if expressed as a fraction) over the tuner-modified example?

 

Sure sounds like an "awful lot" to me for standard, non-replaced, tuners. But then again; I'm not a collector so these things are of little interest to me outside of the factual angle. I'm more interested as guitars as players' instruments and as I said back in post #14 IMO the OP's instrument is a very nice player's guitar.

 

Pip.

 

Uh huh. Like I asked do you have examples that prove 20% of a guitar's value is based on original tuners? Of course you don't.

 

And I called the inlay sillly because it is, it's just an inlay. 20th anniversary LPC aren't rare but for some reason a little inlay is supposed to make them worth thousands more than a regular LPC? Sure. Like I said 20th anniversary models seem at least as common as a regular 1974 LPC and from the examples of seen the writing on the inlay can actually be rubbed off lol.

 

Were you affected by the other guy's head injury too?

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You are both right.

Players don't care much and collectors care a great deal.

Better playing guitars can often be cheaper than better looking guitars. Plus ça change...

 

And I +'d him up so we're all back at square onehundredandnineteen. Don't really know why he was -'d in the first place. Most odd.

 

Pip.

 

For me, this sums it all up. I have my guitars to play. My 81 V has wear on the top from my forearm, wear on the back from belt/whatever, worn frets and DiMarzio pickup in the bridge position. Those things affected the value of $700.00 or so out of $3000 that it appraised for. It also has Schaller straplocks on it, a fairly worn bridge and tailpiece and has been played.

 

Current appraised value, for insurance, $3000.00. Appraisal in original condition, $3700.00. There's that magic 20% or so difference (18.9%) for being non original and mine isn't a Les Paul, nor as old but was only made for two years. I'm going to say Pip is right on this one, as far as appraisal and collector's worth goes.

 

As a player, I'd rather play my guitar that's been broken in and when I buy a guitar, it's as a player, not a collector. If they're worth more than I paid for them, cool. But, I won't be selling any of them to flip them and make more money. They're players, not showcasers. In that, as a player, I'll agree with AllenJason, except for his other posts where he is getting snippy with people. If I were buying that guitar to play, tuners aren't a big deal. If it plays and sounds good, that's what is important to me. I like the guitar and hope you're happy with it and you get many years out of that wonderful guitar. Congratulations!

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That's very interesting Pippy. Thanks.

 

Tell me, approximately what percentage is $1200 of $6206?

 

How about you show an actual comparison? Instead of making up numbers? Thanks. Also .......why don't you show the prices they actually sold for, not the asking prices? BTW your posts are becoming more and more nonsensical and difficult to read. You don't have to do the whole "copy and reply line by line" routine.

 

As far as your "you cant argue with stupid" comment being aimed at me.....you were replying to me....you've been replying to me. Are you so passive aggressive you can't even admit that that comment was a shot at me lol? You're passive aggressive dude. Look at your Chip and Dale routine with Farns here. Own it.

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For me, this sums it all up. I have my guitars to play. My 81 V has wear on the top from my forearm, wear on the back from belt/whatever, worn frets and DiMarzio pickup in the bridge position. Those things affected the value of $700.00 or so out of $3000 that it appraised for. It also has Schaller straplocks on it, a fairly worn bridge and tailpiece and has been played.

 

Current appraised value, for insurance, $3000.00. Appraisal in original condition, $3700.00. There's that magic 20% or so difference (18.9%) for being non original and mine isn't a Les Paul, nor as old but was only made for two years. I'm going to say Pip is right on this one, as far as appraisal and collector's worth goes.

 

As a player, I'd rather play my guitar that's been broken in and when I buy a guitar, it's as a player, not a collector. If they're worth more than I paid for them, cool. But, I won't be selling any of them to flip them and make more money. They're players, not showcasers. In that, as a player, I'll agree with AllenJason, except for his other posts where he is getting snippy with people. If I were buying that guitar to play, tuners aren't a big deal. If it plays and sounds good, that's what is important to me. I like the guitar and hope you're happy with it and you get many years out of that wonderful guitar. Congratulations!

 

Obviously a guitar that is worn and played is worth less than one that hasn't. But if your guitar was in brand new condition except for changed tuners it wouldn't affect the value, it for damn sure wouldn't affect it 20%.

 

Again, it's like a car....if you have some rare collectible car.....say a 65 Mustang originality matters. If you have a 2005 Civic, nobody cares about originality.

 

These guys have gone off the deep end because I said no one cares about original tuners on the average guitar which says more about them than I could. It's hardly a controversial statement lol.

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...do you have examples that prove 20% of a guitar's value is based on original tuners?...

Actually I was referring to your own examples which you provided earlier;

 

...the ones for sale right now range from around $ 2,000......to close to $6,000......some of the the ones in the $5,000 range don't have original tuners...

 

Pip.

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Obviously a guitar that is worn and played is worth less than one that hasn't. But if your guitar was in brand new condition except for changed tuners it wouldn't affect the value, it for damn sure wouldn't affect it 20%.

 

Again, it's like a car....if you have some rare collectible car.....say a 65 Mustang originality matters. If you have a 2005 Civic, nobody cares about originality.

 

These guys have gone off the deep end because I said no one cares about original tuners on the average guitar which says more about them than I could. It's hardly a controversial statement lol.

 

I don't know about that. It might. Some people, particularly collectors, are finicky about that sort of thing. It very well could on a 20th Anniversary Les Paul Custom. A regular Les Paul Standard/Deluxe/whatever maybe not as much. Maybe not as much as a regular Custom. 20th Anniversary special edition, maybe more than usual. I personally don't know about the collectability of this guitar and edition. As a player, I think most people wouldn't care. Some sure do though. Would I pay 20% less for a guitar without original stuff on it? Not if I liked the guitar. I might bring it up to knock a little down off the selling price, just to get a deal. We don't know. Maybe Pip works for Kelly Blue Book or is just well read about such things, moreso than I am.

 

I think "people" are "going off the deep end" because of your perceived attitude, real, intentional, or imagined. I don't think anyone here can claim to know it all or have the best opinion or be the best player. I see this as a place to share and learn, not argue and banter back and forth. People's opinions are definitely going to differ.

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Actually I was referring to your own examples which you provided earlier;

 

 

 

Pip.

 

No, you made up numbers about guitars. You claimed the difference in price was down to tuners. Which is absurd and there is zero evidence for.

 

Like I asked (multiple times) do you have any examples where different tuners have reduced the value of a guitar 20%?

 

We both know the answer is no.

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I don't know about that. It might. Some people, particularly collectors, are finicky about that sort of thing. It very well could on a 20th Anniversary Les Paul Custom. A regular Les Paul Standard/Deluxe/whatever maybe not as much. Maybe not as much as a regular Custom. 20th Anniversary special edition, maybe more than usual. I personally don't know about the collectability of this guitar and edition. As a player, I think most people wouldn't care. Some sure do though. Would I pay 20% less for a guitar without original stuff on it? Not if I liked the guitar. I might bring it up to knock a little down off the selling price, just to get a deal. We don't know. Maybe Pip works for Kelly Blue Book or is just well read about such things, moreso than I am.

 

I think "people" are "going off the deep end" because of your perceived attitude, real, intentional, or imagined. I don't think anyone here can claim to know it all or have the best opinion or be the best player. I see this as a place to share and learn, not argue and banter back and forth. People's opinions are definitely going to differ.

 

I was going to say something factual here but you can't argue with stupid, so I won't.

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Actually I was referring to your own examples which you provided earlier...
No, you made up numbers about guitars. You claimed the difference in price was down to tuners....

blink.gif

 

...the ones for sale right now range from around $ 2,000......to close to $6,000......some of the the ones in the $5,000 range don't have original tuners...

Pip.

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blink.gif

 

 

Pip.

 

Sorry, I don't speak smiley face.

 

You weren't claiming the differences in price were down to tuners and just making up values?

 

 

"This one, which works out at $6,206 (plus $181 for shipping), has original tuners;

https://reverb.com/u...AQ&hfid=4936795

If, as you claim, some on the market for $5,000 have had a tuner swap then perhaps having its original tuners raises this instrument's value by over $1,200?...."

 

Did you forget you wrote that or something?

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I was going to say something factual here but you can't argue with stupid, so I won't.

 

Ok, so now you're going after me and calling me stupid? Thanks.

 

Can't argue with stupid. Can't fix stupid, not even with duct tape. But, it's fun trying if you start at the mouth.

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Ok, so now you're going after me and calling me stupid? Thanks.

 

Can't argue with stupid. Can't fix stupid, not even with duct tape. But, it's fun trying if you start at the mouth.

 

So you took offense to that huh?

 

That's a quote, it's what Pip said to me. Very passive aggressive.

 

See what I did there?

 

You're the one telling me I have the attitude problem. So why is it you can take offense to "can't argue with stupid" but when I do it's me who has the attitude problem?

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So you took offense to that huh?

 

That's a quote, it's what Pip said to me. Very passive aggressive.

 

See what I did there?

 

You're the one telling me I have the attitude problem. So why is it you can take offense to "can't argue with stupid" but when I do it's me who has the attitude problem?

 

Nah, people on forums/message boards can never offend me because I just don't care that much if someone's opinion differs from mine or if someone tries to insult me or get a rise out of me. That's why I said thanks. The other part was just me contributing to the arguing and fixing stupid comment with a little humor. Or, so I thought it was. Silence is golden. Duct tape is silver. That sort of thing. Things don't always get interpreted or perceived the same way in type vs. voice or in person.

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Nah, people on forums/message boards can never offend me because I just don't care that much if someone's opinion differs from mine or if someone tries to insult me or get a rise out of me. That's why I said thanks. The other part was just me contributing to the arguing and fixing stupid comment with a little humor. Or, so I thought it was. Silence is golden. Duct tape is silver. That sort of thing. Things don't always get interpreted or perceived the same way in type vs. voice or in person.

 

So why did you ask if I was going after you and calling you stupid then?

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