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Re-Importing a guitar with a Rosewood fretboard

Tman

By Tman
in Gibson Acoustic

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jt

jt

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From Peach Guitars: Just another update for you, so the shipment has stalled at customs requiring an absolutely horrible form from the US department of agriculture that has given me a nose bleed, but is now done and back with UPS, so hopefully that'll be the end of the matter now.

 

Ah, the seller forgot to include a Lacey Act declaration.

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Tman

Tman

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Is this what all guitars are going to require for out of country shipping? Sure hope you like what you are buying Tman.. I hate to think of how the return works?

 

No kidding right? My understanding is that only those guitars containing rare wood including Indian Rosewood that falls into the game and fish commission list of regulated rare plants and animals. I assume maple and richlite guitars won't need it.

 

If I really don't like it, it ain't being returned. I'm sure I can sell it on Reverb. I'm thinking I'm going to love it though. My wife has already informed me that worst case, after all that has gone on, we'll frame it and hang it on the wall. [crying]

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slimt

slimt

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Dhanner. I think it applies to all guitars being transported whether as a sidekick travelling or buying and selling. I cannot even go accross the canada u.s border without proper documentation. Even if im visiting. The rules have changed 100%

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dhanners623

dhanners623

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Just so I'm clear on the concept -- if I'm traveling to the he U.S. with my J-35 this summer (I'll carry it as carry-on) I'm not going to be affected by this, am I? It's just for guitars being sold and shipped, right?

 

Yikes....

 

This article seems to indicate I'll be ok, since the guitar is for personal use. https://reverb.com/news/new-cites-regulations-for-all-rosewood-species

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jt

jt

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Brazilian rosewood and Indian rosewood are treated the same with respect to CITES? I know what happens when I assume. [crying]

No. Brazilian is on Appendix I, the most restrictive. All other rosewoods are on Appendix II. I go into more detail on the podcast.

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Tman

Tman

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Received a note from UPS that it is still held in a warehouse in England pending some further action. I'm trying to find out the further action. UPS tells me that everything is ready to go in the US. [crying]

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Tman

Tman

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Hope everything follows through for you.

 

Thanks very much slimt, I'm hoping for more news tomorrow.

 

What Rosewood is the fretboard on my 1961 double cut, twin pickup, solid mahogany Melody Maker?

 

I have no idea, maybe the professor does, but I will say that melody maker sounds bada$$. My first Gibson was a double cut cherry red melody maker. What I would do to have that back in my life. [thumbup]

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jt

jt

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What Rosewood is the fretboard on my 1961 double cut, twin pickup, solid mahogany Melody Maker?

Gibson ceased using Brazilian rosewood for the backs and sides of acoustics at some point in 1935.

 

Gibson did continue using Brazilian rosewood for fingerboards for anotehr 3 decades, switching to other rosewood circa 1965.

 

Of course, Gibson being Gibson, there are many exceptions.

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Hogeye

Hogeye

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Gibson ceased using Brazilian rosewood for the backs and sides of acoustics at some point in 1935.

 

Gibson did continue using Brazilian rosewood for fingerboards for anotehr 3 decades, switching to other rosewood circa 1965.

 

Of course, Gibson being Gibson, there are many exceptions.

 

 

Gibson Montana did use Brazilian for guitars up to May of 1993. I own a Brazilian back and sides Ray Whitley Made in Montana. Gibson Montana has used a lot of Brazilian. I just sold a Brazilian A.J. that was a 1992. The wood on both of these guitars looks completely different. Most guitar experts would be hard pressed to identify them as the same species. I have a Songwriter deluxe cut-away that is Indian Rosewood and it looks like what most people would think Brazilian should look like.

 

I really don't know any customs official that can identify Brazilian by looking at it. Even guitar experts have to test the wood to find out if it is truly Brazilian. I would imagine if there is any question as to what species the wood is they will win the debate. My guess is that if you don't identify the wood when the guitar is shipped they won't even think about it. I live in Montana and we have a long border with Canada with many stations and I have been thru them and back many times. No one ever asked me the species of wood the guitar was made from. They don't have a wood expert or any testing equipment of any kind at the border crossings on Montana. It can take months for experts to test the wood.

 

I won't trust the information I just gave as I can only imagine if there is any question they will win the debate. I don't know if a guitar needs to be documented as to wood species but If so I would just put down walnut and I bet you would be just fine. Most people outside the industry couldn't tell you the difference between a 6 or twelve string let alone the wood used in the construction.

 

Anyone out there willing to test my theory with their $10k guitar? How about it Slim want to buy my Whitley and drive it across the border this summer?

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jt

jt

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Gibson Montana did use Brazilian for guitars up to May of 1993. I own a Brazilian back and sides Ray Whitley Made in Montana. Gibson Montana has used a lot of Brazilian. I just sold a Brazilian A.J. that was a 1992. The wood on both of these guitars looks completely different. Most guitar experts would be hard pressed to identify them as the same species. I have a Songwriter deluxe cut-away that is Indian Rosewood and it looks like what most people would think Brazilian should look like.

 

I really don't know any customs official that can identify Brazilian by looking at it. Even guitar experts have to test the wood to find out if it is truly Brazilian. I would imagine if there is any question as to what species the wood is they will win the debate. My guess is that if you don't identify the wood when the guitar is shipped they won't even think about it. I live in Montana and we have a long border with Canada with many stations and I have been thru them and back many times. No one ever asked me the species of wood the guitar was made from. They don't have a wood expert or any testing equipment of any kind at the border crossings on Montana. It can take months for experts to test the wood.

 

I won't trust the information I just gave as I can only imagine if there is any question they will win the debate. I don't know if a guitar needs to be documented as to wood species but If so I would just put down walnut and I bet you would be just fine. Most people outside the industry couldn't tell you the difference between a 6 or twelve string let alone the wood used in the construction.

 

Anyone out there willing to test my theory with their $10k guitar? How about it Slim want to buy my Whitley and drive it across the border this summer?

 

My bad. I was referring to cessation of use in vintage guitars (the question was about a 1961 guitar). As we all know, Gibson did, for a while, use Brazilian rosewood on some reissues.

 

As for international border crossings, I've heard of only a handful of problems with hand-carried guitars (most countries apply the CITES personal luggage exeption to Appendix I species, like Brazilian rosewood, but the US does not).

 

But, I can cite you many cases of seized, shipped guitars.

 

On edit: Oh, and my podcast covered this issue in detail.

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slimt

slimt

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Still held in Warehouse in England. Still don't know why. AND I may be charged warehouse fees. Now that would be a real sh!tter and eat into the savings.

 

 

I would be contacting UPS here.. and see what the hold up is... and what can be done on your end to get it shipped..

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Tman

Tman

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I would be contacting UPS here.. and see what the hold up is... and what can be done on your end to get it shipped..

 

I have been. I actually found someone in the organization (UPS) that writes me back and she is trying to help. The guy at Peach guitars was on holiday last week so I am hoping that it will et sorted this week. This will work out.

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j45nick

j45nick

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I really dont know why this wood thing has tobe on pre 2017 builds. The damage has already been done .

 

 

For the same reason you can't buy an elephant tusk that came from an elephant that's already dead. Unless you control all the trade, it's hard to control any of it.

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slimt

slimt

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For the same reason you can't buy an elephant tusk that came from an elephant that's already dead. Unless you control all the trade, it's hard to control any of it.

 

understood..

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jt

jt

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Hmm. Not complex. The seller needs to fill out 3 simple, available on the Internet forms: 1) export permit, 2) import permit, 3) [if shipping into the US] Lacey Act declaration. Individual sellers, giant manufacturers, and those in size in between, manage this daily. The seller here didn't know about the Lacey Act declaration, but still promised delivery. Stunning. And very simple to correct. There are many, many online, how-to articles (many of them mine) that are easily accessible.

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